KNN
Member
If anything it's one fewer layer as there won't be the owning group's priorities conflicting with both the TOC and DfT. Maybe not an issue in open access, but from what I hear a few TOCs won't miss FirstGroup.
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Martijn Gilbert leaves FirstGroup with immediate effect
- Thread starter Bletchleyite
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Clarence Yard
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The owning groups priorities are to do the DfT’s bidding and collect their fees. So, I don’t see any conflict with the DfT here.
Where the TOC gets annoyed is that they may want to decide what they want to do themselves but there are not being allowed to do so. This has effectively been the case since 2020 and it won’t change when the OG’s finally disappear from the scene. Indeed, it is highly likely that the individual TOCs will also disappear, together with a load of their management and back room staff.
Where the TOC gets annoyed is that they may want to decide what they want to do themselves but there are not being allowed to do so. This has effectively been the case since 2020 and it won’t change when the OG’s finally disappear from the scene. Indeed, it is highly likely that the individual TOCs will also disappear, together with a load of their management and back room staff.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I imagine that some management will stay in the private sector but certainly not all will. David Horne chose to stay with LNER rather than Stagecoach, I imagine others would make a similar decision.
I don't actually think GBR will change very much, certainly at a senior level. I would say that any removal of duplication will be much lower down the food chain.
oh there will be lots going at senior level.
It's interesting how some on here perceive the impact of Marc Morgan-Huws, Alex Hornby and Martijn Gilbert so negatively, as their bus passengers definitely didn't.
Is it more of a case that when they leave, those that take over don't have the ability to carry on the success and so it quickly fails to live up to previous expectations?
Without their combined creativity, the UK bus network would be a lot worse off...as First are most definitely showing in Cornwall and GNE are showing in the north-east. Did they make mistakes, clearly, but at least all three tried to do things the right way and do something different at their bus companies, unlike Arriva for example.
Alex Hornby seems to be trying to do the same at Northern, and Marc also seems to be doing fine at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.
Is it more of a case that when they leave, those that take over don't have the ability to carry on the success and so it quickly fails to live up to previous expectations?
Without their combined creativity, the UK bus network would be a lot worse off...as First are most definitely showing in Cornwall and GNE are showing in the north-east. Did they make mistakes, clearly, but at least all three tried to do things the right way and do something different at their bus companies, unlike Arriva for example.
Alex Hornby seems to be trying to do the same at Northern, and Marc also seems to be doing fine at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.
I know nothing about these three individuals so am only making a general point.
The same effect (business going downhill after someone leaves) can also be because they got out just in time. Governments are notorious for this.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think one of the issues with these people are that they're disrupters - they come in and change things, which people who like things a certain way don't like. That works for a new business like Lumo but would work less well with something like Northern (and I suspect Hornby is having a challenging time there). FirstGroup of course is a big corporate behemoth, I can see he might have been frustrated by the beancounters there.
Clarence Yard
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No, it was nothing like that. Martijn is ambitious and it was time to move on. There were no other jobs he could have got at FG, at least not in the next year or so.
For those that worked with him, this isn’t a surprising move.
For those that worked with him, this isn’t a surprising move.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
One senior manager to transfer between BR to the private sector and back again is Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde, current CEO of TfW Rail Ltd.
He began with BR and then worked all over the private TOC sector including SWT, Merseyrail and WMT before managing TfWR after it became a public body.
The new CEO of SWR (actually CEO of both the TOC and the parallel NR Wessex Route) is ex-Network Rail, and there is a pool of senior NR managers who could find themselves with significant GBR management roles.
He began with BR and then worked all over the private TOC sector including SWT, Merseyrail and WMT before managing TfWR after it became a public body.
The new CEO of SWR (actually CEO of both the TOC and the parallel NR Wessex Route) is ex-Network Rail, and there is a pool of senior NR managers who could find themselves with significant GBR management roles.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I always confuse him with Gilbert due to the Dutch names they both have. However I think they're very different characters - Gilbert is an innovator and disruptor whereas van der Velde is a competent bureaucrat, for want of a better term. To be fair those two approaches do fit well with the operations they have managed - Lumo had plenty of scope for innovation whereas Merseyrail, WMT and TfW far less so - primarily commuter/local operations just need to keep doing the same thing over and over in a reliable and punctual manner.
bahnause
Member
Judging by the current state of rail transport, it's fair to say that some of these senior managers shouldn't even be near the operation of a railway. I'd look very hard at the track record, before hiring them again.
TFW has done quite a lot of innovation - use of MK4 coaches on the Marches. Not sure how financially worthwhile it is, but it seems to have really driven revenue by providing a better service. When compared to the other non-intercity DftT operators, TFW has been quite innovative.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd question whether buying up old, run-into-the-ground unreliable tat was innovative or sensible. See also ScotRail HSTs.
Llandudno
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Indeed, 50 year old London Transport cast offs for Wrexham - Bidston ….
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Those rolling stock decisions were taken when the franchise system was in force, with KeolisAmey fronting the winning bid and implementing the rolling stock purchases (with WG approval).
KA are still involved, even though WG has taken control, with a remit to manage the new train introduction and (separately) the Valley Lines infrastructure upgrade.
WG has even taken ownership of the Mk4 fleet.
Pedantically, he’s MD rather than CEO.
Less pedantically, he is still Network Rail, and is ex WMT, EMR and SWT. So he knows a thing or two about running a train company, including the one he runs now. Class act IMO, and I’d have a fiver on him being in the top seat within a decade.
DJ_K666
Member
If what I read in that link is true I'm not surprised. But then I have a strong dislike of First Group anyway, given how they treat their bus drivers.
However, maybe he's worked his notice period on the quiet and only announced his departure right beforehand. It's what I'd have done. Especially since he's obviously arranged a new job to go to so he's probably been doing the groundwork for a few months.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That does happen, but more common in senior roles is that you are either paid in lieu of notice or put on gardening leave. Which of those they pick will depend on how much they like or dislike where they're going next; forcing them to go on gardening leave is a way of doing a bit of sly sabotage by delaying their start at the new organisation
That does happen, but more common in senior roles is that you are either paid in lieu of notice or put on gardening leave. Which of those they pick will depend on how much they like or dislike where they're going next; forcing them to go on gardening leave is a way of doing a bit of sly sabotage by delaying their start at the new organisation
More normally you are put on gardening leave during your notice period. Not as harsh as Tesco used to be. They'd force senior execs to work out their 6 month notice period from a solo office in a distribution centre writing training material without any other employee contact.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
He's probably on it now, hence us not hearing about where he is going next. Note "step away from his position" - that suggests he's still employed for that period, often three months for senior roles but could be much longer (almost never shorter).
Ouch!
Agreed, obviously we all function at different levels with regards to senior management vs traincrew but I can honestly say I never recall anyone having a bad thing to say about him at EMT. Proactive and interested in making things work was how he came across as a relatively young senior manager at the time.
At least Tesco's procedures would be all up to date!
tfw756rider
Member
Martijn is a Dutch variant of Martin, suggesting that he's of Dutch descent.
"Hi. My name's Martin with a j". Must be interesting at Starbucks.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's pronounced "Mart-eye-n", noticeably different. IJ is a ligature in Dutch (like AE, OE etc) pronounced with an "eye" sound. Hence why if you write the name of the place "IJmuiden" you capitalise both the first two letters - I think you are also nominally meant to do that in Welsh (e.g. "LLanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch") but I've not seen that in a long time (though I have seen it). In English you certainly saw "AEsop's Fables".
Gilbert is probably not "Gill-bert" but rather "Jill-ber" I suspect, along the Dutch line. I assume at least one Dutch parent.
Having studied Dutch I agree that the native pronunciation should be 'Mart-eye-n', however I've seen him speak in a few videos and he always seems to use the English 'Martin', this is one example albeit from a few years ago:
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Interesting. Up to him I guess!