Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[irish_rail]

The plan is as MR-507508 states with complete conversion of firstly the Kirkby line, followed by the Ormskirk, New Brighton and West Kirby services. It is likely that there will be a period of mixed operation on the Chester and Southport/Hunts Cross routes due to the requirement for larger numbers of units. 14x Class 507 sets to be retained for double unit working until NR complete outstanding infrastructure alterations.

Acceptance of units by Merseytravel continues once required fault free mileage figures are attained.

Any idea how long the 14 saved 507s are likely to run for? We talking short or medium term? Thanks.

 

[Ribbleman]

Presumably if they want the Kirkby service to go over entirely to 777s (in anticipation of Headbolt Lane opening) then they want it to be irreversible so there won’t be any 507/508s available for cover because they will have gone for scrap.

The reason for the Kirkby service being chosen as the first to be converted is because it is the shortest route, requiring only 3 units and passes Kirkdale Depot, making rescues and substitutions relatively easy.
I think it unlikely that any serviceable 507 and 508 sets will be sent for scrap until the 777s prove to be reliable in traffic.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was on the understanding they would need to revert the whole of the Kirkby line to 777 operation to start with, since there would be differences in timetable/timings due to the faster acceleration of the class 777 compared to class 507/508. I was told this from one of the open day events in recent weeks.

Are they continuing to accept the units once their fault-free running has been completed?

Initially the class 777 would run the the existing timetable. I can't think of any new train introduction where the older trains haven't occasionally stood in for the new ones during the transition period. The closest I can think of is King's Lynn but even there I think a class 365 appeared after the line was booked 100% class 387.

 

[Ribbleman]

Any idea how long the 14 saved 507s are likely to run for? We talking short or medium term? Thanks.

In March this year I was told that arrangements had been made with Angel Trains to retain 14 x Class 507 for two years. It was thought that this would be sufficient time for Network Rail to re-site a number of signals, carry out platform lengthening at Southport, adjust the track geometry of the headshunt at Liverpool Central and complete other works. Whether two years will be sufficient only time will tell.

 

[507020]

The reason for the Kirkby service being chosen as the first to be converted is because it is the shortest route, requiring only 3 units and passes Kirkdale Depot, making rescues and substitutions relatively easy.
I think it unlikely that any serviceable 507 and 508 sets will be sent for scrap until the 777s prove to be reliable in traffic.

Of course these factors make it the least risky route to convert first while the 777s are still being proven, but of course it needs to be the first because 507/508s can’t run to Headbolt Lane which will probably be half built by the time the 777s enter service.

Initially the class 777 would run the the existing timetable. I can't think of any new train introduction where the older trains haven't occasionally stood in for the new ones during the transition period. The closest I can think of is King's Lynn but even there I think a class 365 appeared after the line was booked 100% class 387.

But if they want 7 units to run 3 diagrams, does it not look like they are trying to minimise the chance of this happening?

In March this year I was told that arrangements had been made with Angel Trains to retain 14 x Class 507 for two years. It was thought that this would be sufficient time for Network Rail to re-site a number of signals, carry out platform lengthening at Southport, adjust the track geometry of the headshunt at Liverpool Central and complete other works. Whether two years will be sufficient only time will tell.

The problem now is that Network Rail will have been subsumed within 2 years and that is 2 years from the 777s entering service. I think Southport is meant to be being done quite soon but the reversing siding at Liverpool Central is only necessary when running the full 15 minute service on all lines. With the current 20 minute service, they seem to be able to manage without it.

 

[D821]

Of course these factors make it the least risky route to convert first while the 777s are still being proven, but of course it needs to be the first because 507/508s can’t run to Headbolt Lane which will probably be half built by the time the 777s enter service.

But if they want 7 units to run 3 diagrams, does it not look like they are trying to minimise the chance of this happening?

The problem now is that Network Rail will have been subsumed within 2 years and that is 2 years from the 777s entering service. I think Southport is meant to be being done quite soon but the reversing siding at Liverpool Central is only necessary when running the full 15 minute service on all lines. With the current 20 minute service, they seem to be able to manage without it.

What's the reversing siding needed for? (Please don't just say reversing )

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's the reversing siding needed for? (Please don't just say reversing )

It's been used for Ormskirk services for a while, I believe, after many years of not being used for service trains. I think due to the need to put an extra unit in the circuit when Maghull North opened, and the longer layover that requires.

 

[507020]

It's been used for Ormskirk services for a while, I believe, after many years of not being used for service trains. I think due to the need to put an extra unit in the circuit when Maghull North opened, and the longer layover that requires.

Pre-covid, Kirkby services reversed in platform 1, Southport services obviously ran through to Hunts Cross and Ormskirk services would arrive in platform 1 announcing this train is not in service, run into the reversing siding while the Southport train came past and then run back into platform 2. Strangely Southport services were timed to take 4 minutes from Moorfields to Sandhills but Ormskirk services only took 3, so you would accelerate noticeably faster.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a lot of power supply work going on on the Chester-Rock Ferry line at the moment.
There are large new Siemens installations at Capenhurst, Bromborough and Bebington, with lots of lineside work between these places.
I don't know how critical this work is to class 777 introduction.

 

[Ribbleman]

There's a lot of power supply work going on on the Chester-Rock Ferry line at the moment.
There are large new Siemens installations at Capenhurst, Bromborough and Bebington, with lots of lineside work between these places.
I don't know how critical this work is to class 777 introduction.

The 777s will draw more current. The works should be complete by the time the Chester line stock is changed over.

 

[jamesst]

The Chester line has long been a nightmare in terms of power supply with the power dropping at one point to 450v dc in places.
Quite simply the 777s wouldn't be able to cope with that.

 

[Rob1969]

Can anyone confirm which 777s are still at Crewe LNWR please?

 

[Skie]

The Chester line has long been a nightmare in terms of power supply with the power dropping at one point to 450v dc in places.
Quite simply the 777s wouldn't be able to cope with that.

The 777’s have been really useful in identifying problem areas as they’re packed with sensors and monitoring equipment. Handy to have actual data to show network rail when and where the line voltage is low.

 

[Bikeman78]

The Chester line has long been a nightmare in terms of power supply with the power dropping at one point to 450v dc in places.
Quite simply the 777s wouldn't be able to cope with that.

Ironically it's the only place that the 507/508 get to 75 mph so they evidently don't have a problem with it.

 

[D821]

Don't they hit 75 between Meols and Moreton on the West Kirby branch?

 

[jamesst]

They don't get to 75 anywhere.
Hooton South Junction to bache is 70 and Moreton to Meols 60.

 

[Bikeman78]

They don't get to 75 anywhere.
Hooton South Junction to bache is 70 and Moreton to Meols 60.

Perhaps some of the speedos under read or my GPS happens not to be accurate south of Hooton but my point still stands. It's the fastest section on the network.

 

[jamesst]

Perhaps some of the speedos under read or my GPS happens not to be accurate south of Hooton but my point still stands. It's the fastest section on the network.

Certainly is, nice route to drive outside of leaf fall season!

 

[MattRat]

Ironically it's the only place that the 507/508 get to 75 mph so they evidently don't have a problem with it.

Since when have they ever had a problem with track bar tight curves? The 777s have a mountain to climb in terms of reliability.

 

[Rob1969]

Morning all

Trying to do an audit of what 777s are here and where they all are at the moment. Does anyone have any information they can share please?

Cheers Rob

 

[8A Rail]

Morning all

Trying to do an audit of what 777s are here and where they all are at the moment. Does anyone have any information they can share please?

Cheers Rob

Update as of this month - posted in good faith.

Kirkdale = 001, 003, 004, 006, 008, 010, 012, and 014.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 007, 009, 016 and 018.

None at WOJn MSC Sidings.

Not arrived so far (excluding 019 onwards) = 011, 013, 015 & 017?

 

[507020]

Update as of this month - posted in good faith.

Kirkdale = 001, 003, 004, 006, 008, 010, 012, and 014.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 007, 009, 016 and 018.

None at WOJn MSC Sidings.

Not arrived so far (excluding 019 onwards) = 011, 013, 015 & 017?

Why are there none at Warrington now?

 

[gka472l]

Update as of this month - posted in good faith.

Kirkdale = 001, 003, 004, 006, 008, 010, 012, and 014.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 007, 009, 016 and 018.

None at WOJn MSC Sidings.

Not arrived so far (excluding 019 onwards) = 011, 013, 015 & 017?

As an aside, do we know how many are actually completed but stored abroad???

Thanks.

 

[Rob1969]

Update as of this month - posted in good faith.

Kirkdale = 001, 003, 004, 006, 008, 010, 012, and 014.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 007, 009, 016 and 018.

None at WOJn MSC Sidings.

Not arrived so far (excluding 019 onwards) = 011, 013, 015 & 017?

Many thanks much appreciated

 

[Liverpool 507]

Why are there none at Warrington now?

Cost related apparently

 

[Ribbleman]

As an aside, do we know how many are actually completed but stored abroad???

Thanks.

Unit 053 is in build so it seems reasonable to assume that the vast majority of sets are now complete.

 

[507020]

Unit 053 is in build so it seems reasonable to assume that the vast majority of sets are now complete.

But 53 isn’t the majority if 112 ultimately end up getting built.

 

[43096]

But 53 isn’t the majority if 112 ultimately end up getting built.

What's 112 got to do with it? The order currently is 53, so if unit 53 is in build then it is a logical conclusion that the majority (if not all) the sets have been built.

 

[ashkeba]

Initially the class 777 would run the the existing timetable. I can't think of any new train introduction where the older trains haven't occasionally stood in for the new ones during the transition period. The closest I can think of is King's Lynn but even there I think a class 365 appeared after the line was booked 100% class 387.

Not the same as class 387 were introduced on Thameslink before use on Kings Lynn.

 

[karlbbb]

Are there any CoViD considerations in the mix for the delays too? On my daily rail journey past Kirkdale this morning, I noticed the 777s don't have opening windows, something which is being encouraged on the 507/508s in the interests of ventilation (but also being ignored as the cold mornings have drawn in). Or are the frequent door openings on a stopping commuter considered enough circulation?