Marston Vale line suspension over - FULL services start running 19/02/24

[170UTD]

I've seen that the Class 150s are returning to the Marston Vale line in due course.
I'm not sure which operator they'll be transferred from though.

Marston Vale Line: Hourly timetable has now resumed

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

note - this and the replies have been merged from a separate thread.

 

[43066]

all i will say is : FFS.

Anyone know how to change your season ticket?

Trains are coming back and you’re getting proper BR heritage traction, not inflammable LU knock offs! What’s not to like!?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean they were burning through 3 engines a week, for a fleet of 3 trains?

That is terrifyingly bad

It's appalling. I thought things were bad with the level of delays and cancellations, but that's a proper "lemon".

As above the two 150s on loan from Northern to TfW and some others from Northern by the sounds of it

TfW 150/2s, I believe. Northern will want theirs back.

 

[skyhigh]

TfW 150/2s, I believe. Northern will want theirs back.

Don't be so sure of that. The post you quoted is pretty much spot on by all accounts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't be so sure of that. The post you quoted is pretty much spot on by all accounts.

How's Northern going to be in a position to release any? It's going to need more if the 195 doubling-up on Barrows and Windermeres is still happening. I know cuts are planned, but you'd need some pretty serious cuts (i.e. several complete line closures) for three 150s to be spare, given which routes they're now used on.

 

[Silverlinky]

Three x 150/1 from Northern, after they receive 156's from EMR, after they receive 170's from WMT.

 

[Facing Back]

Three x 150/1 from Northern, after they receive 156's from EMR, after they receive 170's from WMT.

lol what can possibly go wrong...

 

[Bletchleyite]

lol what can possibly go wrong...

Why on earth such a complex cascade? Are TfW holding onto theirs for longer?

 

[westcoaster]

Could borrowed turbos have been used (maybe 1 from Chiltern and or GWR ) in the mean time.

Or found a work around for the unwanted 769's (LNR have 319 knowledge at bletchley).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could borrowed turbos have been used (maybe 1 from Chiltern and or GWR ) in the mean time.

Or found a work around for the unwanted 769's (LNR have 319 knowledge at bletchley).

40m max unit length for some reason I don't quite understand (I checked the Sectional Appendix and only one platform would be an issue for longer units, though a few would require local door).

 

[swt_passenger]

Could borrowed turbos have been used (maybe 1 from Chiltern and or GWR ) in the mean time.

Neither of those TOCs have enough to run their own services properly, and they’re also apparently too long.

 

[paul1609]

Shortforming is chronic on the GWR Portsmouth to Cardiff Services. After Portsmouth FC home matches its not unusual for the first train heading West to be a 2 car 165 and to arrive at fratton full and standing from the Harbour with 2000 people queuing in the station car park wanting to get on.

 

[zwk500]

40m max unit length for some reason I don't quite understand (I checked the Sectional Appendix and only one platform would be an issue for longer units, though a few would require local door).

If local door isn't authorised then that would be an additional paperwork problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If local door isn't authorised then that would be an additional paperwork problem.

If they've managed to install a foot crossing at Wennington I think they can manage to sign off local door operation at hardly-used stations on the Marston Vale.

 

[zwk500]

If they've managed to install a foot crossing at Wennington I think they can manage to sign off local door operation at hardly-used stations on the Marston Vale.

You'd think! I suspect that the foot crossing is the absolute last resort, and Local door would be as well. However at Wennington there was no other reasonable option (new ramp or replacement footbridge being not cost-effective) whereas on the Marston Vale they have found an option of 150s that avoids the need for Local Door.
Can't imagine the LOM was looking forward to doing a risk assessment of every platform shorter than 46m and writing instructions for each of them.

 

[Liam L]

Are TfW holding onto theirs for longer?

Apparently the 150s will be last to go out of the fleets to come off lease.

 

[12LDA28C]

Could borrowed turbos have been used (maybe 1 from Chiltern and or GWR ) in the mean time.

Are you having a laugh? Chiltern haven't got enough stock to run their own services let alone hire out to another operator.

And as others have said, 23m long vehicles makes 165s/168s too long for the platforms on the MV.

 

[hooverboy]

40m max unit length for some reason I don't quite understand (I checked the Sectional Appendix and only one platform would be an issue for longer units, though a few would require local door).

probably a bit of a stretch,but what would be the issue with getting a couple of "spare" 156's, and retrofitting a sliding door with a t key at each of the drivers ends?
lock the back door out of use on each trip,and then get the guard to announce only the front 3 in operation.(guard to dispense duties from the rear carriage operational door at each stop)
no problem then with signalling/safety despatch or platform lengths. operational doors running at about 26m then,well within the 38m shortest platform length, plus more comfortable than a 3*2 150 high density set.

 

[hooverboy]

probably a bit of a stretch,but what would be the issue with getting a couple of "spare" 156's, and retrofitting a sliding door with a t key at each of the drivers ends?
lock the back door out of use on each trip,and then get the guard to announce only the front 3 in operation.(guard to dispense duties from the rear carriage operational door at each stop)
no problem then with signalling/safety despatch or platform lengths. operational doors running at about 26m then,well within the 38m shortest platform length, plus more comfortable than a 3*2 150 high density set.

if I was to be really pedantic,then why not trial a few new more efficient engines as a test case on that line.
ROSCO and TOC have basically lost nothing as there's no service at all at the moment,and the previous vivarail service was always breaking down anyway!

if they want to trial super fuel efficient branch line, then use it as a test bed and whip out the NT855 for something like a cummins B6.7/L9 with the appropriate gearing for branch lines.The feedback would be useful for the likes of eversholt/porterbrook and it wouldn't cost that much.About 1 years upfrom cost for the engine.Fuel and running cost savings as of year 2/3.

 

[DelW]

Does that mean they were burning through 3 engines a week, for a fleet of 3 trains?

That is terrifyingly bad

While it sounds bad, I don't think it necessarily means three brand-new engines were being needed each week.

IIRC one of the design principles of the 230s was that engine maintenance and repair would be carried out in their workshop, not insitu under the train, to avoid the need for jacks or pits. So when an engine needed attention, it would be slid out on its raft and another slotted in to get the unit back into service. The removed engine would then be worked on as necessary and when completed would be available as the next replacement.

If that's the way it turned out, the "three swaps per week" may just mean three exchanges between engines under the train and engines in the workshop - which isn't good, but isn't as bad as needing three new engines from the manufacturer.

 

[12LDA28C]

IIRC one of the design principles of the 230s was that engine maintenance and repair would be carried out in their workshop, not insitu under the train, to avoid the need for jacks or pits. So when an engine needed attention, it would be slid out on its raft and another slotted in to get the unit back into service. The removed engine would then be worked on as necessary and when completed would be available as the next replacement.

Indeed. I've seen a 'genset' swap done on a 230 at Bletchley depot in 20 minutes. The modular design lent itself to quick and relatively simple removal and installation of components.

 

[Silverlinky]

Indeed. I've seen a 'genset' swap done on a 230 at Bletchley depot in 20 minutes. The modular design lent itself to quick and relatively simple removal and installation of components.

Didn't these gensets have to be sent to Scotland to be repaired when the failure was more serious?

Genset failures were numerous, certainly more than three a week. From a 3 unit pool where two were required for service each day, the other one was almost always unserviceable. They would work on the unserviceable unit, get it back into traffic the following day and then work on the next one, and so on and so on. Actually though, reliability seemed to be improving leading up to VivaRails demise.

 

[hooverboy]

Didn't these gensets have to be sent to Scotland to be repaired when the failure was more serious?

Genset failures were numerous, certainly more than three a week. From a 3 unit pool where two were required for service each day, the other one was almost always unserviceable. They would work on the unserviceable unit, get it back into traffic the following day and then work on the next one, and so on and so on. Actually though, reliability seemed to be improving leading up to VivaRails demise.

Those transit engines nearly always did sound like they were being revved pretty hard.It's not exactly a surprise that they were giving up on such a frequent basis.

With regard to the "failures", I was very much of the understanding that the defective ones were rotated out,but I think it equally true that vivarail would have been better off using one bigger block than 2 smaller engines per carriage.
Much less to go wrong that way,,and slower revs means less wear and cooler running.According to the stats ,these were producing nearly 400bhp per vehicle..about half as much again as a sprinter uses, so those poor 3.2L units must have had the nuts thrashed off them!

 

[david l]

Shortforming is chronic on the GWR Portsmouth to Cardiff Services. After Portsmouth FC home matches its not unusual for the first train heading West to be a 2 car 165 and to arrive at fratton full and standing from the Harbour with 2000 people queuing in the station car park wanting to get on.

All of 23 times per year.....

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Why cant some stored 153s be drafted in?

 

[Liam L]

Why cant some stored 153s be drafted in?

Don't meet accessibility requirements anymore.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't meet accessibility requirements anymore.

A cheap "PRM lite" could be done easily enough, locking the toilets.

The reason 153s aren't used is that a single 153 doesn't have enough capacity fro the school trains and a double one won't fit some platforms. They were discussed before settling on the 230s. If they'd been selected, a flighted timetable would have had to operate at peak times.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Don't meet accessibility requirements anymore.

so we put people at risk by putting them on a bus instead although im sure a short term dispensation could be granted with some sort of accessible taxi backup.

 

[323235]

Service to resume in September with TFW 150s is what I've heard this morning. Plan dependent on TFW releasing the units in time (so dependent on enough 231s and 756s entering service) and WMT completing crew refreshers on the 150s.

Surely Northern could just take a lease for some redundant 156s straight away then loan West Midlands Trains some 150s straight away, save waiting all that time.

Or perhaps West Midlands Trains lease the 156s and sub lease them to Northern.

 

[Liam L]

Surely Northern could just take a lease for some redundant 156s straight away then loan West Midlands Trains some 150s straight away, save waiting all that time.

Or perhaps West Midlands Trains lease the 156s and sub lease them to Northern.

Still some more 170s to come from WMR to EMR to allow more 156s to be released yet. the last unit for the time being transfers on Saturday and 5 are staying for time being whilst Worcester depot learns the 196s and the units introduced.