May 2023 changes

[The Planner]

presumably this will the original bid timetable before DfT set operators the challenge to cut costs so can't be totally relied upon to be the one that operators finally publish.

Pretty much, trains are going to be taken out of it.

 

[Bald Rick]

presumably this will the original bid timetable before DfT set operators the challenge to cut costs so can't be totally relied upon to be the one that operators finally publish.

Yes that’s right, although some operators‘ Business plan changes will be already in, eg Cross Country.

 

[g22]

Northern, South Eastern, Southern, Thameslink, ScotRail seem to be in Real Time Trains this evening. The base TT that is, before any further cuts I presume.

 

[PGAT]

Northern, South Eastern, Southern, Thameslink, ScotRail seem to be in Real Time Trains this evening. The base TT that is, before any further cuts I presume.

Indeed, I suspect there may be more changes in carriage formations

 

[WizCastro197]

Indeed, I suspect there may be more changes in carriage formations

There probably will be considering the departure of the 313s and the never filled hole left by the the 455 retirement, it was just poorly covered up and Southern pretended all was normal. I suspect Victoria- Portsmouth/Southampton and Bognor Regis will be reduced to 8 coaches as they are the smallest carriage formation you can use with the split involved. I am sure others will be reduced to 4 coaches.

 

[Bald Rick]

It will be out next week or the week after in public sites such as Realtime trains.

At least two, maybe three, weeks.

Like I said last week…

Northern, South Eastern, Southern, Thameslink, ScotRail seem to be in Real Time Trains this evening. The base TT that is, before any further cuts I presume.

 

[Class 466]

Northern, South Eastern, Southern, Thameslink, ScotRail seem to be in Real Time Trains this evening. The base TT that is, before any further cuts I presume.

Spotted on TL are 9Rs terminating at Luton instead of Bedford on Weekday evenings and 9Ps terminating at Kentish Town instead of Luton also.
The 9Rs run to Horsham (extended from Three Bridges) all day on Sundays with the 9J London Bridge to Horsham service withdrawn. Probably other cuts in there that I haven't spotted.

 

[Brubulus]

I know it's slightly unrelated, but where is GWRs 80x fleet availability at now? They're going to need at least 90% to run enough coaches on most services after May...

 

[bramling]

Spotted on TL are 9Rs terminating at Luton instead of Bedford on Weekday evenings and 9Ps terminating at Kentish Town instead of Luton also.
The 9Rs run to Horsham (extended from Three Bridges) all day on Sundays with the 9J London Bridge to Horsham service withdrawn. Probably other cuts in there that I haven't spotted.

As predicted, the KX/Cambridge stopping service is again interworking with the Ely and Kings Lynn services, which will bring 387s to the stopping services, and (presumably?) some 700 working north of Cambridge. The stopping services are also shown as calling at Alexandra Palace, which was in the original May 23 consultation timetable draft. Also the hourly Letchworth terminators have swapped half hour. As was also predicted, the stopping service is now branded GN.

The stopping service reverts to half hourly in the evening, ending the ridiculous practice of having the Brighton-Cambridge services serve Welwyn etc.

One morning change is that the 0603 KX to Cambridge service is withdrawn but replaced by a Kings Lynn service calling at the various intermediate stations.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I do hope that southeastern have finally reinstated the second high-speed service for the Medway towns. There's certainly the demand for it and presumably train crew issues are less SL quid then they were a year ago

 

[jonnyfan]

From what I can see in terms of Northern, on the West side, the timetable is pretty much identical, the main change being Headbolt Lane opening.
On the East side, some reductions
The remaining Huddersfield to Castleford services are withdrawn
Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg becomes a daily Mon-Fri service. Saturday services withdrawn
The early Whitby service is withdrawn
That's all I've noticed so far.

 

[Peter0124]

Not all of the Scotrail services have been added. A lot of the departures leaving Glasgow Central are missing. Probably a glitch.

But from what I can see so far Mon-Fri: Cathcart Circle is back for an extra two hours in the morning (till 11am).
Gourock fasts look to be scrapped outside of peak hours.
Ayr services now run semi-fast, with the Largs/Ardrossan services running all stop. No increase in freq on Ayr route.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would have hoped for a return of a 15-minute frequency on on the Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street via Falkirk as the demand is definitely there now, despite what the Scottish government keep saying

 

[JonathanH]

as the demand is definitely there now

Are passengers regularly having to stand for the entire journey at times when the service is half hourly?

 

[InkyScrolls]

From what I can see in terms of Northern, on the West side, the timetable is pretty much identical, the main change being Headbolt Lane opening.
On the East side, some reductions
The remaining Huddersfield to Castleford services are withdrawn
Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg becomes a daily Mon-Fri service. Saturday services withdrawn
The early Whitby service is withdrawn
That's all I've noticed so far.

A marginal improvement for Brigg, then? At least they appear to be timed to suit a lunchtime visit to Cleethorpes.

 

[Ex-controller]

Not all of the Scotrail services have been added. A lot of the departures leaving Glasgow Central are missing. Probably a glitch

But from what I can see so far Mon-Fri: Cathcart Circle is back for an extra two hours in the morning (till 11am).
Gourock fasts look to be scrapped outside of peak hours.
Ayr services now run semi-fast, with the Largs/Ardrossan services running all stop. No increase in freq on Ayr route.

I would hope the lack of Gourock expresses and the inconsistent Cathcart Circle services are part of that glitch you mention.

I fear not though - Gourock losing the expresses would be pretty bad. They’ve existed ever since electrification in the 1960s and would make the train less attractive for Inverclyde when it’s got a direct motorway link to Glasgow. Not good.

The recast of the Ayr services makes sense although I think the Largs services could’ve been speeded up a bit. When they used to follow this pattern they’d usually miss out Howwood and Lochwinnoch.

I wish if they were reintroducing the Cathcart circles, just bring them all back and be done with it rather than be so piecemeal.

 

[yorksrob]

From what I can see in terms of Northern, on the West side, the timetable is pretty much identical, the main change being Headbolt Lane opening.
On the East side, some reductions
The remaining Huddersfield to Castleford services are withdrawn
Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg becomes a daily Mon-Fri service. Saturday services withdrawn
The early Whitby service is withdrawn
That's all I've noticed so far.

So we've gone from a full day service on Huddersfield - Castleford, to peak tim only RRB, to peak time only train and now to no train at all. What a pathetic shambles.

I was on one of these peaks between Wakefield and Normanton yesterday and it was busy considering.

I wonder what timetabling disaster will befall LNER passengers.

 

[Kite159]

A marginal improvement for Brigg, then? At least they appear to be timed to suit a lunchtime visit to Cleethorpes.

I would say if the Saturday trains are axed it will be a backwards step, a token weekday return during the middle of the day is as much use as a chocolate teapot for the stations on the Brigg line. Might see some end to end use during summer holidays

 

[43074]

The full Elizabeth Line timetable is downstream for May too. Shenfield to Heathrow trains call at Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hayes & Harlington, Heathrow Terminal 1-3 & Heathrow Terminal 5 west of Paddington.

 

[James H]

On Thameslink the 0822 Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City is cut back to terminate at Finsbury Park

 

[Galvanize]

The peak hour morning Littlehampton-London Bridge and corresponding return run in the evening now appears to be a Southern service instead of Thameslink!

 

[iphone76]

The full Elizabeth Line timetable is downstream for May too. Shenfield to Heathrow trains call at Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hayes & Harlington, Heathrow Terminal 1-3 & Heathrow Terminal 5 west of Paddington.

I was surprised to see only 2 trains per hour off peak from Shenfield going further West than Paddington.

 

[Minstral25]

Spotted on TL are 9Rs terminating at Luton instead of Bedford on Weekday evenings and 9Ps terminating at Kentish Town instead of Luton also.
The 9Rs run to Horsham (extended from Three Bridges) all day on Sundays with the 9J London Bridge to Horsham service withdrawn. Probably other cuts in there that I haven't spotted.

The 9J withdrawal could be good news along the Redhill route - too often on a Sunday with engineering on the Bedford route or in the core, all the 9R's are withdrawn, and the 9J has been left as the only service running, thus leaving a London Bridge terminator as the only Thameslink service running through the route but not even to the core. Now hopefully when there is engineering they will have to run both at least as far as London Bridge, hopefully West Hampstead or Luton and thus a more consistent half-hourly Sunday service for Redhill.

 

[YorksLad12]

So we've gone from a full day service on Huddersfield - Castleford, to peak tim only RRB, to peak time only train and now to no train at all. What a pathetic shambles.

I was on one of these peaks between Wakefield and Normanton yesterday and it was busy considering.

Is it a resource (staff/unit) issue, or just that Northern don't want to run it? If the former, there's no point in offering to fund it until TPE take over (allegedly) in December.

 

[yorksrob]

Is it a resource (staff/unit) issue, or just that Northern don't want to run it? If the former, there's no point in offering to fund it until TPE take over (allegedly) in December.

Well, they've been running the peak service recently. I'm not party to Northern's thinking.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was surprised to see only 2 trains per hour off peak from Shenfield going further West than Paddington.

You shouldn’t be surprised - looking at many years of service proposals there was never an intention to run significant numbers of trains from Shenfield to destinations west of Paddington. This has been discussed many times in the various dedicated Crossrail threads.

 

[MikeWM]

As predicted, the KX/Cambridge stopping service is again interworking with the Ely and Kings Lynn services, which will bring 387s to the stopping services, and (presumably?) some 700 working north of Cambridge.

Oh, well that'll be just lovely

One morning change is that the 0603 KX to Cambridge service is withdrawn but replaced by a Kings Lynn service calling at the various intermediate stations.

I note Kings Lynn finally gets back its 0812-or-thereabouts departure to KGX rather than it starting at Ely. Amazed it has taken this long. The 0947 (moved to 0948) still starts at Ely, but that probably doesn't need to start back at Lynn, it was only extended there fairly recently (summer 2018 I think).

 

[Grumpy Git]

Sorry in advance if this is in the wrong section (or off-topic), but I was travelling home to Liverpool this morning, changing at Crewe and was astounded to see that the two fast services are timed to depart only a few minutes apart at approx. 20 past (Avanti) and half-past (LNW) the hour? Who comes up with these schedules?

Also what used to be a wait at Crewe of 32 minutes for the Derby train (when arriving at Crewe from Liverpool on the LNW service), is now a 52 minute wait. Talk about inconvenient!

Is there likely to be any improvement to the ex. Liverpool Avanti v LNW arrival/departures at Crewe in May?

 

[PGAT]

Brent Cross West is also an official scheduled stop from May.

On Southern there are also additional services on the East Grinstead Route:

0920 London Victoria - East Grinstead
1036 East Grinstead - London Victoria
2250 London Victoria - East Grinstead

 

[Robski_]

Some timetable improvements have been made in the Finsbury Park area - Northbound Cambridge fast TL's are no longer booked to wait there for up to 6 minutes (which suggests that LNER have amended their timetable, as they were being held to let LNER services through).