Marston Vale line suspension over - FULL services start running 19/02/24

[Bletchleyite]

I just get the bus to work and can walk to Bletchley. I couldn't from my friends in Apsley. ( he now drives and wont be back on the train) As for the RRB.....................................

You can walk to Bletchley station and take a train to Apsley. It really isn't very far, it's less distance than I have to walk to BLY.

I completely get that it's annoying, though I think I'd be prepared for losing your service entirely as I just can't see East West Rail going with anything other than the 5 station plan. A bicycle perhaps?

The school trains are the only high volume services on that line, so it totally makes sense to put them back first.

 

[Haywain]

A year without a service and 4 years of terrible service and you wonder why I and others are fed up!

Nobody wonders why you're fed up. We understand that.

 

[DarloRich]

You can walk to Bletchley station and take a train to Apsley. It really isn't very far, it's less distance than I have to walk to BLY.

I meant my friend cant walk from Aspley! I am lucky in that I can walk to another station.

I completely get that it's annoying, though I think I'd be prepared for losing your service entirely as I just can't see East West Rail going with anything other than the 5 station plan

I will just get the bus or buy a car. I wont bother with trains or this line. Why waste my time - no one else seems to care so why should I?

Nobody wonders why you're fed up. We understand that.

Is it unreasonable to ask/expect that a peak hours train runs? I might be to angry to see something obvious! Why cant LNWR explain this clearly?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I meant my friend cant walk from Aspley! I am lucky in that I can walk to another station.

Presumably though they can walk from Bletchley (or use the RRB, or the service bus from there).

I will just get the bus or buy a car. I wont bother with trains or this line. Why waste my time - no one else seems to care so why should I?

TBH I am astonished you haven't bought a car. Living in Milton Keynes without a car (or at the very least a decent e-bike) is seriously disadvantageous. It's just not the city to live without a car even if you're right next to a station, other than possibly the flats in CMK.

Is it unreasonable to ask/expect that a peak hours train runs? I might be to angry to see something obvious! Why cant LNWR explain this clearly?

It's sensible that they first reinstate the busiest trains. Which they are doing. The others will come soon once training is complete, back to a full hourly service in due course, and hopefully a reliable one this time.

I can understand why you're upset, but things are now happening.

Perhaps they should say "they're the school trains", but it takes half a second looking at the timings to to work out that they're clearly aimed at a 9am-4pm day primarily at the Bedford end and thus what that might be for. That said there are also trains arriving at Bletchley in the morning and leaving in the evening that would suit those working in the town centre there. The evening run back from Bedford might be of use for some London commuters but is really just getting the unit "home".

 

[DelW]

it is worth noting a usable service is still not being offered. LNWR still wont even say WHEN a usable service will be offered. A year without a service and 4 years of terrible service and you wonder why I and others are fed up!

No I don't - I've clearly said as much in the very post you're replying to.

it wouldn't be so bad if LNWR said "we can only manage 2 return trips a day right now because of X,Y,Z but we will add 2 peak hours trains in January and a full timetable in March" (Say) but we haven't got that. We haven't even got a date when the chocolate fireguard timetable will start!

LNR have said why the initial timetable is limited - because training is still needed and is still being undertaken.

Would you be happy with this and all that has gone before on your line? Would you? REALLY?

No I wouldn't be "happy" - but I hope I would take a realistic view of the measures that *are currently* being taken to reintroduce trains, and not just ranting endlessly about no-one giving a $hit.

Finally, we cant get to MK before 9 or Euston before 10. Do YOU think that is acceptable?

I can't get anywhere on my line this week without using a RRB, because it's closed for nine days for engineering work. That is acceptable to me because I understand the reason for it.

What you are repeatedly ignoring is that your timetable will be improved *once there are enough staff to work it*. So no, it's not "acceptable" to you but neither is it to LNR - and they are dealing with it, even if not as fast ss you want.

I am backing out of this conversation now as you're evidently not interested in a realistic discussion of what is actually possible.

 

[DarloRich]

Presumably though they can walk from Bletchley

To mine, yes. To London, not so much They have used the RRB but found, as I have, that it is "unreliable" at best

TBH I am astonished you haven't bought a car. Living in Milton Keynes without a car (or at the very least a decent e-bike) is seriously disadvantageous. It's just not the city to live without a car even if you're right next to a station, other than possibly the flats in CMK.

O/T but really? I find the opposite. Even without the train ( which makes it a bit harder) public transport is goodish, walking is easy, cycling is easy ( not that i cycle much) there are several grocery delivery services including robots and good shops within walking distance. MK is the easiest place I have ever lived without a car with perhaps the exception of Newcastle.

The reason I bought my house (beyond it being what i could afford) is that it is next to a station and near a bus stop with a 10 minute frequency. It is also an easy walk to Bletchley

I bought a car during lockdown but it died a few months ago. Been on the bus since. Perhaps that is why I am angry about the train!

Perhaps they should say "they're the school trains", but it takes half a second looking at the timings to to work out that they're clearly aimed at a 9am-3:30pm day primarily at the Bedford end and thus what that might be for.

Then they should say that clearly! Explain why a better service cant run now and tell us when, exactly, it will:

We understand that the introduction of this timetable is not what many of our customers had hoped for. It is not we want to offer you but we cant offer you more until XYZ happens. In particular we know the lack of peak hours services will be a frustration for you as it is for us. We hope to introduce peak hours trains on XXXX and a full service sometime in spring 2024 but this is reliant on our driving training plan delivering on time.

We know it has been a difficult period for our passengers using the Marston Vale line and we would like to apologise for the poor service we have offered you. It will get better and we thank you for your continued patience while we deliver the train service you deserve.

They issue a periodic communique so just issue a more detailed one!

 

[Bletchleyite]

To mine, yes. To London, not so much They have used the RRB but found, as I have, that it is "unreliable" at best

Oh, you mean Aspley Guise? I thought you meant what you said - Apsley, i.e. the posh bit of Hemel.

Is there anyone in genteel little Aspley Guise that doesn't own a premium SUV?

It's another one that's likely to lose its station in the 5-station option.

O/T but really? I find the opposite. Even without the train ( which makes it a bit harder) public transport is goodish

It's the worst urban bus service in the country in my opinion, and that in a city that basically doesn't have challenges like serious traffic congestion. And the coverage is truly appalling.

walking is easy, cycling is easy ( not that i cycle much) there are several grocery delivery services including robots and good shops within walking distance. MK is the easiest place I have ever lived without a car with perhaps the exception of Newcastle.

I've lived in Liverpool (Aintree), Ormskirk, Manchester (Fallowfield and Rusholme), Hamburg (Kiwittsmoor) and MK (Furzton and West Bletchley), and sort of lived in (weekly commuted to) Den Haag and Vevey (La Baume, and central when in a hotel). I would say ALL of those had substantially - unrecognisably - better public transport than MK does pretty much throughout*, and if you live near a Merseyrail or Metrolink station (or Den Haag tramstop) then it makes MK just look like a bit of a bad joke. I do accept that the "missing quadrant" in Liverpool that Merseytram was to fill, or those places served by the diesel local rail services in east Manchester, have lesser services than the good bits, but that's true anywhere - Furzton for instance now has no public transport whatsoever. (MK Connect doesn't count).

To be fair I'd love to live in Woburn Sands and have considered it, and this would be annoying me now if I did, but the lack of a Sunday service has ruled that out for me, as it's a bit far to cycle to a station with luggage.

* To be doubly fair I would say Hamburg has the best public transport system as a whole I have ever used - I consider it the best in the world, at least in terms of what I've directly experienced. Not perfect, but very, very, very good, and nothing in the UK, not even London, comes close.

We understand that the introduction of this timetable is not what many of our customers had hoped for. It is not we want to offer you but we cant offer you more until XYZ happens. In particular we know the lack of peak hours services will be a frustration for you as it is for us. We hope to introduce peak hours trains on XXXX and a full service sometime in spring 2024 but this is reliant on our driving training plan delivering on time.

We know it has been a difficult period for our passengers using the Marston Vale line and we would like to apologise for the poor service we have offered you. It will get better and we thank you for your continued patience while we deliver the train service you deserve.

They issue a periodic communique so just issue a more detailed one!

That is a fair point, though it'd not be telling you anything you didn't know.

 

[DarloRich]

I am backing out of this conversation now as you're evidently not interested in a realistic discussion of what is actually possible.

I am happy to have a realistic discussion. That is the whole point. Information is not forthcoming to allow that. let's start with this one: Why, exactly, cant a morning and evening peak hours train run.

IF it is that such a service requires, say, 20 drivers and we only have 10 trained up therefore we have prioritised other services then LNWR should say so! PLEASE give us a date when that will change

I can't get anywhere on my line this week without using a RRB, because it's closed for nine days for engineering work. That is acceptable to me because I understand the reason for it.

Hardly the same situation! We have had a year with no train. BTW I understand the reasons we have no train, I just don't like them and think they have gone on long enough!

What you are repeatedly ignoring is that your timetable will be improved *once there are enough staff to work it*. So no, it's not "acceptable" to you but neither is it to LNR - and they are dealing with it, even if not as fast ss you want.

I am not ignoring the fact that LNWR have said they will improve services. I am keen that they do ASAP. I am cynical about how quickly that will happen mind. Going on past records part of me expects it never to happen! once bitten and all that........

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not ignoring LNWR have said they will improve services. I am cynical about how quickly that will happen. Going on past records part of me expects it never to happen! once bitten and all that........

I'll be honest, I was quite confident when the D78s were taken out of service that the next service train to run on the Marston Vale would be an East West Rail one calling at only the new five stations, or possibly even fewer. I'm quite impressed and pleased that that isn't how it's gone.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Spotted the 230s at Reading sidings back on the 5th of this month.

Were those views of the 230s at Reading from a passing service ?.
Which route(s) go past ?.

All I want is to get the train to and from work - that doesn't seem like to big an "ask"! However, it is clear LNWR don't want my money ( and would rather run a service for the herberts, most of whom don't pay!) so Arriva will get it for the foreseeable.

It is so frustrating and makes me very sad and quite angry that after 4 years of a total bin fire of a service and nearly a year since our last train ran THIS nonsense is what they come up with: service that is unusable for anyone of working age!

I should just be like LNWR and everyone else and simply not give a $hit about this line. It isn't worth it . Just close it. No one except me seems to care.

PS and STILL no dates for the introduction of even this paltry service!

PPS - I don't want a full service, I don't want a Pullman, I don't want gold plated, i don't want meals or free coffees or a lounge. I don't want much I just want a train to and from work

And breathe.

Cannot blame you - it has dragged on and on (four years iirc and one with no train service at all).

Don't lose sight of this being the start of a low risk staged return to a normal service. Low risk because the se of 150s on Marston Vale is not unproven.

As usual I do think the lack of information is infuriating. It sometimes seems as though some think the problems will then go unnoticed !.

I'll be honest, I was quite confident when the D78s were taken out of service that the next service train to run on the Marston Vale would be an East West Rail one calling at only the new five stations, or possibly even fewer. I'm quite impressed and pleased that that isn't how it's gone.

I have wondered that. NR really missed an opportunity to get things ready for East West Rail - perhaps this shows it is not happening.

 

[Sunil_P]

Were those views of the 230s at Reading from a passing service ?.
Which route(s) go past ?.

Yes, took the pics from the Reading to Didcot stopping service.

 

[jfowkes]

I have wondered that. NR really missed an opportunity to get things ready for East West Rail - perhaps this shows it is not happening

Is there enough of a plan for EWR with respect to the Marston Vale for NR to actually accomplish anything?

 

[DarloRich]

Don't lose sight of this being the start of a low risk staged return to a normal service. Low risk because the se of 150s on Marston Vale is not unproven.

the problem is that we have been promised so much over the last decade and none of it has been delivered that people are cynical about any improvements

As usual I do think the lack of information is infuriating. It sometimes seems as though some think the problems will then go unnoticed

there are many unanswered questions - it is causing bad feeling in the community.

I have wondered that. NR really missed an opportunity to get things ready for East West Rail

NR aren't funded or resourced to respond like that. It will be a couple of years before the MV phase of E-W kicks off.

 

[brick60000]

I should just be like LNWR and everyone else and simply not give a $hit about this line.

Isn’t it fair to say that if that was the case, nothing would be happening.

There were, IMO, plenty available

What were these plentiful options?

PS: Hopefully in deciding to run these trains LNWR will, you know, make the herberts pay for a ticket!

And why such a heavy dislike of school children? They’re quite important to this line, it seems!

Is it unreasonable to ask/expect that a peak hours train runs? I might be to angry to see something obvious!

Why, exactly, cant a morning and evening peak hours train run.

A peak hours train is running. There are trains before 9am, and around 5pm. That’s peak hours.

It might not be peak hours to exactly where you are wanting to commute to, but a train is running in the peak hours.

 

[DarloRich]

Isn’t it fair to say that if that was the case, nothing would be happening.

Are you a regular user of the line? The service has been awful for 4 years. If LNWR ARE interested I would hate to see them disinterested! ( the actual staff on the line have always been great btw)

What were these plentiful options?

It has been discussed to death above. LNWR have never even said if they asked the DfT for permission to explore any of them. Why is that?

And why such a heavy dislike of school children? They’re quite important to this line, it seems!

No issue with the school kids beyond them not paying. Like many users of the line lots of them are pay on challenge. If these trains are the ones that are most required and return the most money lets have some revenue protection and get every one of those kids paying their fare. That's the kind of thing that shows an operator cares about running a service. It has long been absent.

A peak hours train is running. There are trains before 9am, and around 5pm. That’s peak hours.

Really? There is ONE train at Bletchley before 0900 and a departure from Bletchley at 1545 or 1745

BTW You can get to Bedford for 0800, which is great if you work there. Not many do though. My view is that the focus is on the wrong end of the line. It should be on the Bletchley end and WCML connections that being where LNWR run.

How would I do that? I would simply run an earlier pair of services from Bletchley giving an arrival there at around 0800. LNWR may be unable to do that for reasons that are not immediatly clear. I wouldn't be so peed off if they explained those reasons in a transparent fashion and set a date when an usable service will be delivered!

It might not be peak hours to exactly where you are wanting to commute to, but a train is running in the peak hours.

it isn't a service to anywhere anyone wants to go, expect college. The major employment centre fed by this line is Milton Keynes. First arrival 0907. Arriving at Euston after 10 isn't great either. It is hardly a way to win passengers back after the complete lack of service for a year!

I am sure you will point out that services will be improved later. When is later? LNWR don't seem to want to define any actual dates for any of this. I don't think expecting a peak service to help people get to work is outrageous. Am I wrong to think that?

But I suppose I should be happy and grateful - the trains are painted nicely!

 

[Silverlinky]

Things move slowly in the railway world. The trains arrived from the north, three of them, one on scrap wheelsets and another with an electrical issue. The good unit was then involved in a collision with a car near Aspley Guise. Its a good job that only a limited timetable has been proposed initially as anything else would have been unachievable with the cards dealt.
On Friday one unit is scheduled to travel north to visit the wheel lathe at Tyseley and early next week the damaged unit will go off for its repairs. This leaves one unit to be getting on with. Also Bletchley depot is scheduled to close for a couple of weeks too in connection with engineering works so only limited maintenance on the trains can be carried out for a while.
The two trains (one from Bedford and one from Bletchley) in the morning are both timed to arrive at Stewartby around 0825 bringing in students for Kimberley College, that's the reason for the double sets. There was also a request for services by Amazon for their warehouse workers early in the morning and late at night and I think there was a plan to run a train at 0515 from Bletchley. Not everything could be done to start with though so the priorities were the student timed trains.
There is scope to add a couple of further services in the interim (between November and January) once the three units are fully serviceable, able to be maintained at the depot and sufficient traincrew are trained, and the "ambition" is to introduce a fuller weekday service in early January alongside Saturday services.

 

[brick60000]

Are you a regular user of the line? The service has been awful for 4 years. If LNWR ARE interested I would hate to see them disinterested!

I’m not, but I don’t think using the last 4 years as a benchmark is hugely fair.

The provider of the trains went into administration, and before that Covid had a massive impact.

it isn't a service to anywhere anyone wants to go, expect college. The major employment centre fed by this line is Milton Keynes. First arrival 0907. Arriving at Euston after 10 isn't great either. It is hardly a way to win passengers back after the complete lack of service for a year!

I think this comment is partly true. Clearly, the largest demand perceived is for the college students. Otherwise these services wouldn’t be running over others.

You can’t run a limited service and please everybody. But it’s a start, and let’s hope that a full service comes soon

 

[DarloRich]

I’m not, but I don’t think using the last 4 years as a benchmark is hugely fair.

That is a fair point . I have 13 years of almost daily use to look back on. It has rarely been good during all that time. Honestly. We actually got close to adequate with the post covid timetable which, while much reduced, seemed deliverable even with 230's. LM got close to a good service with the 150/153 combo once they admitted defeat and out based a spare unit and dedicated fitters at Bletchley. Then the 230's arrived and it all got flushed away! Back to square one. It is such a frustration trying to use this line.

But it’s a start, and let’s hope that a full service comes soon

It is - i just WISH they LNWR were clear and transparent about timelines. There isn't even a public date for the initial services let alone the next phase! it is maddening!

 

[InkyScrolls]

It's clear that @DarloRich has an axe to grind and there's no room for common sense to get in the way! With all your superhuman knowledge of traction, crew and timetable planning, I'm surprised you haven't applied to work for LNR, @DarloRich. If that searing ire could only be harnessed...

 

[DarloRich]

has an axe to grind and there's no room for common sense to get in the way!

far from it! Unlike many ( even here) I WANT the line to do well - I have succeeded in getting people onto the trains. We had a chug club at work and had 12 members at one point just before COVID. When I started I was the only one using the train in the office. I am the only one of the 12 even considering going back to the train. Also I have spent my time picking up litter at the station so it is nice environment for users and I have supported and defended the operator when attacked.

but, yeah, very axey.

With all your superhuman knowledge of traction, crew and timetable planning, I'm surprised you haven't applied to work for LNR,

I don't think they would want me or pay me enough & I don't have any such knowledge. The point is LNWR wont, ever, explain WHY they have taken decisions. I (and others) wouldn't be so angry if there was transparency in their communications. If 2 service pairs are the limit with the trained staff available and why the two appointed service pairs were chosen then explain why in detail. Also let us know when we might get a better service. Not a season. A date.

BTW - We don't even have a date for this very limited service!

If that searing ire could only be harnessed...

Is it outrageous to expect, after the best part of a year with no service, to expect a peak hours service? If so can you explain why? Is your view that the lack of such a service, without explanation, is acceptable?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think they would want me or pay me enough & I don't have any such knowledge. The point is LNWR wont, ever, explain WHY they have taken decisions. I (and others) wouldn't be so angry if there was transparency in their communications. If 2 service pairs are the limit with the trained staff available and why the two appointed service pairs were chosen then explain why in detail. Also let us know when we might get a better service. Not a season. A date.

I think they have communicated better on this than any other TOC has communicated publically on any fleet matter, to be honest, with an ongoing running blog and the likes.

Giving a date is a bad idea in case the date cannot be met, you'd be more angry then.

 

[DarloRich]

I think they have communicated better on this than any other TOC has communicated publically on any fleet matter, to be honest, with an ongoing running blog and the likes.

lots of words, communicated often - little detail and a reluctance to discuss any detail.

Giving a date is a bad idea in case the date cannot be met, you'd be more angry then.

or focuses the mind to ensure a deadline is met to avid letting customers down further

TBH - i would be more understanding if they failed but explained why. You will note there isn't even a date for the initial timetable.

 

[43096]

Giving a date is a bad idea in case the date cannot be met, you'd be more angry then.

Angry regardless from what I can tell.

 

[Bletchleyite]

lots of words, communicated often - little detail and a reluctance to discuss any detail.

I have never seen any TOC give more detail than that on fleet matters to the general public. Ever.

or focuses the mind to ensure it is met to avid letting customers down further

There are a load of external factors. Not all of which are in their control, e.g. high levels of staff sickness.

Would you be happy if they said "you will have a full service by Q3 2024"? That would probably be achievable barring Bletchley depot catching fire or something.

 

[DarloRich]

Would you be happy if they said "you will have a full service by Q3 2024"?

No - i have had enough.

On what date can I get the train from my station to work before 0900. It is a really simple question. The answer should be the first day of service imo.

I have never seen any TOC give more detail than that on fleet matters to the general public. Ever.

I agree they have communicated often - they still haven't given any detail or answered any questions. Did LNWR, for instance, even ask DfT about other options and derogations that might have delivered a service sooner? Why wont they say?

( and yes, i have asked them in writing. They haven't even acknowledged receipt - hence my anger with this)

 

[Bletchleyite]

No - i have had enough.

On what date can I get the train from my station to work before 0900. It is a really simple question. The answer should be the first day of service imo.

"Nobody should have any sort of service before I do".

As I said, the school trains are by orders of magnitude the highest demand on the line, therefore it's quite right these should be first. The other trains usually carry single or low double figures of passengers.

 

[43096]

No - i have had enough.

On what date can I get the train from my station to work before 0900. It is a really simple question. The answer should be the first day of service imo.

LNR have clearly prioritised the busier services to come back first. You need to look at it from their perspective - they can't instantly train all the crews so a phased return is the best that can be done. Your view seems to be nothing should run until a full service (or more specifically, ones that suit you) can be launched. That comes across as very narrow minded.

 

[DarloRich]

"Nobody should have any sort of service before I do".

you misrepresent my position.

I am happy the school trains run and that they are busiest. I simply want to know why a service allowing an arrival at the main employment centre in the area before 0900 is not possible at the same time. Cant we tweak the timetable to cover all bases?

As I said, the school trains are by orders of magnitude the highest demand on the line, therefore it's quite right these should be first. The other trains usually carry single or low double figures of passengers.

The trains that arrived in Bletchley at c0800 were better loaded pre covid. I simply want that train to run to offer people a chance to get to work. Is that outrageous?

The rest of the day can come later. As you say they are very lightly loaded. Frankly, they can come much later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am happy the school trains run and that they are busiest. I simply want to know why a service allowing an arrival at the main employment centre in the area before 0900 is not possible at the same time. Cant we tweak the timetable to cover all bases?

That'd be the full timetable, no?

 

[DarloRich]

That'd be the full timetable, no?

No - cant we tweak the initial timetable to try and cover both schools and work traffic? If we could knock both services from Bletchley back a bit i reckon it could work. Even 15 minutes might be enough.

For discussion purposes the new timetable offers departures from Bletchley at 0718 & 0800 - could we not have 0700 and 0800 instead?