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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

karlbbb

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Other way round. They should be set warmer in winter and cooler in summer.
Nope. For the reasons stated, it should be set cooler in the winter (as people are layered up) and warmer in the summer (as people likely won't even have coats/jackets on). It also represents an energy saving.

It's horribly uncomfortable getting on a train that's 22C or hotter when you're wrapped up in a winter coat, and only using the trains for short journeys means you aren't going to remove coats and scarves as you'll often be off the train again within 20 minutes.
 
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aleandrail

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As per the post below, driver training for these takes 8 days, so there should be crew finishing the training course this week, if some haven't already finished it



I do love how the discourse in this thread has gone from "It is unacceptable and a political failure that these units are so late into passenger service" to "It is unacceptable that these units have been introduced into passenger service too quickly."
Sounds like Starmer
 

43096

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Nope. For the reasons stated, it should be set cooler in the winter (as people are layered up) and warmer in the summer (as people likely won't even have coats/jackets on). It also represents an energy saving.

It's horribly uncomfortable getting on a train that's 22C or hotter when you're wrapped up in a winter coat, and only using the trains for short journeys means you aren't going to remove coats and scarves as you'll often be off the train again within 20 minutes.
Sorry, but you’re completely wrong. The requirement is a wave if warm air in winter and cool air in summer as you get on. I’ll bet many air conditioned cars are run with a cooler temperature setting in summer than winter, including mine. And that includes if I leave my coat for a short journey.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Nope. For the reasons stated, it should be set cooler in the winter (as people are layered up) and warmer in the summer (as people likely won't even have coats/jackets on). It also represents an energy saving
Ridiculous. Get yourself on a 455 in summer and tell me that it’s fine being so warm because you don’t have layers on. The 707s, meanwhile, are freezing in summer, and boy does it feel good stepping on one.
 

Bertie the bus

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As per the post below, driver training for these takes 8 days, so there should be crew finishing the training course this week, if some haven't already finished it



I do love how the discourse in this thread has gone from "It is unacceptable and a political failure that these units are so late into passenger service" to "It is unacceptable that these units have been introduced into passenger service too quickly."
Presumably you also love the fact they are cancelling passenger services to enable this type of introduction which is no doubt not due to the risk of failure and disruption during the peak but because they haven't got any crew trained and they are using 1 shift of a driver manager/instructor. They are being introduced in a cack-handed way for reasons other than passenger’s benefit. That should be obvious to anybody. Seeing as they are several years late waiting another few weeks until they have some crew trained and they could introduce them properly isn’t that much to expect.
 

Grumpy Git

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I’m on the 14:58 ex Kirkby now and it’s a massive upgrade on the existing stock. I’m well chuffed so far.

Nice big windows and good alignment, super quiet and quick.
 

XAM2175

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Also according to onboard staff you can 'pre-arm' the doors to open by pressing the button before the train stops. The will then open immediately after they are released.
Which is used commonly on Stadler stock in mainland Europe. Good to see it here.
I'm half-prepared to bet it doesn't last, given how it's been a standard feature across several manufacturers on the continent for a long time without ever making it onto these shores. The new Stadler units for S-Bahn Berlin even allow passengers to open a set of doors using the button on the opposite set.

Nope. For the reasons stated, it should be set cooler in the winter (as people are layered up) and warmer in the summer (as people likely won't even have coats/jackets on). It also represents an energy saving.

It's horribly uncomfortable getting on a train that's 22C or hotter when you're wrapped up in a winter coat, and only using the trains for short journeys means you aren't going to remove coats and scarves as you'll often be off the train again within 20 minutes.
I'm in partial agreement here; in winter operators should absolutely set the onboard temperature to a lower point to account for everybody being rugged up. In summer though, it should still be cooler onboard than the outside air. Obviously the latter in particular has a "within reason" caveat though - it should be a bit of a relief to step aboard, but not so much that you're being frozen.
 

karlbbb

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I'm in partial agreement here; in winter operators should absolutely set the onboard temperature to a lower point to account for everybody being rugged up. In summer though, it should still be cooler onboard than the outside air. Obviously the latter in particular has a "within reason" caveat though - it should be a bit of a relief to step aboard, but not so much that you're being frozen.
Absolutely, and that was my point - we're only talking a couple of degrees difference here. 17C over winter and 20C would likely feel very pleasant, and accounts for winter/summer-wear for the majority.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm in partial agreement here; in winter operators should absolutely set the onboard temperature to a lower point to account for everybody being rugged up. In summer though, it should still be cooler onboard than the outside air. Obviously the latter in particular has a "within reason" caveat though - it should be a bit of a relief to step aboard, but not so much that you're being frozen.

I always take my coat off on the train (remember in the North West it's often not just cold but also wet, and leaving a wet coat on for it to drip all over your trousers is just not nice). If it's freezing cold outside (remember most Merseyrail stations don't have indoor waiting facilities) then it being a bit too warm on the train is welcome.

Personally I'd go 20-21 degrees all year round, ideally 20. I believe that's the norm on most existing air-conditioned trains when it's working correctly.

17 is way too cold.
 

Parjon

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Watching this Twitter vid of 777049, it seems odd that the door closing seems to go to random doors in turn, not even in a cascading fashion. While I'm sure there's not an issue, it felt a little jarring to see they weren't all closed at the same time. The last door closing a few seconds after the first one will surely be totting up a good few minutes over the course of a day.
I see Merseyrail are reminding people they have to press the button to enter/exit. I presume this is already causing issues. If someone forgets to push the button there is going to be a few seconds delay while the step extends, before the door starts to open.

Hopefully Merseyrail will have the good common sense to open all doors automatically at Central Liverpool stations and other busy stations, as they do on the underground. But they don't seem to have done so today.
 

mcnw35282

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I do love how the discourse in this thread has gone from "It is unacceptable and a political failure that these units are so late into passenger service" to "It is unacceptable that these units have been introduced into passenger service too quickly"
Absolutely nailed it, mate. People crying and moaning for months about the trains not being in service. Merseyrail send one unit out and they're still crying and moaning! I love visiting these forums just to see what's upsetting them today!
 

norbitonflyer

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Presumably you also love the fact they are cancelling passenger services to enable this type of introduction which is no doubt not due to the risk of failure and disruption during the peak but because they haven't got any crew trained and they are using 1 shift of a driver manager/instructor. They are being introduced in a cack-handed way for reasons other than passenger’s benefit. That should be obvious to anybody. Seeing as they are several years late waiting another few weeks until they have some crew trained and they could introduce them properly isn’t that much to expect.
So you want to train the drivers quickly, but don't want to free up any paths to let it happen.
 

Bertie the bus

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So you want to train the drivers quickly, but don't want to free up any paths to let it happen.
They are not cancelling them to facilitate driver training. They are cancelling them so they can faff about swapping units so a 777 can run a few daytime return trips.

In previous weeks they have cancelled services to facilitate training. If that is the only way of doing it then there is no alternative but I can't really understand why it is the only way of doing it when fault free running was done on the Southport line without the need to cancel anything. Why can't driver training runs run in the same non-disruptive paths? There may be a very good reason, it is a genuine question.
 

43096

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They are not cancelling them to facilitate driver training. They are cancelling them so they can faff about swapping units so a 777 can run a few daytime return trips.

In previous weeks they have cancelled services to facilitate training. If that is the only way of doing it then there is no alternative but I can't really understand why it is the only way of doing it when fault free running was done on the Southport line without the need to cancel anything. Why can't driver training runs run in the same non-disruptive paths? There may be a very good reason, it is a genuine question.
Because to train crews they will need them available to be trained, which needs them to be taken off other duties. Fault free running is usually crewed by other companies such as freight operators.
 

childwallblues

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They are not cancelling them to facilitate driver training. They are cancelling them so they can faff about swapping units so a 777 can run a few daytime return trips.

In previous weeks they have cancelled services to facilitate training. If that is the only way of doing it then there is no alternative but I can't really understand why it is the only way of doing it when fault free running was done on the Southport line without the need to cancel anything. Why can't driver training runs run in the same non-disruptive paths? There may be a very good reason, it is a genuine question.
Well part of the Kirkby line is single track.
 

Bertie the bus

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Well part of the Kirkby line is single track.
Driver training is rarely restricted to the route the trains are going to run on. To give one example, when Northern first got their 319s for the Chat Moss electrification driver training took place between Crewe and Liverpool South Parkway. Unless there is a specific policy at Merseyrail which doesn't apply to other TOCs there is no particular reason why traction training needs to take place on the Kirkby line.
 

childwallblues

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Doesn't make good good PR to have a launch, then next day have everyone commenting on social media that new trains have already stopped running.

It is more better PR to park one in a spare bay or loop platform and invite everyone to come and view it, saying they are going to be rolled out in next few weeks.
Name me a spare bay ot loop on the Northern Line other than Southport which is 18 miles from Liverpool?
 

Wezz

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The ones that closed sooner will likely be on a timer to keep the aircon in. You see the same thing on newer stock all over the place.

For a DOO operation as it basically is, that's slow and clunky, though. Maybe they'll be a bit quicker when they're used to it? On most DOO operations the release is pressed pretty much as the wheels stop turning and power is taken almost immediately after interlock.
That's correct, the doors will automatically close after 30 seconds or so to keep the train warm/cool depending on the time of year.
 

100andthirty

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Some more points from.onboard crew.
-They're going to increase the announcement volume because it's a bit too quiet.
-The seats are hard because the foam has to meet fire standards due to tunnel running, plus the average journey time is only 20 minutes.
It's perfectly possible to design seat that are comfortable and fire standards.
 

800001

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After seeing a few pictures/videos, I do like the red lighting that flashes around the doors as they are closing.
 

Bletchleyite

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After seeing a few pictures/videos, I do like the red lighting that flashes around the doors as they are closing.

Only thing I think that (and standards generally) miss is the idea of having a different tone for "stand clear, too late" and "just closing to keep the aircon in, press the button to reopen", the latter could be flashing yellow.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I also heard a member of staff saying the same thing about the seats and tunnel regs.

My first thought was that it was a complete load of wibble.

Nice train, if a little soulless. Terrible, terrible seats. Not sure they’ll ever be a worthy successor to the PEPs.
Just from seeing mere videos of the inside they look miles, miles better. In some ways, nostalgic mindsets are nice, in others they are terrible awful things.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I didn't assume. I know. Ive read you saying it (as I recall when you've been slating the place).

It doesn't give you a pass and you still dont get a vote on our trains!!!
I hope this a joke, else shame on you for the arrogance ;)
 

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