March - Wisbech reopening

[Johnuk123]

http://www.cambstimes.co.uk/news/co...ders_insist_they_can_make_it_happen_1_3423942

The latest cost estimate for a new station in Wisbech has rocketed by more than £40m - but leaders still insist the case is the “strongest in a generation” and they can “make it happen”.

Despite what's been said I can't see that sort of money being spent.

 

[Bald Rick]

Whoever thought it would be £12m must have been enjoying a night or two on the sauce. Also worth noting the costs for reopening a line that is essentially in place - Tavistock campaign please note.

Don't underestimate this one, big development on the blocks in Wisbech, and an MP who will be going places in Government.

 

[johnnychips]

What is the attraction for the reopening of this line? I wouldn't have thought, with respect, March was a wonderful destination, and surely there's an easier way for Wisbechians (?) to get to somewhere like Peterborough: 51 mins on X1 bus half-hourly.

I suppose it would be quicker to Ely and Cambridge, especially if through paths could be established, than the current 90 minutes by bus and train to the latter, but is there a demand from a town of only 32 000?

 

[yorksrob]

What is the attraction for the reopening of this line? I wouldn't have thought, with respect, March was a wonderful destination, and surely there's an easier way for Wisbechians (?) to get to somewhere like Peterborough: 51 mins on X1 bus half-hourly.

I suppose it would be quicker to Ely and Cambridge, especially if through paths could be established, than the current 90 minutes by bus and train to the latter, but is there a demand from a town of only 32 000?

More than Tonbridge (pop 30340) and that managed 4,100,552 entries and exits in 2012/13.

 

[Firesprite]

Once again Cambridgeshire County Council has greatly inflated costs for the reinstatement of a rail-link. They did the same thing with Cambridge-St Ives (£400 million) so they could have their misguided bus-way (Which is not covering its running costs as the bus companies refuse to pay more in access charges).

The figure of 12 million produced by Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) I would say was about right for a eight mile branch line built for a line limit of 50 mph. The junction is already in place and out of the six public road crossing between March and Wisbech, four already have half barriers ( Which have been kept in working order by Network Rail). So what is the council figure based on?

As for usage, Stagecoach have throw in the towel as regards the 33 between March and Peterborough. By the time the bus has reached the March bypass bridge over the railway after departing March town centre, the train has already arrived in Peterborough. If you give people a faster service they will use it (journey time between Wisbich and Peterborough would be cut in half). Unemployment in the Fens is higher than average. Already the slow buses between March and Wisbich carry 100,000 people a year taken on average 40 minutes to cover the route which is very bumpy The 1st bus from Wisbich arrives to late for the 1st train to Cambridge in the morning and the last one back from March station departs two hours before the 6.35pm arrive from Cambridge. The train would take around ten minutes to travel between March and Wisbich and only 40 minutes to Cambridge if running direct. As I live only a mile outside March I do known the local support for reopening the line is there.

 

[bluenoxid]

Does anyone know if the £10m included a bridge over the A47?

 

[gazthomas]

More than Tonbridge (pop 30340) and that managed 4,100,552 entries and exits in 2012/13.

But is that a fair comparison geographically and demographically? Tonbridge has lots of London commuters.

 

[philjo]

What is the attraction for the reopening of this line? I wouldn't have thought, with respect, March was a wonderful destination, and surely there's an easier way for Wisbechians (?) to get to somewhere like Peterborough: 51 mins on X1 bus half-hourly.

I suppose it would be quicker to Ely and Cambridge, especially if through paths could be established, than the current 90 minutes by bus and train to the latter, but is there a demand from a town of only 32 000?

I think it is to encourage more commuting by rail to Cambridge as housing is very expensive there and there are limits on the city expanding further depsite new busniesses (e.g. AstraZeneca) relocating to Cambridge soon. They mentioned on the local news last night that average house prices in Wisbech are about £200k cheaper than Cambridge.

 

[yorksrob]

But is that a fair comparison geographically and demographically? Tonbridge has lots of London commuters.

I‘d say it would be unreasonable to assume that a population of 30k plus couldn‘t support a train service. Plus Cambridge and Peterborough are both quite important employment centres in their own right.

 

[Firesprite]

Does anyone know if the £10m included a bridge over the A47?

No it did not, as closing the barriers for four minutes every hour was not see as a problem. Westbound A47 traffic is often backed up passed the level crossing from the junction with the B198 into Wisbech. It is the council who are demanding a bridge.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

No it did not, as closing the barriers for four minutes every hour was not see as a problem. Westbound A47 traffic is often backed up passed the level crossing from the junction with the B198 into Wisbech. It is the council who are demanding a bridge.

Is creating a new level crossing likely to be viewed as acceptable in these days when there seems to be considerable pressure on Network Rail to remove existing crossings on safety grounds?

 

[The Planner]

It isnt really new though, it would be an upgrade of the current AOCL crossing so they can probably get around that.

 

[Tomnick]

What are they proposing for the various level crossings? Doubt the AOCL over the A47 would be allowed to remain as such, but an AHB would be unsuitable if traffic regularly queues over the crossing. If an ABCL proves unsuitable too, it'd surely have to be a full-barrier (with protecting signals and all the rest of it) which starts to push up the cost. Likewise for some of the other crossings (hand-worked gates operated by traincrew, which wouldn't do much for journey times) - would AOCL/ABCL/AHB be a possibility, or would they be expensive too?

 

[Bald Rick]

The current crossings are all technically mothballed from an operational point of view. They will all need assessing and, in my personal opinion, significantly upgrading before a regular passenger service can run up that line.

As for cost, there's an awful lot of weeding and fencing to do, before anyone has spent any money on the (not very good condition) track, level crossings (including the 15 farm crossings), the bridge over twenty foot river, a station, signals, etc.

 

[ivanhoe]

This is a prime example of how a re-opening could regenerate an a whole area. The possibility of providing better employment opportunities for the people of Wisbech must be a good idea. Would also love to know how organisations like CCC and NR come up with their costings. It's almost as if they come up with overpriced estimates to put off certain regeneration projects.

 

[Bald Rick]

Would also love to know how organisations like CCC and NR come up with their costings. It's almost as if they come up with overpriced estimates to put off certain regeneration projects.

With lots of hard work, surveys and investigation!

 

[ivanhoe]

With lots of hard work, surveys and investigation!

Of course! How silly of me!

 

[The Planner]

It will be probably overloaded with contingency to an extent but if you take that out and it over spends it will suddenly grind to a halt.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Carrying on from this thread;

... next stage of development complete, and still looking good for a business case.

Governance for Railway Investment Projects (GRIP) is Network Rail’s management and control process for delivering projects on the railway, and has eight stages. The GRIP 2 Feasibility stage has now been completed for the March to Wisbech reopening.
The GRIP 2 study looks at potential scheme costs in some detail. Including risk and optimism bias (a factor allowing for an inherent tendency for scheme costs to be underestimated at early stages of development), the cost of reopening the line between March and Wisbech is estimated to range between £70m and £111m. The costings from the GRIP 2 study informed the Outline Business Case.
The next stage of the project is for a GRIP 3 Option Selection study and a Full Business Case for the scheme to be developed. This work is currently planned to commence in the autumn of 2015.

Shame about Ely North ...

 

[Class 170101]

I don't see how Ely North Jn is an issue for the opening of the Wisbeach line as the route via Ely North is double track in this direction.

I would have said that the current layout through March Station area would be more restrictive as well as the lack of wiring on this route as I would suggest one service from Liverpool Street via Harlow and the second Cambridge cruiser service would be the ideal services to serve Wisbeach.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't see how Ely North Jn is an issue for the opening of the Wisbeach line as the route via Ely North is double track in this direction.

Because, presumably, the good folk of Wisbech (and their MP) want more than a shuttle service to March (or Peterborough), and presumably at times most people want to travel, ie peak times. Which means going to Ely. Which means going through Ely N Jn. Which is at capacity at peak times. QED.

 

[Johnuk123]

I live very close to this line and unfortunately I can't see it reopening any time soon.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't see how Ely North Jn is an issue for the opening of the Wisbeach line as the route via Ely North is double track in this direction.

The most efficient way of using capacity on a flat junction is if trains on the same route in opposite directions are scheduled to pass each other on the junction. If some routes are single leads this optimum timetable is not possible so less capacity is available even on those routes that have double leads.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Carrying on from this thread;

... next stage of development complete, and still looking good for a business case. Shame about Ely North ...

Would the Ely North problem be solved once the planned junction improvements there happen?

The BCR does seem extraordinarily good for a half hourly service considering Wisbech is quite a small town. It would definitely be good news if this line did reopen.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Because, presumably, the good folk of Wisbech (and their MP) want more than a shuttle service to March (or Peterborough), and presumably at times most people want to travel, ie peak times. Which means going to Ely. Which means going through Ely N Jn. Which is at capacity at peak times. QED.

Last I heard the MP Stephen Barclay wants a direct service to Cambridge
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I live very close to this line and unfortunately I can't see it reopening any time soon.

Hate to say it but I very much agree, it will get as far as they money being handed over when everyone will look at the floor and walk away
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I cant really see it being used if it does actually open, the First X1 bus from Wisbech to Peterborough will be cheaper and quicker and the station being miles out of town ie the other side of the A47 will make it unattractive especially to those on foot or by bike

Cant really see why they cant let the line run over the A47 and have the station where the old Sunday market used to be, the crossing is in a similar position to that of the one on the A10 at Littleport on the other fen line

 

[Argosy]

Last I heard the MP Stephen Barclay wants a direct service to Cambridge
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Hate to say it but I very much agree, it will get as far as they money being handed over when everyone will look at the floor and walk away
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I cant really see it being used if it does actually open, the First X1 bus from Wisbech to Peterborough will be cheaper and quicker and the station being miles out of town ie the other side of the A47 will make it unattractive especially to those on foot or by bike

Cant really see why they cant let the line run over the A47 and have the station where the old Sunday market used to be, the crossing is in a similar position to that of the one on the A10 at Littleport on the other fen line

Isn't there a 'ban' on new LC's?

 

[duffield]

Isn't there a 'ban' on new LC's?

I understand it's more a 'presumption against' than an outright ban.

 

[mr_jrt]

It really needs the options in the town centre to be viable, IMHO. I guess an embankment and bridge over the road would be a bit costly...

I've seen a alternative option promoting a line all the way to King's Lynn - this curves away south of the A47 to run alongside most of the way, with a single track beyond Wisbech. Yes it would enable a direct King's Lynn to Peterborough service, but again, don't see it being viable as it wouldn't serve Wisbech town centre. Is there any possibility whatsoever of reinstating a line roughly via the old Wisbech East routing? (Even if it required limited property acquisition?)

...as I see it Victoria Lodge (built on the old station site) is the primary obstacle, then it's just a few scattered buildings until you get a free run on the trackbed to Watlington.

 

[snowball]

If a bridge is needed I think it more likely that the A47 would be taken over the railway than the other way round.

 

[muddythefish]

Cambridgeshire BBC local TV reporting tonight that money for next stage of mooted Wisbech reopening will be forthcoming