McGill's Buses - Renfrewshire & Inverclyde

[aleckseek]

Other than the 26A (which is fully commercial), these are all correct, for at least one trip a day - yes, I’m looking at you no.30
I haven’t checked to see if you’ve missed any, but it looks fairly comprehensive.

Is this correct? I believe the 26A is subsidised and I thought it was quite strange, especially since it avoids a few stops and therefore isn’t really a replacement for the 757 to Inchinnan.

The 26A does fill in some gaps in the timetable between Fairway Ave, etc., and Paisley; it just isn’t obvious at all because you have to board a 26 in the opposite direction to Nethercraigs and stay on to town as the 26A. New bus stops were installed on Park Road even though I doubt anyone has ever got on there.

Shows as being supported by SPT on bustimes: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PM0000015/299

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is this correct? I believe the 26A is subsidised and I thought it was quite strange, especially since it avoids the Gilmour Street station stop and therefore isn’t really a replacement for the 757 to Inchinnan.

The 26A does fill in some gaps in the timetable between Fairway Ave, etc., and Paisley; it just isn’t obvious at all because you have to board a 26 in the opposite direction to Nethercraigs and stay on to town as the 26A. New bus stops were installed on Park Road even though I doubt anyone has ever got on there.

Shows as being supported by SPT on bustimes: https://bustimes.org/registrations/PM0000015/299

I'm not sure why the 26A would be subsidised?.. The route only exists to allow buses to get from Inchinnan Depot to Nethercraigs to work on to / off the 26.

 

[voidwxrranty]

I'm not sure why the 26A would be subsidised?.. The route only exists to allow buses to get from Inchinnan Depot to Nethercraigs to work on to / off the 26.

And that one that leaves Paisley at 22:00ish comes off the 264.

 

[Jordan Adam]

And that one that leaves Paisley at 22:00ish comes off the 264.

Even still though, the point still remains that the route only exists as placing journeys for buses to get to/from the depot rather than running them dead.

 

[Stan Drews]

Even still though, the point still remains that the route only exists as placing journeys for buses to get to/from the depot rather than running them dead.

That’s exactly what the 26A does. Gets buses to/from the depot. The 23D serves the same purpose for the Erskine routes, the 51A for a number of routes run by Johnstone, and the 801/2/3 at Greenock.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

3359 is VOR (vehicle off road) at the moment. Its engine died back in October.

3359 is now in Midland Bluebird livery and is in Blackpool this weekend.

 

[voidwxrranty]

3359 is now in Midland Bluebird livery and is in Blackpool this weekend.

Yes I am aware.

8001/2/3/48 have returned West, with future unknown, but 0105 is earmarked for transfer to Inchinnan.

 

[E400Lover101]

I've noticed that 8034 is tracking on the M7. does that mean 8430 has broke down?

There could be another reason behind it, but I'm only wondering what happened to 8430.

 

[YX65 RDY]

8430 is still in service; it's just Johnstone being their usual with allocations.

 

[E400Lover101]

Fair, once an MMC got allocated to the M7.

 

[voidwxrranty]

Fair, once an MMC got allocated to the M7.

That was a 200 Classic with 4210’s ticketer

 

[Stan Drews]

That was a 200 Classic with 4210’s ticketer

The M7 did see a Yutong on one of its first days of operation.

 

[voidwxrranty]

The M7 did see a Yutong on one of its first days of operation.

Yep, I would’ve went and photoed it but I was ill

 

[NIT100]

Below is an interesting route one article.

Glasgow bus franchising advocacy draws furious McGill’s response

Haven't quoted the whole article but below is a small extract:

Glasgow bus franchising ‘from the Vladimir Putin playbook’​

Mr Easdale responded to the report’s publication in remarkable fashion. He describes the reregulation of bus services described within it as “businesses confiscation, straight out of the Vladimir Putin paybook.”

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Below is an interesting route one article.

Glasgow bus franchising advocacy draws furious McGill’s response

Haven't quoted the whole article but below is a small extract:

of course they don’t want to lose control, the money they be funnelling in there own direction probably isn’t a small number.

A public service should NEVER be at the say so of Private Hands.

 

[markymark2000]

of course they don’t want to lose control, the money they be funnelling in there own direction probably isn’t a small number.

A public service should NEVER be at the say so of Private Hands.

And if we look at the shambolic Bee Network which has more issues than the private network, running down of a core corridor (V1) to put the buses elsewhere. Or we could look at the amount of overpaid, underworked twits at TFL who take years to make basic changes to services who run lengthy consultations only to ignore all of the responses. OR perhaps review SPT who have the worse tendered bus network imaginable full of routes which only run once or twice because SPT refuse to connect tenders into the core routes, in a number of cases funding services which largely duplicate over existing commercial routes. I don't know, maybe under SPTs control, there will be no buses on Sundays, well after all, they can't manage to make the Subway run on Sundays so maybe buses will go the same way! Alternatively maybe we could look at Transport for Wales who can't run a train service.

Public transport should NEVER be in public hands.

There are two sides to this and we can very, VERY easily start going into the huge flaws of publicly run transport networks. Neither public or private control are faultless but given the track record of SPT versus private operators, I know who I would prefer.

 

[GusB]

If anyone wants to discuss Easdale's comments in the article mentioned in post #1454, please start a new thread. It's not directly related to the operations of McGill's, so it's off topic for this thread. Thanks

 

[roadierway77]

I wonder if there's the potential for a frequency increase on the Clyde Flyer? Obviously that would be resource-dependent but I travel fairly regularly to and from Inverclyde and during the day the 901 and 906 tend to be very busy - the last few times I've been on board Glasgow-bound services it's been full and standing. It's also especially busy during the cruise season. I'd posit that while still busy, the lower frequencies and longer journey times of the railway post-Covid has done wonders for the Clyde Flyer as the bus now has higher frequencies and a more competitive journey time compared to the railway between Inverclyde and Glasgow, without McGill's having to do anything - from my observations a sizeable number of passengers travel all the way from Inverclyde to Glasgow. If the current proposed Inverclyde line timetables come to fruition it'll be interesting to see if that effects Flyer patronage as while the bus will still have the upper hand in terms of frequency, journey time by rail will decrease substantially.

 

[Buzby]

I noticed this too from both Largs and Greenock bus station in recent weeks, however the bulk of passengers were using Scotia cards which gives them free trave. Yes, the train could have been an option but the 10 mile limit before the x2 cost hits continues to make train travel more expensive. The additional U21 market over the last year similarly helps passenger numbers.

 

[WestieBus]

I wonder if there's the potential for a frequency increase on the Clyde Flyer? Obviously that would be resource-dependent but I travel fairly regularly to and from Inverclyde and during the day the 901 and 906 tend to be very busy - the last few times I've been on board Glasgow-bound services it's been full and standing. It's also especially busy during the cruise season. I'd posit that while still busy, the lower frequencies and longer journey times of the railway post-Covid has done wonders for the Clyde Flyer as the bus now has higher frequencies and a more competitive journey time compared to the railway between Inverclyde and Glasgow, without McGill's having to do anything - from my observations a sizeable number of passengers travel all the way from Inverclyde to Glasgow. If the current proposed Inverclyde line timetables come to fruition it'll be interesting to see if that effects Flyer patronage as while the bus will still have the upper hand in terms of frequency, journey time by rail will decrease substantially.

I agree with this, I think frequency should be reduced from 30 minutes to 20 minutes, any 901 I board in any direction is at least almost full.
Another thing is the extremely unreliable train timetable to meet the Dunoon and Kilcreggan ferries, as the train leaves as soon as the ferries dock, forcing people from Dunoon/Kilcreggan to switch to a 901 (which they need to wait approx 5-10 minutes if on time) or wait for the next train (which if I get it right is every 30 minutes)

 

[318266]

I would argue the issue stands with capacity rather than frequency - double decks could work (although I feel E400MMCs wouldn't be the best and can't think of any better double decks), or bendy Citaro Gs (perhaps with Hybrid technology). The capacity of the Citaro N is too low for the current loadings on the ClydeFlyer

 

[overthewater]

Doesn't a high amount of Inverclyde passengers disembark at Braehead shopping centre? Mind you I'm surprised no one has chipped in and complained about standing on a motorway ( which is perfectly legal before we go down that route!)

 

[318266]

Doesn't a high amount of Inverclyde passengers disembark at Braehead shopping centre?

A fair portion do, some for onward connections as well as shopping.

 

[Christmas]

I've thought for a while that another Clyde Flyer from Largs to Glasgow via the Hayley Brae would scoop up hefty loads from the poor ScotRail service from Largs.

Does anyone know if the 904 is now permanently electric? Its just that it had route branded Citaros until fairly recently. Switch 904 branding would look great.

 

[markymark2000]

I've thought for a while that another Clyde Flyer from Largs to Glasgow via the Hayley Brae would scoop up hefty loads from the poor ScotRail service from Largs.

I've always found it odd that McGills don't want a Johnstone or Paisley to Glasgow fast bus (bar the token X21/XP21) and instead push everyone onto the 38 and while that may be good for the 38, it is painful for passengers making such a journey. Extending the 904 to Glasgow could do well. Not sure if it would be a reliability risk though.

 

[sannox]

The issue with fast buses has always been the train competition and traffic congestion on the motorways. They also end up being very 'peaky' busy in the mornings and evenings and dead out with unlike the regular services which have more consistent patronage. This was the issue with the X23.

There was an express bus back in the late 90s from Kilbarchan via Johnstone (I think) and onto to Glasgow but it didn't last too long. Paisley is hard for an express - it has a less than 10 minute rail service to Glasgow in the peaks and it's 10 minutes travel time. You'd be nearer 25-30mins to drive it in the morning peak. The 38 despite taking the slower route is 45 minutes.

 

[roadierway77]

I would argue the issue stands with capacity rather than frequency - double decks could work (although I feel E400MMCs wouldn't be the best and can't think of any better double decks), or bendy Citaro Gs (perhaps with Hybrid technology). The capacity of the Citaro N is too low for the current loadings on the ClydeFlyer

I agree to an extent, however McGill's have kept up their apparent 'no double deckers' policy in the west for a fair while now and I'm not sure how keen they'd be to renege on that - especially as the current electric double deck trials don't seem to be taking place in Inverclyde or Renfrewshire. Plus I'd argue that a higher frequency is more attractive to the average passenger than higher capacity. This would also allow for new routes and new connections - I personally think that connecting the Clyde Flyer to Glasgow Airport and Inverclyde Royal Hospital would be a good idea. It's relatively difficult to get from Inverclyde to Glasgow Airport by public transport, especially if you have large luggage, and I'm honestly surprised no Flyer services call in at IRH, considering how close they pass and that Inverkip, Wemyss Bay and Largs have no direct public transport connection to their nearest major hospital.

However in the scenario of choosing to increase capacity through individual higher capacity vehicles, I'd say that E400MMCs with plenty of luggage space and a high-spec coach style interior would be the best option - something similar to Go North East's X-lines MMCs.

Doesn't a high amount of Inverclyde passengers disembark at Braehead shopping centre?

Braehead is indeed a popular stop from Inverclyde, but the other day I'd say around 60% of passengers continued through to Glasgow itself, and you'll also get plenty of users boarding at Braehead heading into Glasgow as well, as the McGill's services are the fastest method to the city centre by public transport. The 901 I caught last week from Greenock to Glasgow arrived and departed Braehead quite busy, as a healthy number of boarding passengers heading to the city centre replaced those who alighted.

 

[markymark2000]

The issue with fast buses has always been the train competition and traffic congestion on the motorways. They also end up being very 'peaky' busy in the mornings and evenings and dead out with unlike the regular services which have more consistent patronage. This was the issue with the X23.

There was an express bus back in the late 90s from Kilbarchan via Johnstone (I think) and onto to Glasgow but it didn't last too long. Paisley is hard for an express - it has a less than 10 minute rail service to Glasgow in the peaks and it's 10 minutes travel time. You'd be nearer 25-30mins to drive it in the morning peak. The 38 despite taking the slower route is 45 minutes.

That is why you don't simply run a Paisley to Glasgow shuttle, you link it in to something else which perhaps has existing demand and you build on that and offer a lot more people better journeys.

Hypothetically if the 904 was extended, that isn't just a Paisley to Glasgow fast bus but also a faster link through to Johnstone and Largs (About 10 mins quicker than the 901 to Largs) as well giving an extra bus per hour from Beith to Glasgow. That 1 additional bus suddenly becomes so much more than a Paisley to Glasgow fast bus.

 

[Christmas]

A rather good idea extending the 904 to Glasgow as Stagecoach has dropped the ball with the X36.

A 30 minute frequency on the 904 could work, perhaps with one per hour missing out Howwood and Johnstone.

 

[kingston_toon]

I wonder if there's the potential for a frequency increase on the Clyde Flyer? Obviously that would be resource-dependent but I travel fairly regularly to and from Inverclyde and during the day the 901 and 906 tend to be very busy - the last few times I've been on board Glasgow-bound services it's been full and standing. It's also especially busy during the cruise season. I'd posit that while still busy, the lower frequencies and longer journey times of the railway post-Covid has done wonders for the Clyde Flyer as the bus now has higher frequencies and a more competitive journey time compared to the railway between Inverclyde and Glasgow, without McGill's having to do anything - from my observations a sizeable number of passengers travel all the way from Inverclyde to Glasgow. If the current proposed Inverclyde line timetables come to fruition it'll be interesting to see if that effects Flyer patronage as while the bus will still have the upper hand in terms of frequency, journey time by rail will decrease substantially.

I do wonder whether we might be reaching the point where some service enhancements could be considered for Inverclyde? Gourock was mentioned in the franchising thread and as my elderly parents still live there it's somewhere I'm quite familiar with. It wasn't that long ago there were 14 buses per hour between Greenock and Gourock: 6 x 507, 4 x 547, 2 x 901 and 2 x 540 via the hospital. Now that's down to 4bph (2 x 507, 2 x 901) on weekdays and 3bph Saturdays when the 507 drops to hourly. The train frequency has also dropped from 4tph to 2tph as noted. Obviously dermand has dropped since Covid and operators / councils need to work hard to rebuild that but the drop in Gourock really is quite noticeable, especially when the 507 and 901 are scheduled within a few minutes of each other between Greenock and Cardwell Bay for most of the day.

The somewhat haphazard approach to provision of SPT subsidised services has been mentioned at length but one wonders whether an hourly Greenock - hospital - Gourock service through the day might be more useful than the current service which is evenings and Sundays only.