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Mapping the often forgotten 36,371 people that have died on the roads since 1999

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northwichcat

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That includes all accidents on the road including pedestrians being hit and moped/motorcycle deaths. It can't be used as a comparison to rail in the form it's been given in.
 

AndrewP

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This really makes me think - the number of dangerous roads I seem to drive on.

Remember that every dot on this is a tragedy for one or more family.

Yes rail accidents are more newsworthy but that is because of their rareness but how often does your rail journey involve a road trip at one end or the other.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I have doubts about the accuracy of this; search PO39... there is an accident on West Wight dated 25th June 2005 where the conditions are described as "snow and high winds".

Either the date is wrong or the conditions are wrong.

Screenshot to follow when I'm at home later.
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Here is the screenshot; I hope it is readable.
 

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142094

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From what I have read previously this only shows accidents reported to the Police and also ones which come under Killed or Seriously Injured statistics (to have an SI you have to spend at least one night in hospital).
 

SS4

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Often forgotten?! Hardly a day goes by when a road death is not mentioned on the news!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If anything I'd say that figure is a lot lower than we've been led to believe over the years, it certainly is in my local area!
 

ushawk

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Think they been often forgotten by a couple of days after they have been killed, no one ever seems to remember what happened.
 

Metroland

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Interesting that Guardian map, hardly a main road in the country with a history of accidents of some kind, just in the last 10 years!

Really I said forgotten, because Ladbroke Grove, Potters Bar, etc are household names. Most enthusiasts know most of the names of the serious rail accidents going back to Victorian times, and there are many books published. Yet, the tragedy is just as great for road victims, although most of us are oblivious to the history of roads just a few miles from our homes.
 

Nym

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Well, theres many an accident where pedestians are walking home on the M61 and get run over, and theres been a campaign to light the motorway... I think the're thinking the wrong way round there.
 

jopsuk

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Road accidents, including fatal, are aday to day occurence. Rail accidents are exceptional. That's why they get more attention when they happen.
 

jon0844

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While there are badly designed roads, and the potential for some temporary hazards (ice, oil etc) most accidents will be down to a driver doing something wrong - or a fault with the vehicle.

On the railway, most accidents will probably come down to the track and not driver error. You can pretty much control the railway and do everything to reduce the chance of an accident - but a car accident could happen at any time. You could be caught up in one without having a chance to avoid it - like a car coming towards you on the other side of the road swerving to avoid something and hitting you head on.

I can see why a rail crash would be bigger news than something that always had the potential to happen. In effect, every day you drive you are doing so defensively to avoid an accident from happening.
 

142094

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All roads for the past 30 odd years have been designed to standards laid down by the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges, and the UK has the second best safety record in the world for road accidents. However of course many roads were built well before these standards and are not actually 'designed' so to speak. The Govt has invested millions in road safety, which is why numbers are comparatively low at around 2,500 per annum. Interestingly the safest roads are IIRC in Denmark - but they take a different view. They simply say "Here is the road, it is up to you how you drive on it (within reason)". So basically it is your own fault if you don't drive according to the road layout and conditions.

When driving we are in control of the steering etc, so there is a sense that if we do something silly we are going to get hurt. However, on the railways, you pay for a service and someone else does the driving/takes care of the safety, so naturally there is a higher expectation for safety levels. That is why when there is an accident, the railway seems to suffer a lot more.

To put things into perspective:

At Hatfield, 4 people died, but in the M5 crash this year, 7 died. But coverage and scrutiny was IMo higher for Hatfield than the M5 crash.

(Probably is a better example but all I can think of at the minute.)
 

yorksrob

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When driving we are in control of the steering etc, so there is a sense that if we do something silly we are going to get hurt. However, on the railways, you pay for a service and someone else does the driving/takes care of the safety, so naturally there is a higher expectation for safety levels. That is why when there is an accident, the railway seems to suffer a lot more.

Indeed. I have heard this argument used in the media, and it always strikes me (no pun intended) that no one ever seems to point out the obvious flaw in it. That is, that the motorist may "feel" in control but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is. He could be driving perfectly responsibly when a juggernaught ploughs into him. Plus, there are car passengers who most certainly arent in control, before you get to pedestrians etc.
 

Metroland

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I would say if a professional road driver (EG Trucker, bus driver etc) ploughed into other people and killed them (if it was no fault of their own) it is equal to the scandal of railway professionals not doing their job and killing people.

Obviously, as it's been pointed out, train crashes and relatively rare, but there is no doubt there is disproportionate reporting of rail accidents. Certainly in the case for looking for scapegoats, someone to blame. The railway tends to get looked at as 'a whole system', where the roads (although there is overall standards) tend to focus on drivers if there is an accident. Compare this hysteria of significant railway accidents and the calls for sacking and people to resign compared to motorway pile ups. There tends to be very few, if any, calls for officials from councils, the Highways agency, car manufactures heads to be put on the line, even if there might be significant underlying design issues.

I also disagree you can control the railway and do everything to reduce the chances of an accident any more than a road. Indeed, 80% of incidents on the railways are down to communication failures, IE one party not fully understanding the other because messages have been confused or misunderstood. There's always the hazard of vandalism, level crossings, trees blowing down across the line and so on. The reason there are so few railway accidents is built in safety systems, standards and staff training/professionalism, rather than the erroneous belief (by many members of the public) it's all very straightforward.

In other words, we seem to accept lower standards for the roads and are much more willing to chance things. If you or your friends/family ever have the misfortune to get caught up in a road accident, you will be relatively forgotten compared to victims of a plane or train crash.
 
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