37 for a basic 3 car on all lines service.
So basically it's theoretically possible depending on reliability, and we have to remember how reliable the old units have been. It's not small task for the new units, and if they end up pulling it off (after shaking out all teething troubles), that will be something to be proud of, IMO.
The point is there WERE for the longest period of time 59 units, but it appears that there are only 51 left, with 8 having gone for scrap and another 2 likely to go soon.Yeah. So there’s so many units and how many are needed each day
Can we have a breakdown of how many diagrams are needed to run 4tph with 3 cars on each line?
To have the minimum three minutes turn round, you'd need to knock eight minutes off the schedule. Is that realistic?
Given the 777s have superior acceleration and braking and the line speed to New Brighton is only 45mph, with 30mph from the curve from Bidston East Junction, it may be realistic to knock time off the schedule with line speed improvements.
A basic 3 coach all lines service needs 10 units for Southport/Hunts Cross, 6 for Ormskirk, 3 for Kirkby, 6 for Chester, 3 for Ellesmere Port, 4 for New Brighton and 5 for West Kirby.
As far as this is concerned, there is a 17 minute layover at Southport. Even a slight reduction in journey time might allow a diagram to be saved already. 75mph between Ainsdale and Hall Road would help.
But bear in mind that
To be fair, if it stays like this with the new trains, it won't be as bad as it is elsewhere, as New Brighton, West Kirby and Kirkby can easily cope with only 4 cars, and Ormskirk, bar the National, is only losing a few peak trains, so there will only be standing on those few services. It can all theoretically work.
Yes, because even the 507/8s could run it several minutes quicker if driven to their potential. The line has been slow since the Wirral Line branches went self-contained in 2002, in order to comfortably accommodate a fourth unit. Dwells of a minute or more are common at the two Wallasey stations and Birkenhead North outbound.
I prefer to wait for the 230s to settle down then combine one with a 777 to Bidston, most likely next year now.
Would there be potential to save a unit by reverting to the old system of running the Hunts Cross section from Kirkby rather than Southport?
I think that's an entirely fair assessment. Presumably the Ormskirk line will re-gain any lost paired workings once they finally sort out the 777 glitches, although I do wonder. Even if temporary, this is completely unacceptable.
Ah, momentarily forgot about the battery situation regarding Kirkby. Has there ever been a time when Ormskirks ran beyond Central, such as if there was an engineering block on the Southport line? Or has it always been Kirkby and then Southport?
However, 5G56 is running, which is the ECS move from Kirkdale to Ormskirk to make a 3-car to a 6-car. This 6-car then runs to Central and forms the 1616 back to Ormskirk, so not sure how their Twitter is correct there.
Yes, Ormskirk trains have run to Hunts Cross on occasion. It happened in early 2019 for a while, due IIRC to a engineering blockade on part of the Southport line. I think there was a late evening Hunts Cross - Ormskirk service vice Kirkby until the Hunts Cross line was paired with Southport in the mid-1980s.
You're quite right. I've miscounted as well as there are six units on the Ormskirk line, not five so the 1616 then does the 1746. It looks as though at least one of the other two will be short-formed instead.
2G54 just passed into Moorfields as a 3-car, and 2O38 (1531 LVC-OMS) passed out as a 4-car 777. (I can see from my office window).
Believe it or not, the 1701 has always been a three car since the timetable was changed for Maghull North. It's definitely not a pleasant experience.
That's probably why the 777 rollout on the Ormskirk line appears to be quicker than the Kirkby line, and why they don't care about the short forms. Free up as many old units as possible to bring the Southports back up to strength. I can see West Kirby and New Brighton also being converted ASAP to help with this.
Eek! I suppose the hope is that people are only leaving work at 5pm and so likely won't make it to the station in time. The 1616 is sometimes a 3-car and even that one is very, er... cosy!
I remember in the pre-May 2018 timetable the 1655 Central - Ormskirk (three car) was badly overcrowded too. The 1710 ex-Central was a six car working in that setup.
