McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

[InOban]

One factor concerning the train services is that from next Monday, and for the next 6 months at least, there will be no peak fares, off-peak fares charged all day. Must attract some commuters away from the much slower buses.

 

[JKP]

My own take is that Lothian should only take on the routes that serve Edinburgh itself and leave the other routes to be sorted out by West Lothian Council. Whilst I accept that WLC are short of money, I cannot help thinking that the Council is also partly to blame in this matter by not taking action to ensure that their residents have a sustainable bus network.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

One factor concerning the train services is that from next Monday, and for the next 6 months at least, there will be no peak fares, off-peak fares charged all day. Must attract some commuters away from the much slower buses.

The All Day Shotts Line Fast services are also returning in December. I wouldn’t expect it to make too much of an impact but it may take a small amount of custom.

 

[Voyager lad]

I actually wonder if Stagecoach could take something? They have their X51 into Livingston, could it extend somewhere to cover a route?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I actually wonder if Stagecoach could take something? They have their X51 into Livingston, could it extend somewhere to cover a route?

An interesting thought. I wouldn’t expect Stagecoach to be interested in anything at the moment, especially given the fact it’s the local stuff that needs to be replaced.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Who was it who said that Lothian Country cutting back after McGills bought out First, was a masterstroke? They turned out to be bang on the money.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’m guessing we can safely assume 8951, 8961-8964 and 8974 will likely be Midland Bluebird bound, possibly as additional capacity for the CitySwift and maybe to replace further Gemini’s?

As for the other vehicles, I think it’s safe to assume it’s the end of the road for them.

 

[Voyager lad]

Ironically, the website still has a job advert for Eastern Scottish drivers - and it still lets you apply!!

 

[stevenedin]

I’m guessing we can safely assume 8951, 8961-8964 and 8974 will likely be Midland Bluebird bound, possibly as additional capacity for the CitySwift and maybe to replace further Gemini’s?

As for the other vehicles, I think it’s safe to assume it’s the end of the road for them.

I think that the StreetLites could either go to Dundee or Midland Bluebird or sold as they have fixed up some of them. They could even sell some back to First.

Some of the longer ones could even replace the B7RLEs at Larbert due to being newer.

Ironically, the website still has a job advert for Eastern Scottish drivers - and it still lets you apply!!

They will still run the 20, 63 and 68 so maybe they are for them or they have kept them up in case there is a load of drivers leaving.

 

[Ding Ding]

An interesting thought. I wouldn’t expect Stagecoach to be interested in anything at the moment, especially given the fact it’s the local stuff that needs to be replaced.

I think people have to read McGill's reason for withdrawing from West Lothian. It clearly states what everyone knew, there is not enough business for two companies to make a profit, simple as that. Lothian should now be able to make a profit, not a big one, but a profit, as they will be the only operator.
It is as clear as that, so Stagecoach or whoever, would also be unable to make a profit.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I think people have to read McGill's reason for withdrawing from West Lothian. It clearly states what everyone knew, there is not enough business for two companies to make a profit, simple as that. Lothian should now be able to make a profit, not a big one, but a profit, as they will be the only operator.
It is as clear as that, so Stagecoach or whoever, would also be unable to make a profit.

You don't make profit if you can’t compete well or even show up but you’d still have all other overhead costs to pay. Brightbus must be making decent money; as for the FlixBus franchise, who knows?

Lothian does have somewhat higher fares for multi use tickets but lower single fares in some areas. They also pay drivers quite a bit more in wages. Not to mention, Lothian Country only have 3 routes currently in Livingston.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Lothians does have somewhat higher fares for multi use tickets but lower single fares in some areas as well as paying drivers quite abit more in wages not to mention Lothian Country only have 3 route currently in Livingston.

Lothian Country also has the decent loads (and presumably revenue) from the 43 too. I’m in no doubt that Lothian could make a complete West Lothian business make money, but not much.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian Country also has the decent loads (and presumably revenue) from the 43 too. I’m in no doubt that Lothian could make a complete West Lothian business make money, but not much.

Keep in mind West Lothian was the best performing area within FirstGroup the year before Lothian entered. So it shows that there is the potential there.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Keep in mind West Lothian was the best performing area within FirstGroup the year before Lothian entered. So it shows that there is the potential there.

It definitely is, but I feel with the current driver shortages it would take some years to build the network up to those sorts of levels again.

Hopefully West Lothian Council can work with the operators to cover everything, but it’s definitely going to be a challenge.

 

[stantheman]

Are any buses on the 20 or 63 in the green and white livery and if so, what are their fleet numbers? Thanks

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Are any buses on the 20 or 63 in the green and white livery and if so, what are their fleet numbers? Thanks

The only single deck bus in the newer style Eastern Scottish livery is StreetLite 0468 and it isn’t out today.

 

[kez19]

This does also put in perspective what was mentioned last week or week before in terms of where did Eastern Scottish go in the recent tweet McGills put up recently ie Xplore Dundee McGills and Midland Bluebird.

On the other hand it possibly has bitten them on the backside if they have a few buses recently with the brand, will they be repainted again/re deployed or scrapped?

 

[overthewater]

Over the course of September what was the breaking point for Eastern Scottish? Since it's clear they were planning on staying, as 35 days ago the company won two tenders to start in October.

Someone said McGills were banking on the council paying them to operate some of the evening and Sunday services they pulled off in May, personally I don't believe that. Everyone knows the council had very little money to start with, plus where was McGills going to get drivers to cover all these new shifts?

I question whether either of these areas even need a subsidy. I think these areas have simply fallen victim to the competition and I think this problem will be resolved soon.

To be fair to Ladywell road West its not had a proper service in over 10 years.

 

[Jordan Adam]

To be fair to Ladywell road West its not had a proper service in over 10 years.

It was served by the Service 27 in recent years.

This does also put in perspective what was mentioned last week or week before in terms of where did Eastern Scottish go in the recent tweet McGills put up recently ie Xplore Dundee McGills and Midland Bluebird.

On the other hand it possibly has bitten them on the backside if they have a few buses recently with the brand, will they be repainted again/re deployed or scrapped?

In fairness if you look back management rarely posted about Eastern Scottish anyway, so it wasn't that much to read in to however it does show where the priority always was. Very few buses were repainted in to the newer Eastern Scottish livery, just the Ex-London E400s and one Streetlite. No doubt the E400s will be redeployed to see off further B7TL Geminis.

At least looking to the positives this will mean that McGill's have lost the Eastern Scottish burden and only now need to focus on rebuilding Dundee and Midland Bluebird networks.

It definitely is, but I feel with the current driver shortages it would take some years to build the network up to those sorts of levels again.

Hopefully West Lothian Council can work with the operators to cover everything, but it’s definitely going to be a challenge.

Agreed, its not going to be an overnight thing but Lothian are much better positioned to take on that challenge than McGill's were and of course the absence of another large bus operator competing for drivers will help.

 

[stevenedin]

It was served by the Service 27 in recent years.

In fairness if you look back management rarely posted about Eastern Scottish anyway, so it wasn't that much to read in to however it does show where the priority always was. Very few buses were repainted in to the newer Eastern Scottish livery, just the Ex-London E400s and one Streetlite. No doubt the E400s will be redeployed to see off further B7TL Geminis.

At least looking to the positives this will mean that McGill's have lost the Eastern Scottish burden and only now need to focus on rebuilding Dundee and Midland Bluebird networks.

Agreed, its not going to be an overnight thing but Lothian are much better positioned to take on that challenge than McGill's were and of course the absence of another large bus operator competing for drivers will help.

I’m curious if they will sell off the rights to the Eastern Scottish name or if it will disappear into history forever.

 

[overthewater]

It was served by the Service 27 in recent years.

I forgot about that route, mind you it never lasted that long did it. Started in January 2020? of course Covid hit and the route never come back did it.

 

[ChrisPJ]

I’m curious if they will sell off the rights to the Eastern Scottish name or if it will disappear into history forever.

It's tainted with the stench of failure and worthless as a brand. It should never have been resurrected, let it die off now.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I wonder if WLC/SPT May ask Citylink to provide a bit of the lost link by the 23 cut. Shotts already has a link in the 34A I think, the 902 could leave at Heartlands as it does now, then go through Harthill and rejoin at the next junction.

 

[JD2168]

Given the amount of cancellations & cutbacks at the Eastern Scottish part it seems not a surprise to me that McGills are withdrawing from the area leaving it to Lothian County. Bright Bus Tours has always seemed like a separate operation so I would think it will keep going alongside the FlixBus work.

 

[Stan Drews]

Over the course of September what was the breaking point for Eastern Scottish? Since it's clear they were planning on staying, as 35 days ago the company won two tenders to start in October.

Someone said McGills were banking on the council paying them to operate some of the evening and Sunday services they pulled off in May, personally I don't believe that. Everyone knows the council had very little money to start with, plus where was McGills going to get drivers to cover all these new shifts?

The May changes were more about reducing the driver requirement, and as WLC had made it clear they had no funding, there was no expectation of the council ‘buying’ anything back.
The tenders were submitted back in late spring/early summer, and the fact that they retained a couple of temporary contracts doesn’t really tell us anything.

 

[Ding Ding]

The May changes were more about reducing the driver requirement, and as WLC had made it clear they had no funding, there was no expectation of the council ‘buying’ anything back.
The tenders were submitted back in late spring/early summer, and the fact that they retained a couple of temporary contracts doesn’t really tell us anything.

Over the course of September what was the breaking point for Eastern Scottish? Since it's clear they were planning on staying, as 35 days ago the company won two tenders to start in October.

Someone said McGills were banking on the council paying them to operate some of the evening and Sunday services they pulled off in May, personally I don't believe that. Everyone knows the council had very little money to start with, plus where was McGills going to get drivers to cover all these new shifts?



To be fair to Ladywell road West its not had a proper service in over 10 years.

McGill's have previous when it comes to withdrawing services, hoping for council intervention. They did exactly the same in Renfrewshire.
All this information is out there. A few minutes research will give you all the answers you need. McGill's whether you believe it or not, did hope for council funding, and had they got it, they would have just run them as they had before, but now with funding. The drivers were already there covering these routes.

 

[Siemens Trains]

McGill's have previous when it comes to withdrawing services, hoping for council intervention. They did exactly the same in Renfrewshire.
All this information is out there. A few minutes research will give you all the answers you need. McGill's whether you believe it or not, did hope for council funding, and had they got it, they would have just run them as they had before, but now with funding. The drivers were already there covering these routes.

Surely the fact that McGill's are no longer in the market shows that withdrawing these services wasn't a game on their part. The journeys weren't commercially viable in their network without a subsidy.

 

[Ding Ding]

Surely the fact that McGill's are no longer in the market shows that withdrawing these services wasn't a game on their part. The journeys weren't commercially viable in their network without a subsidy.

I will make this my last post on this subject, as we could get bogged down in interpretation. It is my belief that McGill's played the game and lost, they would have continued had they been given subsidies to run them. Lothian seem to be able to provide services without subsidies. Are you suggesting they are making a profit on these routes? I can assure you at this time they are not. They may turn a profit now that they will be the main operator, but time will tell how much.

 

[Mal]

Bright Bus Tours has always seemed like a separate operation so I would think it will keep going alongside the FlixBus work.

Where are Bright Bus based? If it's outwith the city then there must be quite a lot of dead mileage each day to eat into the profits.

 

[stevenedin]

Where are Bright Bus based? If it's outwith the city then there must be quite a lot of dead mileage each day to eat into the profits.

Livingston depot at Deans