May 2023 changes

[Jez]

I always wonder where you get your information from. The publications did say they'd be booked for double 153s in the interim, and booked 2-197 from May 24.
Either way, my comment was me wondering whether they'd actually stick to that. I'm willing to bet it produces 150s more often than not.

There are some booked workings for 197s on Swanline from May 2023 (the two that run through to Chester I think) but these likely to be replaced with another unit at first as 197s not ready for the South just yet.

May 2024 is when the entire Swanline timetable should be 197s.

 

[Geeves]

Interesting that the late trains from Manchester to Slaithwaite will be serviced by a Liverpool to Huddersfield service from Victoria.

A couple of the later ones are in the current timetable already running through from Liverpool to Huddersfield. As you'd expect it barely if ever runs. I think I can count on one hand since last May it's run and it was zero the first 6 months.

 

[CAF397]

They only started from Liverpool in the December 2022 TT change, when the Hull services switched to Liverpool. Prior to that the late stoppers were a combination of Hull services from Piccadilly, or very late Piccadilly-Huddersfield.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It never was on 5 diagrams. It's timetabled for 5, and it was hoped that during the current timetable period it would be possible to increase the diagrams up to 5, but that didn't prove possible for various reasons. Getting an the sets ready for service took a while, and there was still a level of training required to get enough crews in place to support the extra services.
It's diagrammed for 3, and sometimes there have been adhoc additional services worked to get the sets in the right place. It goes up to 4 on Monday, and hopefully 5 in June.

Hopefully they’ll be able to achieve this - only 2 sets out today

 

[Snow1964]

GWR press release on the changes.

Usual PR spin emphasising increases, staying silent on cuts, and shorter formations

Biggest timetable shake-up in almost five years as GWR responds to changes in passenger travel patterns

The biggest shake-up to railway timetables since the introduction of Intercity Express Trains is coming this May, as GWR responds to changes in passenger travel patterns.

news.gwr.com

The biggest shake-up to railway timetables since the introduction of Intercity Express Trains is coming this May, as GWR responds to changes in passenger travel patterns.

Following an extensive review to give those travelling the right services at the times they wish to travel, the new timetable which comes in from this Sunday will deliver almost a 5% increase in train services every day across the GWR network.
Responding to changes in demand for leisure travel, GWR has reviewed its South-West timetable to develop support for this important market.  

Bit cheeky to claim a 5% increase when some services like Great Malvern / Worcester to Weymouth etc are no longer through trains, but 2 shorter services.
Did vehicle miles increase since their 2019 comparison.

.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Bit cheeky to claim a 5% increase when some services like Great Malvern / Worcester to Weymouth etc are no longer through trains, but 2 shorter services.
Did vehicle miles increase since their 2019 comparison.

Weymouth services remain as through trains from Gloucester in the May 2023 change which is no different to today.

Yes the Warminster/Westbury services to Worcester are cut back to Gloucester.

There were very few through journeys made Westbury to Worcester but the cross Bristol links between Westbury / Bath and Bristol Parkway / Gloucester are retained with one through journey an hour as per today.

Currently you have:
1tph Westbury to Gloucester (starting back from Weymouth every 0.5tph and extending to Worcester every 0.5tph) and no other workings.

This is replaced by:
Still 1tph Westbury to Gloucester (still starting back from Weymouth every 0.5tph)

1tph Salisbury to Bristol TM
1tph Bristol TM to Worcester

Leaving aside the Pompey/Cardiff services it is still a doubling of trains between Westbury and Bristol and Bristol and Gloucester yet retaining an hourly through service as today!

I’m not sure I understand your point. Services aren’t being cut in half!

 

[Birmingham]

Bristol to Worcester going hourly is a great boon and imo those complaining that these services will no longer come from/go further south are failing to see the bigger picture.

 

[LowLevel]

Bristol to Worcester going hourly is a great boon and imo those complaining that these services will no longer come from/go further south are failing to see the bigger picture.

I agree - that's something that has been aspired to for many years, right back to about 15 years ago with London Midland trialling their shuttle service from Worcester to Gloucester. Hopefully it running through to Bristol will make it attractive enough to work this time.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Bristol to Worcester going hourly is a great boon and imo those complaining that these services will no longer come from/go further south are failing to see the bigger picture.

Indeed and part of the reason it’s the Gloucester trains which continue to run across Bristol but the Worcester trains terminate at Bristol is some of the Worcester services will be 80x.

 

[mangyiscute]

I agree - that's something that has been aspired to for many years, right back to about 15 years ago with London Midland trialling their shuttle service from Worcester to Gloucester. Hopefully it running through to Bristol will make it attractive enough to work this time.

Will be interesting to see if passengers stick on the direct service or change onto the XC at Cheltenham

 

[Techniquest]

Bristol to Worcester going hourly is a great boon and imo those complaining that these services will no longer come from/go further south are failing to see the bigger picture.

That is good news, it's going to make some of my planned trips much easier If I have to change south of Gloucester that's not too bad. If the weather's good next week I'll have to make the most of it and have a journey to Ashchurch!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Indeed and part of the reason it’s the Gloucester trains which continue to run across Bristol but the Worcester trains terminate at Bristol is some of the Worcester services will be 80x.

From memory it's one diagram until September only, thereafter covered by a DMU.

 

[FS-2-11]

With the ending of the SuO Edinburgh-Oban service in the new ScotRail timetable, what passenger services will operate over the Cowlairs East Jn to Cowlairs North Jn curve now? I thought the Oban was a Parliamentary for this.

 

[Watershed]

With the ending of the SuO Edinburgh-Oban service in the new ScotRail timetable, what passenger services will operate over the Cowlairs East Jn to Cowlairs North Jn curve now? I thought the Oban was a Parliamentary for this.

None. There's no real penalty for failing to comply with the correct closure procedure though.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

None. There's no real penalty for failing to comply with the correct closure procedure though.

Does the Fort William sleeper ever use this connection or does it always run via Queen Street Low Level these days.

 

[zwk500]

None. There's no real penalty for failing to comply with the correct closure procedure though.

The formal closure process may also be different under scottish legislation. And the failure to run any services over the line may not necessarily trigger the closure process.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Does the Fort William sleeper ever use this connection or does it always run via Queen Street Low Level these days.

Yes it does sometimes run via Falkirk and use the junctions at Cowlairs. If I have copied the link ok then it did so last Tuesday - the gap between Newbridge Jn. and Westerton is the evidence.

Realtime Trains | 1Y11 2115 London Euston to Fort William | 16/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Y11 2115 departure from London Euston to Fort William on 16/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[70014IronDuke]

Skegness - Grantham.

Don't know if this has been noted upthread, but on weekdays the 18.15 ex Skeggy, 2O26, appears to have gained a stop at Hubberts Bridge (19.02).

But not on Saturdays. A bit random, seemingly?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Skegness - Grantham.

Don't know if this has been noted upthread, but on weekdays the 18.15 ex Skeggy, 2O26, appears to have gained a stop at Hubberts Bridge (19.02).

But not on Saturdays. A bit random, seemingly?

Perhaps local stakeholders have asked specifically for it? Sometimes these things don’t filter through to the weekend dependent on purpose/usage.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why's it a 221? I thought it was a 390 after the knitting went up on the Blackpool North line.

It could well be a 10-car 805 when they start service (2x5-car). Or a 7-car 807.
Either way on electric throughout.
It will be 805s if it has to interwork with Holyhead/Shrewsbury services, like it did until yesterday*.

* Apparently it still does in the new timetable.
The loss of the early Holyhead-Euston is a bit mean (no connection from Chester either), but it does mean there is a later through train (0823 from Chester).

 

[Mamorin]

I feel disappointed that Congleton did not get its limited XC services back, however when compared to the December 2022 timetable change Congleton has done quite well in this timetable change.

 

[Dan G]

BBC radio (can't find an online article) is reporting the start of the new timetable, emphasising in particular the 5% increase in weekly services from GWR – 44 per week around Bristol and 65 in South Wales.

I've seen some people claiming that the DfT is cutting funding and thus services and "DfT cuts of 10%" has become something of a mantra. But the evidence doesn't near that out, unless person are claiming GWR is lying in its press release – which would be bold.

"The number of GWR services on an average weekday will increase from 1643 in May 2019 to 1720 in May 2023." https://news.gwr.com/news/65-extra-...uth-wales-as-gwr-introduces-new-may-timetable

 

[JonathanH]

I've seen some people claiming that the DfT is cutting funding and thus services and "DfT cuts of 10%" has become something of a mantra. But the evidence doesn't near that out, unless person are claiming GWR is lying in its press release – which would be bold.

Isn't the funding for the GWR changes coming from another source - eg the Metrowest project? Some cuts have been made - eg a peak diagram on the North Downs line, cutting train formations etc to allow for the enhancement.

 

[DylanThomas]

More info on GWR changes

 

[JonathanH]

"The number of GWR services on an average weekday will increase from 1643 in May 2019 to 1720 in May 2023."

Notably, if you cut a train service into two separate legs, you can claim to be running two trains rather than one. GWR doubled the number of trains between London and Bedwyn by forcing a change from 387 to 165 at Newbury instead of running a through train. Not to say that there aren't enhancements but there are also things you can do with presentation of figures.

 

[Goldfish62]

More info on GWR changes

Thanks!

 

[mangyiscute]

I don't understand the logic behind every bristol train stopping at didcot when travelling Bristol - London, but only half of the Bristol trains stop at Didcot when travelling London to Bristol. It's not like the Cheltenham train even gives a good connection, as it leaves Didcot 5 minutes after the non stop one goes through

 

[Peter0124]

Well hopefully the 3rd train per hour from Euston to Birmingham returns in December.

 

[Bletchleyite]

More info on GWR changes

The lack of resilience in that is very concerning. No spare unit for the Thames Valley branches for instance? Almost all 10 cars to split/join during the day?

I predict a mess when someone sneezes on it.

 

[JonathanH]

No spare unit for the Thames Valley branches for instance?

Is that true? What has happened is removal of a working diagram, not a change in the unrostered units.