Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[danbarnstall]

It’s scheduled to run tomorrow in the same path. A staff member told me today it may only be Monday to Friday this week.

For those asking for a more rapid move to the units it’s tricky. The deal with aslef was only ratified less than a week ago. To train a driver it requires moving them out the link for 2 weeks.

As far as I am aware Merseyrail do not have a RDW agreement so it becomes more difficult to do that in large numbers without impacting other services. Which is probably why haven’t seen a big bang move with a large number coming into operation from day 1.

Does anyone know if the 777 is going to be in service for the rest of the week and if yes does anyone have a timetable of which services are 777 operated on Liverpool-Kirkby as I might take a ride on it if possible

 

[507 001]

I’d happily take a PEP’s shonky window alignment over back ache.

 

[Parjon]

I hope this a joke, else shame on you for the arrogance

Of course it's silliness

It’s not nostalgia. The seats really are that bad.

I’d happily take a PEP’s shonky window alignment over back ache.

It's stage 2. Moving on from having educated people to keep their feet off the seats, now they will be taught to sit up straight.

 

[Techniquest]

That front end of the 777 looks mighty ugly, but overall it looks like a decent train. I'm certainly excited about finally trying them out!

 

[OutdoorM]

I also heard a member of staff saying the same thing about the seats and tunnel regs.

My first thought was that it was a complete load of wibble.

Nice train, if a little soulless. Terrible, terrible seats. Not sure they’ll ever be a worthy successor to the PEPs.

Indeed, the seats look a bit close together - I did like the gap on the current sets as it reduces invasion of personal space and gives larger people / fidgeting kids more space

Also, no to the the yellow submarines being a name. WE need to look forward as a city, and there is a lot more history than just the Beatles.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks @Bletchleyite @Trainbike46 that certainly makes sense!

On a related note - do the trains run on a fixed temperature set point, and is that changeable by the driver? I'm hoping the trains won't fall into the trap of just blasting A/C in the summer and heat in the winter. Ideally you'd aim for a lower temperature over winter (say 16-17C) due to people mostly being wrapped up in big coats, and aim for something like 21-22C over summer due to people wearing (sometimes much) less clothing. This also means less energy usage overall.

I agree.

Other way round. They should be set warmer in winter and cooler in summer.

I beg to differ. My local pub is so cold in summer I have to remember to carry a coat there and back.

Ridiculous. Get yourself on a 455 in summer and tell me that it’s fine being so warm because you don’t have layers on. The 707s, meanwhile, are freezing in summer, and boy does it feel good stepping on one.

Well it depends how warm said 455 is. I can believe it will be warmer than 25 degC on a hot summers day uncomfortable but having air-conditioning bring it down to 20 or less is unpleasant if you are dressed for temperatures warmer than 30 degC.

Overall I would say we need aircon that allows the temperature to be a certain amount warmer in summer than in winter. Otherwise the temperature difference between inside and outside is to aggressive. Furthermore I have noticed that using all this energy to drive indoor temperatures too far is warming up the planet - all well and good in the winter !.

I am sure the 777s wil generally be an improvement and the ideal temperature will always be different for different people.

 

[Techniquest]

Regarding train warmth, I'd like to chip in here. Recently I did a Eurostar from London to Amsterdam and back (not on the same day, thankfully), and it has to be said the temperature on board really wasn't good enough. I had to put a coat on after a couple of hours, just to bring my warmth back up to a normal level! So I'd absolutely agree with having it nice and warm on a 777 in winter!

 

[bramling]

The ones that closed sooner will likely be on a timer to keep the aircon in. You see the same thing on newer stock all over the place.

For a DOO operation as it basically is, that's slow and clunky, though. Maybe they'll be a bit quicker when they're used to it? On most DOO operations the release is pressed pretty much as the wheels stop turning and power is taken almost immediately after interlock.

On the latter point, that isn’t really supposed to happen. Indeed TOCs go as far as to look for a slight delay before the doors are released, whilst the driver confirms the correct platform side. Likewise after the doors close to carry out the “safety check” and of course a final check of any signal aspect. I know it doesn’t always happen like this, but that’s another matter!

As ever an exception is LU where the whole process is slightly different as a result of safeguards like correct side door enable and monitors which remain on whilst the train leaves the platform.

Just from seeing mere videos of the inside they look miles, miles better. In some ways, nostalgic mindsets are nice, in others they are terrible awful things.

The 507/508s will be a hard act to follow, and in their refurbished state the interiors are pretty good and fit-for-purpose. This isn’t a case of nostalgia but functionality.

Where the new trains should certainly have an edge is in terms of performance and reliability, and hopefully reducing the long standing issues with wheel/rail interface in the loop.

 

[Liverpool 507]

The METRO branding on the side of the 777 units, for those who haven’t yet seen this. 777049 is yet to receive this.

 

[Skie]

Regarding train warmth, I'd like to chip in here. Recently I did a Eurostar from London to Amsterdam and back (not on the same day, thankfully), and it has to be said the temperature on board really wasn't good enough. I had to put a coat on after a couple of hours, just to bring my warmth back up to a normal level! So I'd absolutely agree with having it nice and warm on a 777 in winter!
!

You can’t compare a commuter setup like Merseyrail with a long distance operator like Eurostar.

Someone will get on a Merseyrail train for 10-20 minutes, sometimes rammed and shoulder to shoulder. Nobody is saying the trains should be freezing or roasting, just not such a vast difference you need to remove or put on layers to cope with the change.

 

[Vespa]

The onboard staff today expected that a single 777 will work this diagram on weekdays, for this week at least:

2K17 1050 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G78 1113 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K20 1135 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G81 1158 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K23 1220 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G84 1243 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K26 1305 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G87 1328 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K29 1350 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G90 1413 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K32 1435 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G93 1458 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K35 1520 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G96 1543 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K38 1605 Liverpool Central to Kirkby

Shame I was hoping for a saturday run, unfortunately my shift this week prevents me from coming down and have a ride.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

I can't see chucking in the odd service as anything other than a PR fail. It will not be met with good reaction that only a service here and there (at least for now) is the public's brand new trains coming into service.

It is a fairly common way to do it though.
Down here in late 2020 with the HCMT did 1 return run from Pakenham to Flinders Street as an extra service. A week later it did another extra service. After that they introduced set cycles. Finally once enough were running they were given free reign.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The onboard staff today expected that a single 777 will work this diagram on weekdays, for this week at least:

2K17 1050 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G78 1113 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K20 1135 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G81 1158 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K23 1220 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G84 1243 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K26 1305 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G87 1328 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K29 1350 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G90 1413 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K32 1435 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G93 1458 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K35 1520 Liverpool Central to Kirkby
2G96 1543 Kirkby to Liverpool Central
2K38 1605 Liverpool Central to Kirkby

Something is working that diagram today (entered service as 2G72, 0943 Kirkby to Central, having arrived at Kirkby at 0937 (5K72) from Kirkdale CS. Then 2K14, 2G75, 2K17 and as above. Is it a 777?

 

[gledhill56]

Something is working that diagram today (entered service as 2G72, 0943 Kirkby to Central, having arrived at Kirkby at 0937 (5K72) from Kirkdale CS. Then 2K14, 2G75, 2K17 and as above. Is it a 777?

Merseyrail Twitter confirms that it is a 777 working that diagram.

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1617791086771986433?s=46&t=GMW7dxTC5Aj1yS2BdhPZiw

The first service of the day of the new Class 777 train will be in operation on the Kirkby line at 09.43 from Kirkby.

 

[Lloyds siding]

I love the complaints that the 777s haven't been introduced all at once. When the 507/8s were being repainted in Merseyrail yellow there were letters to the press complaining about why they couldn't paint them all over one weekend!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regarding train warmth, I'd like to chip in here. Recently I did a Eurostar from London to Amsterdam and back (not on the same day, thankfully), and it has to be said the temperature on board really wasn't good enough. I had to put a coat on after a couple of hours, just to bring my warmth back up to a normal level! So I'd absolutely agree with having it nice and warm on a 777 in winter!

As for the fleet's nickname, I felt my eyes rolling at the suggestion of them being 'Yellow Submarines'. Someone suggested Hornets, which would be a little more appropriate, although I can't say I like it too much either given I detest wasps and similar insects!

There is a fly that looks like a wasp but with no sting. Its called a Hover Fly - linky here.

You can’t compare a commuter setup like Merseyrail with a long distance operator like Eurostar.

Someone will get on a Merseyrail train for 10-20 minutes, sometimes rammed and shoulder to shoulder. Nobody is saying the trains should be freezing or roasting, just not such a vast difference you need to remove or put on layers to cope with the change.

A good description of the need to keep the temperature suited to not too far from what people are wearing. Granted, if it is -10 degC outside you want it a lot warmer but not 20degC as that is too extreme.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I love the complaints that the 777s haven't been introduced all at once. When the 507/8s were being repainted in Merseyrail yellow there were letters to the press complaining about why they couldn't paint them all over one weekend!

TfL hastily withdrew all its Platinum Jubilee liveried buses on September 8th. Even though each one was maintained by a different garage, it was over a week before any of them re-emerged in standard red livery (and in one case, with its original registration number restored)

 

[gledhill56]

I love the complaints that the 777s haven't been introduced all at once. When the 507/8s were being repainted in Merseyrail yellow there were letters to the press complaining about why they couldn't paint them all over one weekend!

I’m finding the complaints about passengers having push a button to open the doors themselves hilarious. Most seem to think this means their train doesn’t have a guard to open the door for them.

 

[DJH1971]

Is it 777049 working today or a different unit?

 

[karlbbb]

I’m finding the complaints about passengers having push a button to open the doors themselves hilarious. Most seem to think this means their train doesn’t have a guard to open the door for them.

I suppose in two senses there isn't a guard opening the door for them anymore! They're now "Train Manager" and not "Guard", and it's now the driver releasing the doors.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss updates regarding Merseyrail 777s.

For any discussion of a speculative nature (such as proposed announcemen changes, nicknames etc) please use the Speculative Discussion section.

For any discussion relating to trip planning, trip experiences please use the Trip Planning & Reports section.

Also seat preferences are best posted elsewhere, so that we can keep this thread dedicated to actual updates regarding the trains introduction.

Many thanks

 

[samrammstein]

According to Merseyrail's Twitter feed, the first 777 service this morning was 2G74 0943 KIR-LVC which formed off 5K72 from XKK (that working is MSSuX for this week only).

So we may assume the 0943 will be the first 777 service each day this week, with the diagram carrying on the same as yesterday finishing with the 1605 off Central forming 5D38 back from Kirkby later on.

Maybe when we get multiple diagrams out regularly it might be handy to maintain a dedicated '777 diagrams' thread in the timetable section of the forum.

 

[Liverpool 507]

777003 should be the next in service.

 

[samrammstein]

Is it 777049 working today or a different unit?

From a few YouTube clips I've seen this afternoon it was 777049 again today, much less crowded by the looks of it.

I overheard the onboard staff yesterday saying that a few units had been out running ECS on Sunday and 049 performed the best out of them so was therefore chosen for the maiden voyage.

 

[childwallblues]

Well avoiding the hulabaloo of yesterday I took my first 777 rides today. I travelled from Sandhills to Kirkby and return in the morning and in the afternoon from Sandhills to Liverpool Central all journeys on 777049. On board no press, no cameras, no politicians and no enthusiasts visible. Just the good folk of Merseyside whose opinion counts more than anybody elses. And all you heard was positivity and at the end of the day that is what counts. If the regular users like them great.
And to counter what a previous post stated they do have Metro on the ends.

 

[Ribbleman]

Well avoiding the hulabaloo of yesterday I took my first 777 rides today. I travelled from Sandhills to Kirkby and return in the morning and in the afternoon from Sandhills to Liverpool Central all journeys on 777049. On board no press, no cameras, no politicians and no enthusiasts visible. Just the good folk of Merseyside whose opinion counts more than anybody elses. And all you heard was positivity and at the end of the day that is what counts. If the regular users like them great.
And to counter what a previous post stated they do have Metro on the ends.

They do indeed have Metro on the ends.

 

[Vespa]

Will they be running on saturdays ?

 

[Rick1984]

How do they achieve a level floor throughout on these, compared to the multiple levels on the Flirts?

 

[childwallblues]

How do they achieve a level floor throughout on these, compared to the multiple levels on the Flirts?

There are no internal doors between carriages. There is a small ramp that runs between each carriage.

 

[43102EMR]

Any word on weekend workings?