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May 2023 changes

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Sentinel

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XC are now only running every 2 hours beyond Birmingham International to Oxford for at least the next few weeks. Add to this the line closure between Oxford and Didcot and the result is an appalling service on this key route from the airport and from Coventry to the south. XC is not highlighting this dreadful curtailment. From Oxford et al it now means a two hourly direct service to Manchester. Why?
 
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The Planner

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XC are now only running every 2 hours beyond Birmingham International to Oxford for at least the next few weeks. Add to this the line closure between Oxford and Didcot and the result is an appalling service on this key route from the airport and from Coventry to the south. XC is not highlighting this dreadful curtailment. From Oxford et al it now means a two hourly direct service to Manchester. Why?
Because of the bridge works south of Oxford, they will be back to normal when its done. International is operationally better. You block platforms at Leamington and Banbury with double sets turning round.
 

Sentinel

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Because of the bridge works south of Oxford, they will be back to normal when its done. International is operationally better. You block platforms at Leamington and Banbury with double sets turning round.
Hasn’t been a problem for the last few weeks though, and why a problem just every other hour on a clock face timetable? And for the record, they are now only running single sets ex-Manchester..
 

mangyiscute

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Hasn’t been a problem for the last few weeks though, and why a problem just every other hour on a clock face timetable? And for the record, they are now only running single sets ex-Manchester..
I don't understand what you mean by is hasn't been a problem for the last few weeks - they've been running a two hourly service since the line shut back in april. The fact that they're single sets is presumably because of more units being used elsewhere.
 

Peter0124

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XC have absolutely decimated the service out of Glasgow Central, from a train roughly every 2 hours, to just 1tpd in each direction south of the border.

Atleast the northbound service is booked a HST though!
 

Bletchleyite

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XC have absolutely decimated the service out of Glasgow Central, from a train roughly every 2 hours, to just 1tpd in each direction south of the border.

Atleast the northbound service is booked a HST though!

I'm not convinced that the XC Glasgow-Edinburgh service really needs to exist at all - now the ScotRail service has been so substantially upgraded as it has, people will just go Glasgow-Edinburgh on ScotRail and down to Newcastle, York or wherever on LNER. Sure, you need to cross Glasgow, but it's not an unpleasant or long walk and there is a shuttle bus or the Subway if you have lots of bags.

0.5tph in a Voyager just isn't attractive compared to a minimum of 2tph of connections depending on destination.
 

Peterthegreat

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I'm not convinced that the XC Glasgow-Edinburgh service really needs to exist at all - now the ScotRail service has been so substantially upgraded as it has, people will just go Glasgow-Edinburgh on ScotRail and down to Newcastle, York or wherever on LNER. Sure, you need to cross Glasgow, but it's not an unpleasant or long walk and there is a shuttle bus or the Subway if you have lots of bags.

0.5tph in a Voyager just isn't attractive compared to a minimum of 2tph of connections depending on destination.
Using the same logic there is no need to provide a service from Glasgow to Manchester. There are plenty of trains from Glasgow to Preston and from Preston to Manchester.
 

Goldfish62

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I don't understand what you mean by is hasn't been a problem for the last few weeks - they've been running a two hourly service since the line shut back in april. The fact that they're single sets is presumably because of more units being used elsewhere.
Based on that presumption then they won't have enough units to restore the hourly service from 10th June!

The overcrowding from today onwards must be truly horrendous.
 

hexagon789

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I'm not convinced that the XC Glasgow-Edinburgh service really needs to exist at all - now the ScotRail service has been so substantially upgraded as it has, people will just go Glasgow-Edinburgh on ScotRail and down to Newcastle, York or wherever on LNER.
That is exactly why it isn't coming back beyond the token service.

Using the same logic there is no need to provide a service from Glasgow to Manchester. There are plenty of trains from Glasgow to Preston and from Preston to Manchester.
Either way, it isn't going to return. The current requirement is for one business departure linking Glasgow with Leeds and one leisure service for the South-West. The 0748 is designed to meet both those requirements.

The long-term XC plan has no plan for increasing the Glasgow services again.

Equally the calls at some of the smaller stations such as Brockenhurst are not planned to increase either for reasons of capacity and performance.
 

Mag_seven

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But the 2 hourly XC Glasgow - Northern East Coast mainline services were specifically brought in in lieue of the LNER 2 hourly Glasgow - Kings Cross services. Was a consultation exercise carried out where people stated they were happy using Scotrail from Queen St to Edinburgh then change?
 

hexagon789

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But the 2 hourly XC Glasgow - Northern East Coast mainline services were specifically brought in in lieue of the LNER 2 hourly Glasgow - Kings Cross services.
Correct, ostensibly because there wasn't much demand for London by that route, especially after the accelerated WCML service, but there was still demand for Glasgow to Newcastle/York/Leeds.

The number of travellers has fallen since the E&G was electrified and the decision was taken not to restore the two-hourly Glasgow extensions.

Transport for Scotland don't appear to have made an objection this time, unlike when various other Anglo-Scottish extensions were touted for curtailment.
 

mangyiscute

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Out of the sections of the cross country route than can be curtailed, one where there is a very frequent alternative is probably the best choice - I would guess the only way these service could be continued would be if the Glasgow to Edinburgh service was combined with the Newcastle to Edinburgh stopper, and run by presumably scotrail to at least give Newcastle a direct link to Glasgow. I just don't know if the demand for direct trains is there when the change in Edinburgh is between frequent, long trains
 

Peterthegreat

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It seems incredible to me that there was intense public consultation when franchise alterations were proposed but now it seems to be done in secret with hardly anyone knowing until is too late.
 

class397tpe

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Based on that presumption then they won't have enough units to restore the hourly service from 10th June!

The overcrowding from today onwards must be truly horrendous.
Majority of services on the NE to SW axis are now single units too - much more than before the timetable chage. And they haven't had the pre-covid service restored, with only 5tpd via Doncaster still, so capacity between Newcastle to Birmingham is reduced.

 

73128

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1H03, 1H07 and 1H92 in the morning peak. Historically 12 cars and busy at that so very much hoping these haven't been cut for the 313s.
real time trains will tell what they are today for GTR, and in a few days time for the previous seven of the new timetable, which should be a good indication of what they are expected to be.

From looking deeper into it, the half of the trains that have pathing allowance have a freight/ECS service running in front of it at a slower speed, so they have to wait outside Swindon for a bit since they catch it up. There's absolutely no reason that I can see that this spare time couldn't be used sat at Didcot rather than travelling at a slower speed for a while. This is the reason that I get annoyed at timetables sometimes, it's when there's a clear change that could be made that wouldn't makes anyone's journey worse but would make a lot of people's journeys better.
is it clear why the off peak pattern from Paddington needed to be changed at all, other than to bring the Newbury departures forward slightly to squeeze the Didcot slows in down the mains and take the Slough stop out of the Oxfords??
 

mangyiscute

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is it clear why the off peak pattern from Paddington needed to be changed at all, other than to bring the Newbury departures forward slightly to squeeze the Didcot slows in down the mains and take the Slough stop out of the Oxfords??
Well I guess if you want to speed up the Bristols then they have to leave before the cheltenhams, which is the only other change really. Issue is that they're sped up by anywhere between not at all to about 3 minutes, so is it worth cutting the didcot stop for that?
 

Sussex Ben

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Thought I’d try out the new 1733 London Bridge to Littlehampton today (I know it’s not a new train, but it was cancelled so often it may as well be), and note that GTR have decided to use Gatwick Express stock on a service that don’t stop at Gatwick, not for the first time I believe.

I wonder how many people will inadvertently end up at Haywards Heath having looked at the side of the train and not the platform screens…
 
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I must be just a few carriages away from you! Aside from some really really shoddy pathing at Windmill Bridge Jn on the am peak service, it seems to be a good choice to have transferred to electrostars for reliability purposes having given it a try in both directions today.
 

PGAT

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Thought I’d try out the new 1733 London Bridge to Littlehampton today (I know it’s not a new train, but it was cancelled so often it may as well be), and note that GTR have decided to use Gatwick Express stock on a service that don’t stop at Gatwick, not for the first time I believe.

I wonder how many people will inadvertently end up at Haywards Heath having looked at the side of the train and not the platform screens…
I knew they were low on 377s but I didn't expect it to come to this!
 

Sussex Ben

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I knew they were low on 377s but I didn't expect it to come to this!
Better to some unhelpfully branded 387s than a cancelled 700 though!

Hopefully the transfer over to Southern will help overall reliability - I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner as there was little point in it being 700 operated once it ceased going north of London Bridge.
 
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Hopefully the transfer over to Southern will help overall reliability - I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner as there was little point in it being 700 operated once it ceased going north of London Bridge.
Agreed. Personally I'd like to see it go back to being 2tpd in each direction. 17.33 doesn't really match up with a significant number of City working habits, far too early. Perhaps something to hope for after some stability.
 

Sussex Ben

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Agreed. Personally I'd like to see it go back to being 2tpd in each direction. 17.33 doesn't really match up with a significant number of City working habits, far too early. Perhaps something to hope for after some stability.
It provides useful capacity in front of the very busy 17:35 Brighton service, but the decline in long distance commuting probably means it has little benefit as a coastway service.

As an aside, I was a frequent user of the two direct Eastbourne services. The 12-car 17:33 was generally full to Haywards Heath, but the 8-car 18:33 loaded poorly south of Croydon. My reading into that generally suggested that longer distance commuters tended to travel earlier, so the timing of the current service is probably about right.
 
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but the decline in long distance commuting probably means it has little benefit as a coastway service.
The west coastway services are the some of the busiest services in the timetable even according to GTR with the 18xx departures being busier than the 17xx. Whilst the 17.35 ex LBG is indeed busy, it doesn't mean the 18.35 isn't.
 

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Well I guess if you want to speed up the Bristols then they have to leave before the cheltenhams, which is the only other change really. Issue is that they're sped up by anywhere between not at all to about 3 minutes, so is it worth cutting the didcot stop for that?
The other change is the Didcot stops in half the Oxford fasts when they run again.
 

JonathanH

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The west coastway services are the some of the busiest services in the timetable even according to GTR with the 18xx departures being busier than the 17xx. Whilst the 17.35 ex LBG is indeed busy, it doesn't mean the 18.35 isn't.
So much green in that picture kind of implies that there is still a lot of fresh air being conveyed at peak time.
 

Class 170101

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XC have absolutely decimated the service out of Glasgow Central, from a train roughly every 2 hours, to just 1tpd in each direction south of the border.

Atleast the northbound service is booked a HST though!
Might as well hand it back to LNER as XC need the diesel trains for their routes south to cover for the loss of the HSTs later in the year.

The main reason for the link was there was seen to be a (reasonable) flow from Yorkshire to the Glasgow and to the west of Scotland.
 
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