Marston recovery - convicted at 17, now 22

[beesley121]

Hi guys and girls,

My son has received a debt recovery letter from Marston’s recovery asking for a total of £714.

My son dies not live at home and hasn’t got over 2 years and this letter was sent to my home address and is the first I’ve heard of this fine. When I questioned my son, he didn’t know what it was for until he called them, now he vaguely remembers what happened. He was 17 at the time and had a broken ankle which was in plaster. He hit on the train as he was late getting to the station and jumped straight on the train. The attendant then gave him a fine for not paying for a ticket before hand. He is now 22 so this happed 5 years ago and this letter has just come to my home address. No other correspondence has been recieved in that time because only I have access to our mail box

Is there any way to fight this? Surely they can’t leave it this long without and sort of communication

Any help appreciated

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi guys and girls,

My son has received a debt recovery letter from Marston’s recovery asking for a total of £714.

My son dies not live at home and hasn’t got over 2 years and this letter was sent to my home address and is the first I’ve heard of this fine. When I questioned my son, he didn’t know what it was for until he called them, now he vaguely remembers what happened. He was 17 at the time and had a broken ankle which was in plaster. He hit on the train as he was late getting to the station and jumped straight on the train. The attendant then gave him a fine for not paying for a ticket before hand. He is now 22 so this happed 5 years ago and this letter has just come to my home address. No other correspondence has been recieved in that time because only I have access to our mail box

Is there any way to fight this? Surely they can’t leave it this long without and sort of communication

Any help appreciated

What sort of "fine" is this? You mention being convicted - has this fine come about because of court proceedings? Has be actually been convicted of an offence?

 

[Snow1964]

Is this something for which he was convicted in his absence.

The fine presumably wasn't paid as didn't serve it on his home address, and a collection agency has now traced whereabouts.

This sounds like your son needs to get a solicitor to issue a document called a statutory declaration, because charge and fine was not previously known about (and I think only get 2 or 3 weeks from finding out to do this), it resets the clock back to just before court appearance time.

 

[island]

Surely they can’t leave it this long without and sort of communication

Just to note that the liability to pay a court fine does not expire even if it's not pursued for some time.

 

[pedr]

Can you confirm the exact nature of the debt which is being pursued? The question whether this is a criminal fine issued by a Magistrates' Court as the punishment for a criminal offence, or whether it's some other sort of debt is very important.

The Single Justice Procedure can't be used if the defendant is under 18 so depending on the precise dates of the incident, his birthday, and the dates of any proceedings, there may have been irregularities here but there isn't enough detail yet to work that out.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi guys and girls,

My son has received a debt recovery letter from Marston’s recovery asking for a total of £714.

My son dies not live at home and hasn’t got over 2 years and this letter was sent to my home address and is the first I’ve heard of this fine. When I questioned my son, he didn’t know what it was for until he called them, now he vaguely remembers what happened. He was 17 at the time and had a broken ankle which was in plaster. He hit on the train as he was late getting to the station and jumped straight on the train. The attendant then gave him a fine for not paying for a ticket before hand. He is now 22 so this happed 5 years ago and this letter has just come to my home address. No other correspondence has been recieved in that time because only I have access to our mail box

Is there any way to fight this? Surely they can’t leave it this long without and sort of communication

Any help appreciated

I think the best advice will come if it's possible to establish with greater clarity what has happened.

For example - has this arisen due to the following (perhaps)?

- Son boards train with no ticket 5 years ago
- Train staff issue a Penalty Fare (at that time probably £50, reduced by 50% if paid promptly and there would have been a right to Appeal a Penalty Fare which would have also prevented prosecution as an aside), son may or may not have given correct postal address when issued with the Penalty Fare
- Son ignores penalty fare and does not pay it
- Railway notes this Penalty Fare remains unpaid and eventually takes the case to court for non payment
- Son does not hear of court case due to address being wrong or son does hear of court case and chooses to ignore it
- Found guilty in absence of traveling/ boarding a train without a ticket (which they appear to have done)
- Sentence passed and court fine set or maybe debt collection order made for the unpaid Penalty Fare
- Money never paid so eventually passed to court debt collectors
- debt collectors eventually find an address for the son (they are good at this it seems!), at the OP's home and send the demand there
- demand has increased due to being dealt with at court, non payment, passed on to debt collectors etc etc

The above sequence of events is one possibility. But there are other possibilities that could have happened as to how it got to this.

Perhaps there are other details in the paperwork from Marston's that you could share with all personal details obscured for people to see and advise on.

I do not know if it is an option to inform the debt collectors the son no longer lives at the address, and they will effectively have to continue their efforts to find him - but I suspect the more they have to do that the more the sum being asked for will increase over time...

Presumably since the son has eventually recalled the incident they might be able to recall what if anything they did about the 'fine' you say was issued on the train, if they recall giving an address, and if they recall being honest about the address they gave or if they made up a fake address hoping they would not be caught up with.

 

[ikcdab]

Criminal fines do not go away if they are unpaid. There is no time limit and the debt collection agency has (it seems) eventually caught up with him.
If you just bat it back to them, the sum will increase and they will track your son down at some point.
As the original penalty was apparently correctly applied (ie your son did travel without a ticket) then it is not ethical to try to avoid paying it anyway. The cheapest option now is to engage with the debt collectors and agree a payment plan to settle the debt and make the problem go away.

 

[WesternLancer]

Criminal fines do not go away if they are unpaid. There is no time limit and the debt collection agency has (it seems) eventually caught up with him.
If you just bat it back to them, the sum will increase and they will track your son down at some point.
As the original penalty was apparently correctly applied (ie your son did travel without a ticket) then it is not ethical to try to avoid paying it anyway. The cheapest option now is to engage with the debt collectors and agree a payment plan to settle the debt and make the problem go away.

Could it possibly be a civil debt if it is a Penalty Fare that was unpaid? Not a debt for fare evasion that would be criminal debt I assume.

But I don’t know if i am correct about that.

 

[AlterEgo]

Could it possibly be a civil debt if it is a Penalty Fare that was unpaid? Not a debt for fare evasion that would be criminal debt I assume.

But I don’t know if i am correct about that.

It's possible but unlikely - it probably wouldn't be over £700 if it was an unpaid Penalty Fare.

 

[Brissle Girl]

It's possible but unlikely - it probably wouldn't be over £700 if it was an unpaid Penalty Fare.

Though if you add the costs of the debt collectors, which may be quite high if they have taken a lot of research to track him down?

 

[martinchapman8]

Before we start, I don’t work for marstons, but one of the other agencies.

Marstons are agents working on Behalf of HMCTS (the court service) and all information is shared. Usually if a defendant is under 18, the parent is named on the warrant to pay. But have gone after 16 & 17 year olds.

HMCTS are actively going after old fines post privatisation of enforcement in an effort to re-coop its costs.

If your son does not recognise the fine, he can lodge a statutory declaration in court, but please bear in mind that most prosecutions are looked at to make sure it carries through in court so my advice would be to engage with Marstons, or ask to be put before the court for a means hearing.

Court fines are not like parking tickets, take them seriously and don’t ignore! I have 1st hand of locking someone up direct to prison for £10. The courts don’t mess around, but if given all the info can be of help in making sure it’s paid at a rate your son can afford.

 

[Hadders]

If this is genuinely the first your son knew of the court proceedings then I agree that a Statutory Declaration is worth considering.

A Statutory Declaration has the effect of 'resetting the clock'. Arrangements will be made for the case to be re-heard so that you can prepare your defence. It would be worth trying to persuade the train company to settle out of court and withdraw the court proceedings. If the train company won't play ball there is little point in making a Statutory Declaration, other than the possibility of a reduced fine for pleading guilty.

A Statutory Declaration has to be made within 21 days of becoming aware of the situation so tim eis of the essence.

 

[FenMan]

If this is genuinely the first your son knew of the court proceedings then I agree that a Statutory Declaration is worth considering.

A Statutory Declaration has the effect of 'resetting the clock'. Arrangements will be made for the case to be re-heard so that you can prepare your defence. It would be worth trying to persuade the train company to settle out of court and withdraw the court proceedings. If the train company won't play ball there is little point in making a Statutory Declaration, other than the possibility of a reduced fine for pleading guilty.

A Statutory Declaration has to be made within 21 days of becoming aware of the situation so tim eis of the essence.

I would massively emphasise this post begins with the word "if".

17 year olds can behave like, well, 17 year olds (I was 17 too, once). So I'd recommend a serious conversation with your 22 year old son, pointing out now would be a very good time to understand the complete story of what happened five years ago. Put it this way, it's very unlikely the railway would have not gone through their normal escalation process to recover the amount due, including sending letters and, if they were ignored, a notification of court proceedings. What happened to that correspondence?

 

[SussexMan]

If this is genuinely the first your son knew of the court proceedings then I agree that a Statutory Declaration is worth considering.

Does this not need some very careful consideration? If an out-of-court settlement isn't reached then a new conviction will be on their records. If the current conviction was when they were under 18 then the offence would be filtered out on a DBS after 5½ years and therefore not have to be declared.

I may be wrong on the above, so seek specialist help as it may be better to have a conviction stand (and pay the fine) but have the conviction filtered out and therefore not disclosed on an enhanced DBS nor have to declare it.

 

[pedr]

I think it is still worth working out the date of the court proceedings which (we are assuming) resulted in a conviction, since the Single Justice Procedure may have been inappropriate in this case.

The OP's son will also have to consider what his approach might be in the future regarding other official bodies which might have a reason to ask about convictions and not be bound by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act or UK policy and procedure on criminal records checks.

 

[Cowley]

We’re going to put a temporary lock on this for now as the OP hasn’t returned.

@beesley121 - If you wish to update us or need further advice, please report this post to us and we’ll look at reopening it.

Thanks all.

Edit: Some posts have been moved to

Can debt collectors legitimately chase up indebtedness like this that was incurred/created when a person was 17?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/marston-recovery-convicted-at-17-now-22.268176/ Can debt collectors legitimately chase up indebtedness like this that was incurred/created when a person was 17, or do they simply wait until after that person is 18+?

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