May 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed Changes Only

[jfollows]

1R19 07:00 Manchester-London is no longer in the new timetable, having only been re-introduced recently.

 

[hexagon789]

1R19 07:00 Manchester-London is no longer in the new timetable, having only been re-introduced recently.

It was suggested upthread that Avanti wasn't complete yet

 

[jfollows]

It was suggested upthread that Avanti wasn't complete yet

Yup, good point.

 

[trundlewagon]

Malvern - Snow Hill - Stratford returns with WMR after a hiatus of several years at the timetable change with a SuO 09.08 Great Malvern - Stratford on Avon.

Was only ever a handful of services per week, but the rumour of the Malvern services from Snow Hill coming back keeps popping up. Maybe this is a tentative first step in that direction.

Haven't noticed any other changes for WMR services around Birmingham.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

1R19 07:00 Manchester-London is no longer in the new timetable, having only been re-introduced recently.

That’s because some of the timetable is still being finalised so not all trains have been ‘published’ yet.

12 weeks out is the confirmed timetable.

 

[moonarrow458]

A few small changes on the Maidstone East Line on Monday to Fridays:

06:44 Maidstone East to Charing Cross is extended back to start in service from Ashford at 06:18 calling only at Bearsted before Maidstone East.

07:44 Maidstone East to Charing Cross is extended back to start in service from Ashford at 07:05 calling at all stations to Maidstone East

The 23:29 Charing Cross to Maidstone East (runs from Cannon Street at 23:33 on Monday and Tuesday nights) will be extended in service to Ashford calling at all stations beyond Maidstone East to set down only.

These services previously ran empty between Ashford and Maidstone East (and vice versa)

 

[Ridercross]

Malvern - Snow Hill - Stratford returns with WMR after a hiatus of several years at the timetable change with a SuO 09.08 Great Malvern - Stratford on Avon.

On the face of it good news. However, this particular train currently starts at Worcester and is often standing room only as it gets closer to Snow Hill. This is because it's the first Sunday morning train into Birmingham on the Stourbridge line, so adding extra passengers from Malvern is going to make things worse !

 

[Goldfish62]

I've just noticed on GWR the Penzance-Cardiff thought services no longer operate, terminating at Exeter St David's instead. Plus, the retimed Cross Country services act as stoppers in Cornwall instead of GWR services rather than being limited stop additional services as they are now.

So overall, a bit of reduction for Cornwall compares with now, although presumably it frees up rolling stock for elsewhere.

 

[DaveHarries]

I've just noticed on GWR the Penzance-Cardiff thought services no longer operate, terminating at Exeter St David's instead. Plus, the retimed Cross Country services act as stoppers in Cornwall instead of GWR services rather than being limited stop additional services as they are now.

I see that 2C87 (18:00 Cardiff Central - Penzance) is still included for 22nd May.

Meanwhile I see from RTT that, when comparing the new May TT with the TT for 28th January, that the May TT has Penzance - Exeter St. Davids services operating within about 5 minutes or so of the Penzance - Cardiff Central ones: not all of them connect with each other at the Exeter end.

On a similar note, however, for 22nd May the 19:00 Cardiff - Exeter SD terminates in Platform 6 at Exeter at 21:25 and the next working is the 21:31 Exeter SD - Penzance; presumably the same unit for both workings but with a 6 minute layover. Likewise the 19:15 Penzance- Exeter SD terminates in Platform 6 at Exeter SD @ 22:37 and the next train from that platform is the 22:43 Exeter SD - Bristol TM: surely it would make sense to run them as through workings?

Dave

 

[Topological]

I've just noticed on GWR the Penzance-Cardiff thought services no longer operate, terminating at Exeter St David's instead. Plus, the retimed Cross Country services act as stoppers in Cornwall instead of GWR services rather than being limited stop additional services as they are now.

So overall, a bit of reduction for Cornwall compares with now, although presumably it frees up rolling stock for elsewhere.

Isn't this the long-discussed split to allow the introduction of the 175s on the Cornwall end?

I do wish that more effort was made to make split services connect with each other (we had the same with TfW splitting the Manchester to South Wales at Cardiff)

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Isn't this the long-discussed split to allow the introduction of the 175s on the Cornwall end?

I do wish that more effort was made to make split services connect with each other (we had the same with TfW splitting the Manchester to South Wales at Cardiff)

The problem at Exeter St David’s is a lack of platforms. The east-facing bay is not long enough for a 5-car Class 80x and therefore platform 6 is doing quite a bit of legwork.

 

[DaveHarries]

Isn't this the long-discussed split to allow the introduction of the 175s on the Cornwall end?

Possible I suppose although I wonder if they will get the 175s in service that quickly. However I see, further to my reply in post 219, that the 19:15 Penzance - Exeter SD and 22:43 Exeter SD -Bristol TM are both shown as Class 800 / 802 but that may, of course, change: let us wait and see.

Dave

 

[Topological]

Possible I suppose although I wonder if they will get the 175s in service that quickly. However I see, further to my reply in post 219, that the 19:15 Penzance - Exeter SD and 22:43 Exeter SD -Bristol TM are both shown as Class 800 / 802 but that may, of course, change: let us wait and see.

Dave

That is not to say that the 175s are starting on the timetable change. However, the split does allow for the introduction of 175s at some point before December.

There may be some balancing moves using 80x as well amongst it all.

I just remember that on the 175 to GWR thread there was a lot of discussion about needing to split the Cardiff to Penzance train to accommodate training and traction knowledge.

 

[GW43125]

Interestingly, whilst pretty much the entirety of GWR is in, no trains are showing on the Newquay branch for the Whitsun bank holiday weekend... Hope it's just an incomplete upload.

The splitting of services and breaking of connections at Exeter is a little bit rubbish though.

 

[Goldfish62]

I just remember that on the 175 to GWR thread there was a lot of discussion about needing to split the Cardiff to Penzance train to accommodate training and traction knowledge.

So a purely operational led decision. Passengers are irrelevant.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So a purely operational led decision. Passengers are irrelevant.

Nope, because the passengers need an operational railway for trains to run to allow them to travel.

As been mentioned in previous posts this is the only realistic way of delivering traincrew training and this delivering a train service on the day.

Interestingly, whilst pretty much the entirety of GWR is in, no trains are showing on the Newquay branch for the Whitsun bank holiday weekend... Hope it's just an incomplete upload.

We are still more than the 12 weeks ahead for the confirmed train service for that weekend.

Just be patient, not all the timetable is finalised yet.

 

[Goldfish62]

Nope, because the passengers need an operational railway for trains to run to allow them to travel.

That's a really operationally-led comment.

You know what's going to happen. With our increasingly unreliable railway connections are going to be missed on a regular basis.

 

[Topological]

So a purely operational led decision. Passengers are irrelevant.

Not as bad as TfW splitting South Wales to Manchester because the trains they decided to use for some Manchester services cannot do the full route on a tank of fuel. At least this is about training and getting more trains into service.

 

[JRT]

I've had a look at the BDQ-KGX services

Arrives xx:52 ish, departs xx:16/17 but stops at BDQ for about 1hr 25 mins, works the PBO calling pattern instead of the GRA/SVG that the Harrogate trains do. Trains leave Leeds to London 30 minutes before the Harrogate trains to London

Uses platform 1

BDQ = Bradford Forster Square
KGX = London Kings Cross
PBO = Peterborough
GRA = Grantham
SVG = Stevenage

According to RTT, existing trains currently running between King's Cross and Forster Square will continue to operate as the present schedule & stopping pattern (including Shipley Platform 3) after the timetable change, including 1A26▪ and 1D30 on Sundays.

Additional trains
London – Bradford

Sundays

KGX 14:03▪︎ (calling principal stations)
BDQ 17:31▪︎ (GRA & SVG)

Mondays to Saturdays
EVERY TWO HOURS
These trains call at PBO

KGX 07:03 09:03 11:03 13:03 15:03▪︎
(unadvertised call at Shipley Platform 4)

BDQ (P1) 11:17 13:17 15:16 17:16 19:15▪︎
(the 19:15▪︎ doesn't call at Shipley)

▪︎ InterCity 225

More observations about West Yorkshire; These LNER services to Bradford appear to be disrupting a couple of Wharfedale line services. The 15:21 from Ilkley to Bradford Forster Square will have a 5 minute dwell at Shipley as it will arrive on platform 3 as an LNER service will use platform 4, which in turn means that it conflicts with a Bradford to Skipton service, so it can only leave once that has crawled into the platform.

That's not unusual at Shipley. At present, the Bradford – Leeds stopper can't leave until the Leeds – Skipton local has arrived at platform 2. The Bradford – Skipton arrives early as dwell time is longer on platform 5.

 

[xotGD]

KGX 07:03 09:03 11:03 13:03 15:03▪︎

The 15.03 forms a handy 17.31 commuter service off Leeds. With the bonus of loco-haulage.

 

[Bikeman78]

I see that 2C87 (18:00 Cardiff Central - Penzance) is still included for 22nd May.

Meanwhile I see from RTT that, when comparing the new May TT with the TT for 28th January, that the May TT has Penzance - Exeter St. Davids services operating within about 5 minutes or so of the Penzance - Cardiff Central ones: not all of them connect with each other at the Exeter end.

On a similar note, however, for 22nd May the 19:00 Cardiff - Exeter SD terminates in Platform 6 at Exeter at 21:25 and the next working is the 21:31 Exeter SD - Penzance; presumably the same unit for both workings but with a 6 minute layover. Likewise the 19:15 Penzance- Exeter SD terminates in Platform 6 at Exeter SD @ 22:37 and the next train from that platform is the 22:43 Exeter SD - Bristol TM: surely it would make sense to run them as through workings?

Dave

I have checked a few of the split schedules in the up direction and they all miss at Exeter. The Cardiff part of the journey departs earlier and then hangs about at Taunton or Weston-super-Mare.

 

[Express380]

That's a really operationally-led comment.

With our increasingly unreliable railway connections.

And I'm sorry but going to a 55 minute connection from a direct train to Bristol and Cardiff is awful.

I've frequently used it from Cornwall and is a big loss in my opinion.

 

[Xavi]

And I'm sorry but going to a 55 minute connection from a direct train to Bristol and Cardiff is awful.

I've frequently used it from Cornwall and is a big loss in my opinion.

Definitely, the Cornwall - Bristol / Cardiff through trains have a lot of passengers travelling through Exeter.

Platform 2 at Exeter was to be extended to allow the 5-car IETs to/from Cardiff to turnaround there. This would have enabled minimum EXD 6-minute connection to/from the Penzance trains to be maintained (rather than hold the Cardiff-bound services at Taunton for 7 minutes), but the Treasury pulled the funding after the project commenced, hence both the Penzance and Cardiff trains must use Platform 6.

 

[dk1]

And I'm sorry but going to a 55 minute connection from a direct train to Bristol and Cardiff is awful.

I've frequently used it from Cornwall and is a big loss in my opinion.

Apart from Weston or Cardiff, why would you have to wait 55mins rather than simply board the next available service heading towards Bristol or Plymouth/Penzance?

 

[Express380]

Apart from Weston or Cardiff, why would you have to wait 55mins rather than simply board the next available service heading towards Bristol or Plymouth/Penzance?

Because I regularly travel to Cardiff so I find this rather inconvenient it's not the return journeys as they are direct in the evening it's the journeys from Cornwall that are difficult

 

[berneyarms]

Because I regularly travel to Cardiff so I find this rather inconvenient it's not the return journeys as they are direct in the evening it's the journeys from Cornwall that are difficult

You may not have to wait 55 mins by changing at either Plymouth, Exeter and Taunton and again at Bristol.

 

[shakermaker_86]

Looks like SWR data is appearing now in RTT

 

[InkyScrolls]

Very conveniently for me, 2H03, the 0641 from Bradford to Carnforth (SuX), will from the timetable change continue in service to Lancaster! We've evidently been successful in acquiring the path.

Realtime Trains | 2H03 0641 Bradford Forster Square to Lancaster | 05/06/2025

Real-time train running information for 2H03 0641 departure from Bradford Forster Square to Lancaster on 05/06/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Looks like SWR data is appearing now in RTT

I've only had a very quick look at Windsor lines stuff, but I'm guessing no changes? They can barely operate the current timetable let alone add anything new.

 

[shakermaker_86]

I've only had a very quick look at Windsor lines stuff, but I'm guessing no changes? They can barely operate the current timetable let alone add anything new.

Yeh I've had a quick look at the suburban routes through Epsom, Richmond, Hounslow etc. and can't see any changes at all. I guess the very slow rollout of 701s is preventing any improvement on service frequencies on these routes.