Megabus Sleeper Coach Glasgow to London

[WestCoast]

There was nothing unfair or underhand about the competition in Preston. Yes both sides were guilty of stupid little incidents, but none of the affected the outcome.
The fact is that Preston Bus was badly managed, the bus war only hastened the end. I would argue that Stagecoach buying PB was a good thing - meaning multi-trip tickets were accepted across Preston for the first time. I know people who's commuting costs were halved when Stagecoach took over, but were trebled when Stagecoach were forced to sell to Rotala.

Bus wars are not good for anyone bar the likes of Stagecoach, it's very often the passengers who ultimately lose out in the long-term. Cross-company ticketing is the way forward, not one dominant big transport group operator in the area, at least one that is focused only on profit.

I am very glad LCC don't seem to like Stagecoach much, certainly in the Fylde area. Their contract work is nowhere near as wide as it was previously.

If we are going to have full deregulation, the BEST option IMO is to have a wide variety of operators with PTE-style cross-company ticketing available. Don't let Stagecoach/First/Arriva become too dominant in one area.

I am fully aware some people may be impressed by Stagecoach but I still don't rate them. I don't rate any of the "big 3" when it comes to buses, just my opinion though. Stagecoach hate to be told what to do and I think that can be a very bad thing.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Having lived in a first area, an Arriva area, a Stagecoach area, and in Edinburgh, I can safely say that my order of preference would be:

Locally owned
(long gap)
Stagecoach
(long gap)
Arriva
First

In particular, Stagecoach seems to have a particularly good model for operating services in towns and medium distance services between urban centres.

I don't think there's anything First are good at.

Yeah, I'd more or less agree with that exactly. And also that Lothian are indeed excellent. Ensignbus in Thurrock are another outstanding local company, albeit much smaller.

Would probably add Go-Ahead companies (certainly Oxford, Brighton & Hove, and probably Metrobus, though I've not really used them much since Go-Ahead took them over) at round about the same level as the Stagecoach ones. (For town services they can be better than Stagecoach, but there is less innovation, and medium-distance work is rarer)

Although I am hard placed to think of anything that Arriva are good at either (having a more attractive livery than First, presenting their timetables in a slightly more coherent and comprehensible format than First, not being quite so blatantly cost-cutting to quite the same degree as First are the main points in their favour as far as I can tell)

 

[scotsman]

Lothian are brilliant. Stagecoach's only redeeming quality is the state of their buses.

Sadly, their record on homophobia, fares and journey times mean that I will not be travelling with them much any more. (Much to my joy, my school's bus contract has gone to a local coach firm!)

 

[Greenback]

True with their buses, perhaps their Greyhound coach service is OK, I haven't tried it...

It's slightly better than a normal coach, as there is more room and leather seats. Otherwise it's just a bus!

The driver did announce that First plan to move over to advance booking only. I think he said later this year, but didn't give a date.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bus wars are not good for anyone bar the likes of Stagecoach, it's very often the passengers who ultimately lose out in the long-term. Cross-company ticketing is the way forward, not one dominant big transport group operator in the area, at least one that is focused only on profit.

I am very glad LCC don't seem to like Stagecoach much, certainly in the Fylde area. Their contract work is nowhere near as wide as it was previously.

If we are going to have full deregulation, the BEST option IMO is to have a wide variety of operators with PTE-style cross-company ticketing available. Don't let Stagecoach/First/Arriva become too dominant in one area.

I am fully aware some people may be impressed by Stagecoach but I still don't rate them. I don't rate any of the "big 3" when it comes to buses, just my opinion though. Stagecoach hate to be told what to do and I think that can be a very bad thing.

I agree. Full deregulation is the last thing we need. We should all have a properly organised and planned public transport as in Manchester and London

 

[WestCoast]

I agree. Full deregulation is the last thing we need. We should all have a properly organised and planned public transport as in Manchester and London

For cities, the London model IMO would work best when you've not got a municipal operator. Can you imagine London buses without proper regulation? Pure chaos!

Manchester is OK for buses, but it's essentially still a bit of a mess when it comes to all the different operators (especially the horrid First Manchester) and their lack of integration and co-ordination. TfGM is like a night-watchmen over them, and does provide cross-firm ticketing as well as keeping them on vaguely the right track. Competition still exists too, mainly between Stagecoach and a local firm, Finglands on the very busy Oxford Road corridor (the largest bus flow in Europe apparantly) in South Manchester. It used to be far more intense with about 4 companies, including the infamous UK North with it's non-English speaking drivers and rickety buses. Is that really how buses should be?

The PTE areas aren't bad, but some do let the likes of First have a little too much free reign (e.g Leeds). Indeed, they don't really have much control over them. I'd like to see this changed and more PTE-style bodies established.

 

[Greenback]

Outside of the PTE areas it's a real nightmare. My experience of Manchester was that the network is pretty good, but they would benefit from moving towards the TfL model, with one livery and completely integrated ticketing.

 

[deltabravo]

I think I am correct in saying that John Major wanted to deregulate London Bus services in the 90's. As previously said, can you imagine the total and utter chaos!

As discussed on other threads, the West Yorkshire Metro are planning to bring the London franchising system to West Yorkshire, and I really hope they do.

Whenever I go down to London, I see a proper well managed bus network that is affordable and easy to use.

 

[anthony263]

It's slightly better than a normal coach, as there is more room and leather seats. Otherwise it's just a bus!

The driver did announce that First plan to move over to advance booking only. I think he said later this year, but didn't give a date.

If First cymru do put their greyhound to advance booking only i think you will find it loosing a lot of passengers, either that or someone else will launch a rival service,

Then again, that may mean that local rail services will end up getting more passengers and more traffic on the M4

Apart from that some of the local buses will end up packed with OAP and fare paying passengers wont be able to get a seat , meaning that less passengers and the service becomes unprofitable. One such example of this was the X55 Swansea - Aberdare - Pontypridd bus which when started by Shamrock has deckers on it and was brilliant and very popular.

Sadly Veolia had a brilliant idea to put single deckers on it which were terrible and ended up spelling the end of the service as even though the buses were full, most of them were OAP's. (I shoudl iknow i did it once)

There is now a replacement service funded by the local councils, of 3 trips per day but the timetable is terrible not good for a day trip up from Swansea/Netah - Aberdare etc

 

[Greenback]

If First cymru do put their greyhound to advance booking only i think you will find it loosing a lot of passengers, either that or someone else will launch a rival service,

Then again, that may mean that local rail services will end up getting more passengers and more traffic on the M4.

Yes, I agree it would be a bad move and lose passengers.

I'm not sure about the extra rail passengers though. From what we saw on our journeys (which may not be typical of course) most of the Greyhound passengers were travelling to or from Sarn. There were a few through passengers, but the vast majority were going shopping, and that can't be easily reached by train!

 

[anthony263]

yes thats true, the greyhound services are used by a lot of commuters during the peaks especially since the coaches are supposed to have wi-fi when it works or the dont just stick a normal coach on.

I wonder if first do decide to only allow pre-booked passengers that we will see a certain mr jones starting acompeting coach service? providing the traffic commisioner allows him of course

 

[Greenback]

I don't think it's definite at the moment that they will move to not selling tickets on the day. The announcement was only mad eon oen journey, and it may be more of an aspiration on First's part, as I haven't heard anything or seen any other announcement.

They may have realised how costly such a move would be - there were very few with internet bookings on the services we've been on. They ar eprobably just trying to encourage people...

 

[tbtc]

I was rather impressed by what I saw of Fife Scottish bus network (and their central Scottish coach network with connections linking up between Edinburgh/ Glasgow/ Cumbernauld/ Dunfermline/ Kirkcaldy/ Glenrothes/ Leven/ Crail/ St Andrews/ Dundee

Its even more impressive when you realise how they've grown that market over the last couple of decades.

Fife - Glasgow used to be every hour or two (X26), with no service beyond Glenrothes (other than one a day X27 to Leven) - no St Andrews/ Cupar buses

Fife - Edinburgh used to be either all stop services or "most stops" (e.g. the X57 to Anstruther via Kinghorn, the X58 to St Andrews via The Gyle/ Abbey View in Dunfermline) - these routes were basically "all stop" in Fife. The X59 only ran two or three times a day.

Dundee had no fast buses to Fife, only the ones to St Andrews via Tayport.

Now we have three express buses each hour from Fife to Glasgow, four express buses each hour from Fife to Edinburgh, many fast links opened up, a much younger age of vehicle too!

Compare that to First/ Arriva who would only run such a network nowadays if they had inherited something twice/three times the size when they took over - other companies are good at managing a declining network whilst Stagecoach do build their markets.

PS: Should also be pointed out that the X43 to Burnley (The Witch Way) was a Stagecoach invention, once upon a time (albeit without the branding/ seats)

 

[Deerfold]

PS: Should also be pointed out that the X43 to Burnley (The Witch Way) was a Stagecoach invention, once upon a time (albeit without the branding/ seats)

Indeed, and although I rather like Transdev generally they've cut it back so it no longer operates from Skipton or Keighley (and the connections aren't great either).

 

[tbtc]

I don't think it's definite at the moment that they will move to not selling tickets on the day. The announcement was only mad eon oen journey, and it may be more of an aspiration on First's part, as I haven't heard anything or seen any other announcement.

They may have realised how costly such a move would be - there were very few with internet bookings on the services we've been on. They ar eprobably just trying to encourage people...

I can see why First would want to try to encourage people to book ahead - not only does it encourage people to make journeys but it also makes the "boarding" process easier.

One thing to suggest it, another to implement it though...

 

[Greenback]

It also helps their yield management if people book ahead as they can change their prices according to demand.

Customers don't like it for trips of half an hour though!

 

[radamfi]

PS: Should also be pointed out that the X43 to Burnley (The Witch Way) was a Stagecoach invention, once upon a time (albeit without the branding/ seats)

The X43 was a long standing Ribble route dating back before deregulation. There used to be a 743 'local' and a X43 motorway express. Ribble used Leyland Olympian double deckers after deregulation. Stagecoach bought Ribble in the late 80s and the X43 was converted to Plaxton Interurban coaches in the early 90s. The Plaxton Interurban was bought in large numbers by Stagecoach for use across the country. It was a low spec version of the Plaxton Premiere which was used widely by National Express in the 90s. The 743 was dropped around this time.

Stagecoach took over the Burnley & Pendle company from the councils in the mid 90s so the X43 became operated by this part of the business. However, Stagecoach sold Burnley & Pendle to Blazefield around 2001 because of poor industrial relations.

 

[tbtc]

It also helps their yield management if people book ahead as they can change their prices according to demand.

Customers don't like it for trips of half an hour though!

Agreed - makes a lot more sense for the Glasgow - London route than for the Cardiff - Swansea one!

 

[Butts]

Has anyone seen this new service being introduced this month.

From the website the picture looks like 3 tier bunks with proper bedding.

Not sure if the prices will be starting at £1 still.

This may pose a serious threat to Railway Sleeper Services especially if the price is right


I hope for smokers like myself theres two berths on the roof (indian railways style)-electric blanket thrown in

 

[bb21]

From the website the picture looks like 3 tier bunks with proper bedding.

Yes, they are.

Not sure if the prices will be starting at £1 still.

According to Buses magazine, they are. The capacity on each vehicle is 24.

I hope for smokers like myself theres two berths on the roof (indian railways style)-electric blanket thrown in

A premium is charged for riding on the roof for the first hour. An addition premium is charged for riding on the roof for every additional hour and part thereof.

 

[Butts]

Yes, they are.



According to Buses magazine, they are. The capacity on each vehicle is 24.



A premium is charged for riding on the roof for the first hour. An addition premium is charged for riding on the roof for every additional hour and part thereof.

Do you think this could be a genuine threat to rail services - I hate coaches normally but a bed could put a different perspective on it ?

 

[bb21]

Do you think this could be a genuine threat to rail services - I hate coaches normally but a bed could put a different perspective on it ?

A cheap and cheerful alternative. Nothing more. By the looks of them, they are nowhere near as comfortable as a sleeper berth, but they'll have their target market.

 

[bb21]

This is the article taken from September's Buses.

Edit: I have moved this thread to the correct forum and merged it with an existing thread on the subject.

 

[anthony263]

these coaches actually have decent seats compared to most of the other megabus services

 

[Greenback]

Do you think this could be a genuine threat to rail services - I hate coaches normally but a bed could put a different perspective on it ?

It's possible that the service may boost overnight rail travel by proving that there is a market for couchette style overnight travel. Unlikely, perhaps, but you never know!

I agree with bb21 that the sleepers serve a different market and should be unaffected.

 

[Schnellzug]

Why is anything that might offer an alternative to rail always seen as a Threat? If there was a genuine commercial enviroment, anything that might encourage the incumbent rail operator to keep on its toes would surely be a good thing.

 

[tbtc]

Do you think this could be a genuine threat to rail services

With 24 seats, probably not.

But then, if the subsidy for each sleeper passenger is hundreds of pounds (the West Highland sleeper service required an annual subsidy of £3 million back in 1995 - http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1995/feb/28/west-highland-sleeper-service) then maybe that puts a different spin on things?

 

[shinkansen1966]

What puts me off travelling any distance by coach (and I call Manchester - London distance!) is
(a) how cramped the seats are
(b) how cramped the toilet space is (if any)
(c) not being able to enjoy a glass or two of red.
So I'll pay more to go by train - faster and way more comfortable.

With their jaunty liveries, toast rack generic seating, complex fare structures and minimal unappealing long life packaged catering, at times I'm struggling to tell the differences between long distance bus and rail travel.

But then who runs some of rail and bus services ? National Express, Stagecoach and First Group ?

 

[northwichcat]

How long before Scotrail or FGW get one as a sleeper replacement bus service?

 

[Schnellzug]

With their jaunty liveries, toast rack generic seating, complex fare structures and minimal unappealing long life packaged catering, at times I'm struggling to tell the differences between long distance bus and rail travel.

But then who runs some of rail and bus services ? National Express, Stagecoach and First Group ?

Complex fare structures? That's one of the advantages of NX, the fares are (a) reasonable and (b) reasonably easy to understand.
And the liveries of NX coaches are fairly restrained, and the seats aare pretty reasonble (the most recent ones have leather seats).

 

[shinkansen1966]

Complex fare structures? That's one of the advantages of NX, the fares are (a) reasonable and (b) reasonably easy to understand.
And the liveries of NX coaches are fairly restrained, and the seats aare pretty reasonble (the most recent ones have leather seats).

So what exactly is stopping NX applying the same fares simplicity to their rail services ?