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McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

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roadierway77

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It will do pretty well, tourists just get on the first bus that says City centre and off they go. They don't care about brand or capacity and won't be interested in the Lothian brand.
This is exactly what was said about the tours and its turned out to be a profit turner and one of the most valuable assets to the McGills brand
All very true. I may well be proven wrong. The higher frequency of the Airlink does mean that there's a higher chance that a tourist emerging from the terminal may see an Airlink service first before a Bright Bus service, though. Positioning at the terminal will be key - while obviously a very short distance in the grand scheme of things, if McGill's manage to use stop D or E for departures, it may give them line of sight advantage compared to Airlink which departs further down from stop A. As stated, tourists will board the first service they see, especially if they have luggage.
 
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NIT100

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This is exactly what was said about the tours and its turned out to be a profit turner and one of the most valuable assets to the McGills brand

All very true. I may well be proven wrong. The higher frequency of the Airlink does mean that there's a higher chance that a tourist emerging from the terminal may see an Airlink service first before a Bright Bus service, though. Positioning at the terminal will be key - while obviously a very short distance in the grand scheme of things, if McGill's manage to use stop D or E for departures, it may give them line of sight advantage compared to Airlink which departs further down from stop A. As stated, tourists will board the first service they see, especially if they have luggage.
And they may be trying to sell both Airport bus and Bright Bus Tour in one go at the Airport, making sure they capture both early on.
 

CN04NRJ

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It will do pretty well, tourists just get on the first bus that says City centre and off they go. They don't care about brand or capacity and won't be interested in the Lothian brand.

As said before, E300s even if with a full side of luggage racks is going to acommodate how many people? 20? Can't have luggage blocking the gangway. I'm sure it'll get some trade, depending on where it stops.

How many stances are free? If they're having to use the bus station all these tourists will have to walk past the Airlink/Tram stops where 90% of the time there's always one waiting on the stand.

And they may be trying to sell both Airport bus and Bright Bus Tour in one go at the Airport, making sure they capture both early on.

Probably a very limited market given the wide usage of the airport, when I travel to a new country/city one of the last things on my mind is making sure i've got tickets for tour buses. Edinburgh Bus Tours (and definitely Airlink - drivers are issued with envelopes to deposit the vouchers at the depot/sign on areas) tickets I believe are sold as part of holiday package deals, so they already arrive with vouchers for airlink and the tours - not sure if McGill's has integrated themselves with foreign travel agents just yet?
 

LiviCrazy

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Not a fan of them at the moment, but I will say that Tourists look at price too, they aren’t necessarily thinking of a brand. I know if I’m researching on travelling to a city I’m going to be looking for the best value route to the city (as non-bus enthusiasts they won’t be thinking about age of vehicle), quite simply they will be thinking about what’s fastest and cheapest.

This has the potential to capture the no frills, budget conscious market. Especially with relatively low overheads.

Lothian could effectively respond by introducing Tourist, day or week tickets. More expensive than their standard tickets but allowing travel to the airport but allowing unlimited travel in the city. (By comparison like the RATP Visite ticket in Paris)

Where, of course they will fall apart is the likely cancellations.
 

CN04NRJ

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Not a fan of them at the moment, but I will say that Tourists look at price too, they aren’t necessarily thinking of a brand. I know if I’m researching on travelling to a city I’m going to be looking for the best value route to the city (as non-bus enthusiasts they won’t be thinking about age of vehicle), quite simply they will be thinking about what’s fastest and cheapest.

That's true, but in Europe/NA the majority of airport services are state owned/operated (or contracted) so it doesn't matter regardless. Not sure how many countries have privitisation to the extent we do?
 

LiviCrazy

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That's true, but in Europe/NA the majority of airport services are state owned/operated (or contracted) so it doesn't matter regardless. Not sure how many countries have privitisation to the extent we do?
There are often cheaper routes though eg taking a stopping bus compare to a train, Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris being an example. Doing it by bus is 20% of the price. Again if budget conscious you’ll do the cheapest route.

I do think McGill’s could have done something slightly different, eg a fast airport service along Calder Road. This just comes across as a spite move after being forced out of Livingston.
 
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All very true. I may well be proven wrong. The higher frequency of the Airlink does mean that there's a higher chance that a tourist emerging from the terminal may see an Airlink service first before a Bright Bus service, though. Positioning at the terminal will be key - while obviously a very short distance in the grand scheme of things, if McGill's manage to use stop D or E for departures, it may give them line of sight advantage compared to Airlink which departs further down from stop A. As stated, tourists will board the first service they see, especially if they have luggage.
Do we know what the Airport Express's frequency will be?
 
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roadierway77

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How many stances are free? If they're having to use the bus station all these tourists will have to walk past the Airlink/Tram stops where 90% of the time there's always one waiting on the stand.
All of them are currently in use, but stops D and E are only used by the 902 and FLY at frequencies of hourly and 90mins respectively, and stop F is set down only for Airlink. It'd be easiest to accommodate a new frequent service on one of those.
Do we know what the Airport Express's frequency will be?
Every 15 minutes is what's been floating around.
 

Theproinsider

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This is exactly what was said about the tours and its turned out to be a profit turner and one of the most valuable assets to the McGills brand
You have figures to back this up? Overhead costs for having a very remote garage will quickly haemorrhage cash away, with no back up local services.

Drivers getting paid £14 per hour instead of nearly a pound more across the road. Why would you do that, unless you've already been there and departed? 45 hour week versus 39?

Success is not guaranteed for them, as well as annoying lots of local authorities.
 

overthewater

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as well as annoying lots of local authorities.

How will it annoy Edinburgh City council?

I think this is retaliation by McGills over what went down in West Lothian and maybe the goal is to do a cash grab, and make Lothian: " See how do you like it"

I think it will do well; tourists were also asking if the 747, 400, and 300 can get them to Edinburgh City centre, and if the 100 has long queues why will they wait?
 

CN04NRJ

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How will it annoy Edinburgh City council?

I think this is retaliation by McGills over what went down in West Lothian and maybe the goal is to do a cash grab, and make Lothian: " See how do you like it"

I think it will do well; tourists were also asking if the 747, 400, and 300 can get them to Edinburgh City centre, and if the 100 has long queues why will they wait?

Retaliation for their own decision to remove themselves from the area? Or retaliation for Lothian Country starting competition against a company they didn't own in 2018/19? Or not getting council funding to run services and Lothian stepping in to run commercially in West Lothian?
 
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It will do pretty well, tourists just get on the first bus that says City centre and off they go. They don't care about brand or capacity and won't be interested in the Lothian brand.
Where will it be leaving from at the airport?

As I remember the Stagecoach 747 used the stop behind the one that the Airlink 100 leaves from, the GlasgowAIR leaves from the bus stop around the corner from the Airlink.
 

Theproinsider

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How will it annoy Edinburgh City council?

I think this is retaliation by McGills over what went down in West Lothian and maybe the goal is to do a cash grab, and make Lothian: " See how do you like it"

I think it will do well; tourists were also asking if the 747, 400, and 300 can get them to Edinburgh City centre, and if the 100 has long queues why will they wait?
I never mentioned City of Edinburgh Council. West Lothian, SPT, Dundee... all annoyed by their actions.

Simple spoiler tactics from a poor quality operator. For all the McGills cheerleaders, imagine what state your services would be in and what fare you'd be paying if they gained any monopoly.

As usual, be careful for what you wish for. You don't realise how good you've got it.
 
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overthewater

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I never mentioned City of Edinburgh Council. West Lothian, SPT, Dundee... all annoyed by their actions.

Simple spoiler tactics from a poor quality operator. For all the McGills cheerleaders, imagine what state your services would be in and what fare you'd be paying if they gained any monopoly.

As usual, be careful for what you wish for. You don't realise how good you've got it.

Im no cheerleader for McGills, However good people of West Lothian wished for Lothian buses to come to the area and take full control....

However It may will be a "spoiler tactics" but its all fair in love and war.
 
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Im no cheerleader for McGills, However good people of West Lothian wished for Lothian buses to come to the area and take full control....

However It may will be a "spoiler tactics" but its all fair in love and war.
If the public who pay for such a public service want another operator surely that’s only fair, regardless of whether it scorns another private company or not.
 

Observer

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There was an orange E300 outside at Larbert today so I did wonder if there was going to be any movement on the service as it hadn't been registered until now.
It would appear that 0434 (SN64 CKG) has been transfered to Larbert.

Source link:

(A quick note, I understand to take everything on bustimes.org with a pinch of salt)
What I can tell you is 0481 (SN65 OMD) was on the 7 today though, as I saw it with my own eyes.
 

Stan Drews

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I don’t believe for one minute that any of those organisations will take any notice of bus links from Edinburgh Airport to the City Centre.
I don’t believe for one minute that any of those organisations are anymore annoyed by McGill’s than any other operator, …although that wouldn’t fit the narrative some would have you believe!
 

Metal Mickey

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For all the McGills cheerleaders, imagine what state your services would be in and what fare you'd be paying if they gained any monopoly.

As usual, be careful for what you wish for. You don't realise how good you've got it.
As of 3rd December, one operator will have close to an entire monopoly in West Lothian as that is where I assume you are referring to?

And the new network that LCB are offering is, on paper, one of the most half-baked attempts at network planning I’ve ever seen from a bus operator and gives the impression of we have a monopoly therefore we can do whatever the heck we want.
 

roadierway77

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Retaliation for their own decision to remove themselves from the area? Or retaliation for Lothian Country starting competition against a company they didn't own in 2018/19? Or not getting council funding to run services and Lothian stepping in to run commercially in West Lothian?
McGill’s played the blame game when they announced they'd be pulling out of West Lothian. It's the fault of Lothian, ScotRail, roadworks... everybody but themselves. So in their view, retaliation against Lothian is justified, even though we all know that the West Lothian situation is the fault of nobody but McGill's.
As of 3rd December, one operator will have close to an entire monopoly in West Lothian as that is where I assume you are referring to?

And the new network that LCB are offering is, on paper, one of the most half-baked attempts at network planning I’ve ever seen from a bus operator and gives the impression of we have a monopoly therefore we can do whatever the heck we want.
To be fair to Lothian, the upcoming network was likely planned in only a few weeks and seemed to be announced as soon as possible to quell anxiety among bus users and politicians. However yes I agree, it's subpar - provision and coverage will be somehow worse than today, though with likely less cancellations at least, yet Lothian will still be heralded as the saviour of bus transport in West Lothian. The network has fallen far from its peak state in 2018, and will likely never return to such a level.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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As of 3rd December, one operator will have close to an entire monopoly in West Lothian as that is where I assume you are referring to?

And the new network that LCB are offering is, on paper, one of the most half-baked attempts at network planning I’ve ever seen from a bus operator and gives the impression of we have a monopoly therefore we can do whatever the heck we want.
Yes, the enhanced network being introduced by Lothian is by far from the ideal response, but given their restricted resources I feel it is the best offering they could bring to the table at the present time. After all, they were under no obligation to provide replacement services for the endless failures which McGill's have left in the hands of West Lothian's communities. But part of me thinks the horse has bolted after the door was shut. Perhaps too much damage has been done already.

On the other hand, at least passengers can have confidence that buses will show up around the time they're scheduled, rather than being hastily being cancelled when there's no relief driver, and passengers can wish goodbye to the false hope and fake promises which McGill's have battered on with the past year.

I don’t believe for one minute that any of those organisations are anymore annoyed by McGill’s than any other operator, …although that wouldn’t fit the narrative some would have you believe!
Your contributions, to this thread in particular, suggest you're not of an impartial view either. It's any wonder that posts opposing any decisions made by McGill's don't fit the "narrative"!

I'm sure McGill's bought First Scotland East, in particular the West Lothian services, with best intentions. However there seems to be a level of bitterness that those intentions were unable to become successful and in some cases come to fruition. Just a shame that newly electrified railway line sprung out of nowhere, eh...
 

Observer

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Simple spoiler tactics from a poor quality operator. For all the McGills cheerleaders, imagine what state your services would be in and what fare you'd be paying if they gained any monopoly.
Already have a monopoly in Falkirk as nobody else wants to run services despite there being a few viable areas. Stirling have a few operators but not as many as there were before 2020 happened.

McGill's bought Scotland East knowing it would be an easy ride for them aside from West Lothian...only problem is they didn't realise how bad the ex-First fleet really was until they were in the door.

Also, nobody seemed to mention it but Upper Newmarket Street (ASDA) in Falkirk has now reopened to buses.
From Monday 20th November, Newmarket Street in Falkirk will reopen and our buses will be back and closer to the heart of the town centre.

All our buses will go back to their normal stances and no longer use the temporary bus stops that were located on Princes Street and Garrison Place.

The improvement project tackled roads maintenance, bus stop relocation and other upgrades to improve the attractiveness of this busy retail and bus hub, pedestrian safety and accessibility for all.
Not so much of an improvement as they took away a bus stop at the ASDA side though. Queuing for buses used to be really bad there, due to buses not being able to reach the stops.
 
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318266

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Do you mean the weekly tickets for those areas that are both £2 cheaper than the Lothian Buses weekly cap covering Edinburgh?
So - taking the example of Inverclyde - only £2 cheaper but with an eighth of the fleet, and I'd guess the services are around 1/6th (and much less frequent than most Lothian routes!)
 

scosutsut

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I don't think this Airport Express is a retaliation, merely an attempt to use the depot, drivers and vehicles they've got spare once they shut down the West Lothian local operations. Short of inspiration they did what First did before - ask what do Lothian run that's profitable and easy to replicate. Tours is already done so airport is a logical point to arrive at.

I think not using deckers will end up being regretted.
 

LiviCrazy

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I don't think this Airport Express is a retaliation, merely an attempt to use the depot, drivers and vehicles they've got spare once they shut down the West Lothian local operations. Short of inspiration they did what First did before - ask what do Lothian run that's profitable and easy to replicate. Tours is already done so airport is a logical point to arrive at.

I think not using deckers will end up being regretted.
I do think there is a bit of spite. I found one particular quote from McGills in this article particularly interesting.
“As cooperation with Lothian to jointly build a combined and integrated West Lothian network was not an option, it was inevitable that Eastern Scottish would have to depart from this area.

It reads that McGills did try to agree a carving up of the network. Obviously have to take some of it with a pinch of salt, but it is the only time they’ve noted that.
 

Bus9120UK

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I do think there is a bit of spite. I found one particular quote from McGills in this article particularly interesting.


It reads that McGills did try to agree a carving up of the network. Obviously have to take some of it with a pinch of salt, but it is the only time they’ve noted that.
Lothian were providing the best service they could, on very well used corridors - surely it's McGill's that should've based their network around that? I can't see what changes Lothian would've been willing to make.
 
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