Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[jamesst]

You couldn't let me know what time service you saw it on, please? I'd like one last run to the seaside and back on this unit before it goes.

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To go back to subject, it is mentioned on other forums that the Ormskirk line will lose all its peak time paired services once the 777s take over. This is ludicrous in my book; capacity cuts are just about forgivable on the West Kirby line etc. but not the much busier Ormskirk route. If you can't run them in multiple, you can't run the 777s in four car formation on such busy services at this time, simple as that. I hope this is wrong or reconsidered if it is planned.

Merseyrail will soon be providing a service considerably worse in capacity terms than that offered by the much-maligned MTL. Temporarily or not, 'Miseryrail' is back.

Ignore that, the Ormskirk is NOT losing double sets at peak times when the 777s take over.

 

[prod_pep]

Ignore that, the Ormskirk is NOT losing double sets at peak times when the 777s take over.

Good to hear. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ignore that, the Ormskirk is NOT losing double sets at peak times when the 777s take over.

Good.

 

[MattRat]

Ignore that, the Ormskirk is NOT losing double sets at peak times when the 777s take over.

As far as we can tell right now. I can't help but be a cynic considering the technical capacities, but will be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[507020]

Ignore that, the Ormskirk is NOT losing double sets at peak times when the 777s take over.

Good to hear. Thanks for the clarification.

A reasonable assessment is that 8 car 777s may not be able be provided until the conclusion of platform lengthening, or the final withdrawal of 507/508s on either side of the Mersey. The slight reduction in fleet size was intended to be absorbed by higher availability and a tightening of the timetable, which can not happen while the 777s are still running to 507/508 timings.

Note that Kirkby for example has not yet received an 8 car set in service.

 

[karlbbb]

A reasonable assessment is that 8 car 777s may not be able be provided until the conclusion of platform lengthening, or the final withdrawal of 507/508s on either side of the Mersey. The slight reduction in fleet size was intended to be absorbed by higher availability and a tightening of the timetable, which can not happen while the 777s are still running to 507/508 timings.

Note that Kirkby for example has not yet received an 8 car set in service.

Did/does Kirkby even run 6-car sets on the PEPs? Not sure I’ve ever seen a 6-car running on the Kirkby line.

Good news above that 8-car sets will run on the Ormskirk line. I try and get a 6-car set coming home to be a bit less “sardine”, but my morning run is usually OK on a 3-car at the moment.

 

[507020]

Did/does Kirkby even run 6-car sets on the PEPs? Not sure I’ve ever seen a 6-car running on the Kirkby line.

Good news above that 8-car sets will run on the Ormskirk line. I try and get a 6-car set coming home to be a bit less “sardine”, but my morning run is usually OK on a 3-car at the moment.

It was a 6 car that crashed at Kirkby. When a 2nd batch of 777s is inevitably ordered for various network expansions, it will be interesting to see whether any provision is made for capacity enhancement on the core network.

 

[Sam 76]

It was a 6 car that crashed at Kirkby. When a 2nd batch of 777s is inevitably ordered for various network expansions, it will be interesting to see whether any provision is made for capacity enhancement on the core network.

I would imagine the argument would be that any new services will bolster the network capacity naturally. Suppose it depends which line it is.

 

[Pacef8]

• The 0743 Liverpool Central - Kirkby has been cancelled due to a fault on board .

 

[prod_pep]

Did/does Kirkby even run 6-car sets on the PEPs? Not sure I’ve ever seen a 6-car running on the Kirkby line.

The Kirkby line has had no regular six cars since May 2018 in the normal timetable. It has had them for various events, during reduced timetables (COVID-19 and stock shortages) and when a service was removed to accommodate 777 trials recently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Kirkby line has had no regular six cars since May 2018 in the normal timetable. It has had them for various events, during reduced timetables (COVID-19 and stock shortages) and when a service was removed to accommodate 777 trials recently.

Is Kirkby busy enough to need 6 car? Of course, the network never reached its full potential because of bus deregulation - bus routes became set up to compete, not complement. I wonder if we might, under regulation, see that change back.

 

[MattRat]

The Kirkby line has had no regular six cars since May 2018 in the normal timetable. It has had them for various events, during reduced timetables (COVID-19 and stock shortages) and when a service was removed to accommodate 777 trials recently.

It also doesn't really need them unless the line is extended to Wigan/St Helens/Skelmersdale.

 

[prod_pep]

Is Kirkby busy enough to need 6 car? Of course, the network never reached its full potential because of bus deregulation - bus routes became set up to compete, not complement. I wonder if we might, under regulation, see that change back.

I'd say there should be a six car each peak as the trains are rammed. The 0828 Kirkby - Central and 1720 Central - Kirkby appeared the busiest two each peak hour last time I checked. One imagines the opening of Headbolt Lane will add to the loadings.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

I'd say there should be a six car each peak as the trains are rammed. The 0828 Kirkby - Central and 1720 Central - Kirkby appeared the busiest two each peak hour last time I checked. One imagines the opening of Headbolt Lane will add to the loadings.

I would say some of the longer Wirral lines justify 6 cars before the relatively short Kirkby line. The crush after James St can be terrible. Thank goodness I get to work earlier so I miss the crush after 5pm.

 

[D821]

Is Kirkby busy enough to need 6 car? Of course, the network never reached its full potential because of bus deregulation - bus routes became set up to compete, not complement. I wonder if we might, under regulation, see that change back.

A friend if mine used to use the Kirkby line pre-covid and said it needed 6 cars on.
West Kirby and New Birghton seem to cope with 3 cars, though the Ellesmere Port and Chester trains always look busier.

 

[prod_pep]

I would say some of the longer Wirral lines justify 6 cars before the relatively short Kirkby line. The crush after James St can be terrible. Thank goodness I get to work earlier so I miss the crush after 5pm.

From what I've seen of the loadings, some Chester trains should be six car, especially the 1715 Central - Chester which has been overcrowded for years but many of the Southport and Ormskirk trains are worse still. Neither the New Brighton nor the Ellesmere Port lines are even close to requiring six cars in my experience; the peak hour Kirkby trains are far busier than these.

Both the Chester and West Kirby routes saw a handful of six car workings before Merseyrail started its cuts. By the time the Chester line lost its last AM pair, hardly anyone was using it due to the fact it kept being removed and re-added to the timetable with little communication. The West Kirby line seems to cope without six cars now, and the morning one was never that busy anyway.

 

[Sam 76]

What will be interesting is if there is potentially the addition of some of the special peak services seen pre covid on the Southport line for example

 

[Pacef8]

Northern Kirkby line evening service appears to fallen apart and gone to busses ?

 

[MattRat]

Northern Kirkby line evening service appears to fallen apart and gone to busses ?

Wonder what happened in such a short space of time. They were working fine when I got on one today at Central at 3:20pm.

 

[Pacef8]

Operational incident ! They need to be a bit more informative what with their current time keeping.

 

[Wezz]

Operational incident ! They need to be a bit more informative what with their current time keeping.

Wasn't anything major.

 

[Bikeman78]

The slight reduction in fleet size was intended to be absorbed by higher availability and a tightening of the timetable, which can not happen while the 777s are still running to 507/508 timings.

How many units do they expect to save? I doubt they will be able to cut anything out on the Wirral lines. Should be able to lose one on the Southport line and possibly one on Ormskirk.

 

[Horseman]

Did/does Kirkby even run 6-car sets on the PEPs? Not sure I’ve ever seen a 6-car running on the Kirkby line.

Good news above that 8-car sets will run on the Ormskirk line. I try and get a 6-car set coming home to be a bit less “sardine”, but my morning run is usually OK on a 3-car at the moment.

The last booked kirkby service from central on a night time prior to the 777s taking over was always a 6 car before running ECS back to the depot.

 

[OL-3944]

Wasn't anything major.

Cat A SPAD. Sounds major to me.

 

[Pep and co]

Can anyone let me know which 777s are working today please?
Thanks in advance for any help with this info

 

[507020]

How many units do they expect to save? I doubt they will be able to cut anything out on the Wirral lines. Should be able to lose one on the Southport line and possibly one on Ormskirk.

Given that 52 of 53 777s replace 59 507/508s, they expect to save 7

Operational incident ! They need to be a bit more informative what with their current time keeping.

Cat A SPAD. Sounds major to me.

With a 777? What signal was it at?

 

[prod_pep]

How many units do they expect to save? I doubt they will be able to cut anything out on the Wirral lines. Should be able to lose one on the Southport line and possibly one on Ormskirk.

One could be saved on the New Brighton line with ease. The route is not run anywhere near its potential with the current 507/8s, and units still cross on the approach to the terminus. The better acceleration of the 777s and a tightening of the timetable would comfortably reduce the requirement from four to three units.

 

[Sam 76]

One could be saved on the New Brighton line with ease. The route is not run anywhere near its potential with the current 507/8s, and units still cross on the approach to the terminus. The better acceleration of the 777s and a tightening of the timetable would comfortably reduce the requirement from four to three units.

How many train diagrams are there to be filled each day ?

 

[507020]

How many train diagrams are there to be filled each day ?

And how many diagrams were there in 2019?

 

[Sam 76]

And how many diagrams were there in 2019?

Yeah. So there’s so many units and how many are needed each day