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Meaning of intent in relation to Regulation of Railways 1889 Section 5

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ForTheLoveOf

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #9 originally in this thread.

As you chose to join a train without a ticket and had no means to purchase one, the correct course of action was to report for consideration of prosecution. A penalty fare is issued normally to a passenger who makes a mistake. You intentionally tried to skip paying your fare. I disagree with ForTheLoveOf to the extent he suggests this is a byelaw 18 matter; this seems to me like travelling without paying your fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof, contrary to section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

You now need to pay the sum requested promptly to avoid the matter escalating further and ending up with a criminal record.

If you do choose to complain about or contest the matter afterward that is of course your right, but I do not see any grounds for any such complaint.
There is no suggestion in any of the previous messages that the passenger intended to avoid payment of the fare merely because they did not have the means to pay it on them at the time. If a TOC is relying on that as their sole argument for a RoRA prosecution, they are on shaky ground. It's not as if the OP lied about what happened; it is perfectly possible for an honest person to forget their wallet (although, if there was a history of this happening that would be more likely to suggest intent).

In a case such as this I would be surprised if the TOC even tried to go for RoRA, as it would certainly be something that could be defended against with good legal representation. Whereas a Byelaw prosecution isn't (assuming there were functional ticketing facilities available).

That difference may weigh into the OP's decision over whether or not to accept the settlement, given that a Byelaws conviction would not lead to a criminal record - if they are of particularly limited means they may opt not to go for it, in the hope that they would be fined, and made to pay costs, which add up to less than what GA are asking for now. That does, however, seem quite unlikely to me given the costs requested are 'just' £80 rather than, say, £180 or £280 (even though I highly doubt that GA have incurred costs anywhere even approaching £80 for handling this specific case).

That being said, in almost all personal contexts here it would be worthwhile accepting the settlement.
 
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najaB

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There is no suggestion in any of the previous messages that the passenger intended to avoid payment of the fare merely because they did not have the means to pay it on them at the time.
I'm sorry, but knowingly boarding a train without a ticket and with no means to pay for one is clearly an attempt to travel without paying the correct fare - payment is due before travelling, regardless of any purported intention to pay after the fact. (Unless, of course, the TOC has previously agreed to post-payment).

I know that analogies often don't work, but using your logic I should be able to walk into a shop, take an item from the shelf and walk back out with impunity, as long as I have sufficient funds in my bank account to pay for it.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm sorry, but knowingly boarding a train without a ticket and with no means to pay for one is clearly an attempt to travel without paying the correct fare - payment is due before travelling, regardless of any purported intention to pay after the fact. (Unless, of course, the TOC has previously agreed to post-payment).

I know that analogies often don't work, but using your logic I should be able to walk into a shop, take an item from the shelf and walk back out with impunity, as long as I have sufficient funds in my bank account to pay for it.

Or if you're in a rush to collect your children it's OK to walk out of a shop with some goods with the promise to pay later. Some small family businesses that know you may allow that, but that is at their discretion. The railway does not offer that discretion.

The correct thing to do in the circumstances would probably have been to go home for the purse, call a taxi to the school and take that on the chin.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I'm sorry, but knowingly boarding a train without a ticket and with no means to pay for one is clearly an attempt to travel without paying the correct fare - payment is due before travelling, regardless of any purported intention to pay after the fact. (Unless, of course, the TOC has previously agreed to post-payment).

I know that analogies often don't work, but using your logic I should be able to walk into a shop, take an item from the shelf and walk back out with impunity, as long as I have sufficient funds in my bank account to pay for it.
I don't agree. Intent is of course determined by actions, but unless there is something more to it than we are hearing, merely forgetting to take the wallet is not dishonest. The parallel with the supermarket simply doesn't work - it's as if you are accused of dishonesty merely for entering the supermarket and picking up items without having your wallet on you. As long as you don't try and exit the supermarket without paying, you are not being dishonest.
 

najaB

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The parallel with the supermarket simply doesn't work - it's as if you are accused of dishonesty merely for entering the supermarket and picking up items without having your wallet on you. As long as you don't try and exit the supermarket without paying, you are not being dishonest.
Going to the station without your wallet isn't dishonest, as long as you don't board a train and travel you aren't being dishonest.
 

Llanigraham

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I don't agree. Intent is of course determined by actions, but unless there is something more to it than we are hearing, merely forgetting to take the wallet is not dishonest. The parallel with the supermarket simply doesn't work - it's as if you are accused of dishonesty merely for entering the supermarket and picking up items without having your wallet on you. As long as you don't try and exit the supermarket without paying, you are not being dishonest.

The comparison with the supermarket was totally correct.
If you go out without any money that is unfortunate.
If you then try to buy something, including travel, knowing you have NO money shows (legal definition) intent not to pay.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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That's absolutely true but subsequently boarding a train, knowing that you have no means of payment, is dishonest.
Sorry, I had missed the bit about the OP realising they had no means of payment just before boarding. In the absence of this, it would definitely not be dishonest. And IMO there is still no dishonesty if the OP had every intention of approaching a member of staff to provide their details to enable them to pay the fare later. Of course proving the latter is difficult, so if GA can prove that the OP realised they had forgotten their wallet prior to boarding (something that is presumably only possible if the OP admitted it in interview), they are going to find a RoRA charge hard to put through. But a Byelaws prosecution is not in jeopardy.
 

Llanigraham

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I suggest a few people need to read this:
http://e-lawresources.co.uk/Mens-rea-intention.php
Mens rea - Intention




Mens rea in criminal law is concerned with the state of mind of the defendant. Most true crimes will require proof of mens rea. Where mens rea is not required the offence is one of strict liability. There are three main levels of mens rea: intention, recklessness and negligence.





Intention

Intention requires the highest degree of fault of all the levels of mens rea. A person who intends to commit a crime, can generally be said to be more culpable than one who acts recklessly.

Intention differs from motive or desire (Per Lord Bridge R v
Moloney [1985] AC 905 Case summary). Thus, a person who kills a loved one dying from a terminal illness, in order to relieve pain and suffering, may well act out of good motives. Nevertheless, this does not prevent them having the necessary intention to kill see R v Inglis [2011] 1 WLR 1110 Case summary .



Intention can be divided into direct intent and oblique intent.




Direct intent:

The majority of cases will be quite straight forward and involve direct intent. Direct intent can be said to exist where the defendant embarks on a course of conduct to bring about a result which in fact occurs. Eg D intends to kill his wife. To achieve that result he gets a knife from the kitchen, sharpens it and then stabs her, killing her. The conduct achieves the desired result.



Oblique intent:


Oblique intent is more complex. Oblique intent can be said to exist where the defendant embarks on a course of conduct to bring about a desired result, knowing that the consequence of his actions will also bring about another result. Eg D intends to kill his wife. He knows she is going to be on a particular aeroplane and places a bomb on that aeroplane. He knows that his actions will result in the death of the other passengers and crew of the aeroplane even though that may not be part of his desire in carrying out the action. In this situation D is no less culpable in killing the passengers and crew than in killing his wife as he knows that the deaths will happen as a result of his actions.




The courts have struggled to find an appropriate test to apply in cases of oblique intent. In particular the questions which have vexed the courts are:

  1. Should the test be subjective or objective?
  2. What degree of probability is required before it can be said that the defendant intended the result?
  3. Whether the degree of probability should be equal to intention or whether it is evidence of intention from which the jury may infer intention



Subjective or objective test
A subjective test is concerned with the defendant's perspective. In relation to oblique intent it would be concerned only with whether the defendant did foresee the degree of probability of the result occurring from his actions. An objective test looks at the perspective of a reasonable person. Ie Would a reasonable person have foreseen the degree of probability of the result occurring from the defendant's actions.



It is arguable, that since intention requires the highest degree of fault, it should be solely concerned with the defendant's perception. In addition, intention seems to be a concept which naturally requires a subjective inquiry. It seems somehow wrong to decide what the defendant's intention was by reference to what a reasonable person would have contemplated. However, originally an objective test was applied to decide oblique intent:


DPP v Smith [1961] AC 290 Case summary


This position was reversed by statute by

s 8 Criminal Justice Act 1967


S. 8 Proof of criminal intent
A court or jury, in determining whether a person has committed an offence,—

(a)shall not be bound in law to infer that he intended or foresaw a result of his actions by reason only of its being a natural and probable consequence of those actions; but

(b)shall decide whether he did intend or foresee that result by reference to all the evidence, drawing such inferences from the evidence as appear proper in the circumstances.


The effect of s.8 was considered in:


R v Hyam [1975] AC 55 Case summary



The House of Lords accepted a subjective test was applicable. However, the majority decision of the House of Lords was out of line with s.8 in that it was accepted that foresight of consequences being highly probable was sufficient to establish intent.(Lord Hailsham dissenting) a point which was taken and rectified in R v Moloney [1985] AC 905 (Case summary)


Lord Bridge's test on oblique intent:

"First, was death or really serious injury in a murder case (or whatever relevant consequence must be proved to have been intended in any other case) a natural consequence of the defendant's voluntary act? Secondly, did the defendant foresee that consequence as being a natural consequence of his act? The jury should then be told that if they answer yes to both questions it is a proper inference for them to draw that he intended that consequence."





However, R v Moloney left a problem with regards to the degree of probability required. This was considered in:





R v Hancock & Shankland [1985] 3 WLR 1014 Case summary




The degree of probability was still causing problems and the cases of R v Maloney and R v Hancock and Shankland were reviewed by the Court of Appeal in R v Nedrick which reformulated the test.




R v Nedrick [1986] 1 WLR 1025 Case summary


Lord Lane CJ:


  • "the jury should be directed that they are not entitled to infer the necessary intention, unless they feel sure that death or serious bodily harm was a virtual certainty (barring some unforeseen intervention) as a result of the defendant's actions and that the defendant appreciated that such was the case."




The authority of this test was questioned in Woollin. The House of Lords largely approved of the test with some minor modifications setting the current test of oblique intent:


R v Woollin [1999] AC 82 Case summary



The current test of oblique intent:
"Where the charge is murder and in the rare cases where the simple direction is not enough, the jury should be directed that they are not entitled to find the necessary intention, unless they feel sure that death or serious bodily harm was a virtual certainty (barring some unforeseen intervention) as a result of the defendant's actions and that the defendant appreciated that such was the case."

The decision is one for the jury to be reached upon a consideration of all the evidence.




Mens rea - Intention
 

pedr

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I’m usually in agreement with the more legally-focused posters but surely something derailed this discussion by referring to “dishonesty” which isn’t an element of the RoRA offence, I don’t think.

If someone boards a train with no means to pay for a ticket, in the knowledge that they have no means, they intend to travel without paying the fare. I think that’s even true if their subjective aim would be to tell any guard who asks that they are willing to leave their name and address and pay later.

Someone boarding a train at a station without facilities to buy any ticket and then later realising they do not have any means to buy one is in a stronger position, though they might struggle to convince a court that they were being truthful about when they realised their predicament.
 

cuccir

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Someone boarding a train at a station without facilities to buy any ticket and then later realising they do not have any means to buy one is in a stronger position, though they might struggle to convince a court that they were being truthful about when they realised their predicament.

In this event there is a plausible defence but it would probably require a lawyer to make it in court. The question then becomes one of risk of conviction v possibility of settling a case out if court.
 

Haywain

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If someone boards a train with no means to pay for a ticket, in the knowledge that they have no means, they intend to travel without paying the fare. I think that’s even true if their subjective aim would be to tell any guard who asks that they are willing to leave their name and address and pay later.
That sounds rather like the Corbyn case.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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That sounds rather like the Corbyn case.
I think the discernable difference is that Mr Corbyn in that case (not to be confused with the Labour politician) was in the habit of regularly giving his name and address on what was effectively a self-filled UFN in the hope that he would never be asked to pay. That regularity is something that was not present in some of the cases this discussion has come from, and so in the absence of that regularity (say, in the case of a one-off incident) I'm not sure intent to avoid payment could be inferred - especially so if the passenger approached members of train crew proactively as soon as they realised they had forgotten their wallet, and afterwards made proactive efforts to pay the fare owed.
 
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