Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Wezz]

Class 777s seem bouncier than the 507s/508s.

Did 009 came out?

No, a 508 was brought out of the depot instead.

 

[Skie]

The engineering work to enable central and the turn back siding to handle 8 car trains is due to be done between the 26th of Feb and the 1st of March.

Planned Engineering Work

Check for possible delays and disruptions on your route with our planned maintenance work updates

www.merseyrail.org

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The door faults will be down to real world psssengers randomly opening or closing individual doors, during FFM I would imagine all the doors were opened and closed as one, it works great without the Human element, once you add them in the mix you start getting this.

As i always say spending too long testing trains without passengers is pointless and they should be put into service as soon as the safety and functional testing has been completed but with adequate back up with extra technical staff on hand.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As i always say spending too long testing trains without passengers is pointless and they should be put into service as soon as the safety and functional testing has been completed but with adequate back up with extra technical staff on hand.

I feel like they should have had a static display with supervision just on the surface by a station and let people open and close the doors all day (well closing auto after 30s), I'm no expert on space in Merseyside so idk where they'd fit the display that it'd be easy to access, nor how possible it would be, but I feel like that would've been a decent way to test it.

 

[507020]

As i always say spending too long testing trains without passengers is pointless and they should be put into service as soon as the safety and functional testing has been completed but with adequate back up with extra technical staff on hand.

But it wasn’t just testing for the sake of it. They had no union acceptance until this year, so they couldn’t enter service any faster regardless. It looks like they have more than sufficient technical staff at Kirkdale, which couldn’t be better located for a Liverpool Central - Kirkby service.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Anyone have any ideas when we might be seeing a second one out? We're gonna need a good few ready for Headbolt Lane's opening. I assume some drivers will be closer to being trained now?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But it wasn’t just testing for the sake of it. They had no union acceptance until this year, so they couldn’t enter service any faster regardless. It looks like they have more than sufficient technical staff at Kirkdale, which couldn’t be better located for a Liverpool Central - Kirkby service.

No criticism levelled at the MerseyRail situation just a global comment that any new train is best put into service with passengers using it as soon as possible to shake down all the issues that testing just can't simulate.

 

[Sam 76]

777s back running today on the same diagram didn’t catch the number though if anyone wanted to know

 

[Vinnym]

777s back running today on the same diagram didn’t catch the number though if anyone wanted to know

Seen it from the road bridge at Fazackerley heading towards Kirkby at around 07.50, it was too far away to indentify the unit no. Was really surprised how many people got off at Fazackerley, probably heading to work at Aintree Hospital.

 

[cjbirkett]

049 on Kirkby diagram today

018 also out on training. Just arrived Sandhills from Hillside

EDIT: 1445 Just arrived into Southport and 004 and 010 are in the sidings on the Liverpool side of the station approach

 

[Liverpool 507]

049 on Kirkby diagram today

018 also out on training. Just arrived Sandhills from Hillside

EDIT: 1445 Just arrived into Southport and 004 and 010 are in the sidings on the Liverpool side of the station approach

Birkdale Sidings are being used to keep some units out of the way whilst other 777s return from storage and are delivered to Kirkdale.

 

[cjbirkett]

Cheers thanks for the info

Birkdale Sidings are being used to keep some units out of the way whilst other 777s return from storage and are delivered to Kirkdale.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I feel like they should have had a static display with supervision just on the surface by a station and let people open and close the doors all day (well closing auto after 30s), I'm no expert on space in Merseyside so idk where they'd fit the display that it'd be easy to access, nor how possible it would be, but I feel like that would've been a decent way to test it.

Obviously that ship has sailed now, but one location that springs to mind for such a purpose would be one of the bays at Rock Ferry.

 

[jamesst]

Obviously that ship has sailed now, but one location that springs to mind for such a purpose would be one of the bays at Rock Ferry.

That could of literally only been used for at most a few hours at a time, the bays are used heavily for changeovers and getting any demics out the way and at night for storage.
Hooton bay would probably of been a better bet but even that sees daily use.

 

[Wyrleybart]

No criticism levelled at the MerseyRail situation just a global comment that any new train is best put into service with passengers using it as soon as possible to shake down all the issues that testing just can't simulate.

Or at least with "staff" testing doors at station calls during FFM.
Thrashing new trains up and down without stopping and opening the doors is a fudged way of accepting new trains IMHO. The FFM of the GWR 800s by FOC drivers proved that, and no criticism levelled at the FOC drivers at all. .

 

[Pacef8]

Surely one of the battery units could be used anywhere and not necessarily at a station such as the non used platform at lime street or street level on st George’s plateau .

 

[prod_pep]

Had my first ride on a 777 this evening, and interestingly three passengers sat behind me, all of whom were travelling separately, gave it a very poor appraisal indeed. Chief criticisms were the hard seating, the inferior ride quality compared with the old trains and the lack of natural ventilation (the third point admittedly rather moot). One went so far as to say she "hated them" and much preferred the older trains. The ride quality is without a doubt a step back from the 507/8s, noticeably rougher and bouncier, and there were already rattles audible in my carriage.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Had my first ride on a 777 this evening, and interestingly three passengers sat behind me, all of whom were travelling separately, gave it a very poor appraisal indeed. Chief criticisms were the hard seating, the inferior ride quality compared with the old trains and the lack of natural ventilation (the third point admittedly rather moot). One went so far as to say she "hated them" and much preferred the older trains. The ride quality is without a doubt a step back from the 507/8s, noticeably rougher and bouncier, and there were already rattles audible in my carriage.

They definitely sound like they were enthusiasts. They were similar comments, and much worse, when Northern introduced the 195s on enthusiast forums but I travelled extensively on them at the time and never heard a single negative comment from real passengers but plenty of positive ones. The ride is inferior. it is a bit more lively and there is more side to side swaying but it is only really noticeable if you are the sort of person who is deliberately looking for differences, like I was last week when I did the same journey on both types of stock.

 

[prod_pep]

They definitely sound like they were enthusiasts. They were similar comments, and much worse, when Northern introduced the 195s on enthusiast forums but I travelled extensively on them at the time and never heard a single negative comment from real passengers but plenty of positive ones. The ride is inferior. it is a bit more lively and there is more side to side swaying but it is only really noticeable if you are the sort of person who is deliberately looking for differences, like I was last week when I did the same journey on both types of stock.

They were definitely not enthusiasts.

 

[chiltern trev]

I was one of the very unlucky people who went on the train that failed, and it was my first time on the 777s! I saw the problem from a distance and thought there was an accident that had nothing to do with the actual train, however, it did. I actually heard a person who was trying to fix the door say "the wifi for the doors doesn't seem to be working". I'm not too familiar with the technology but I'm sure the wifi doesn't have anything to do with the train's systems unless the wifi sends signals to the main system to notify the personnel there is a problem, to which there was a problem with it itself. Anyways, a man, who was trying to help the staff figure out how to get the doors working again, happened to explain to someone that a person using a mobility scooter had happened to (as far as I believe) have had a reflective surface on the scooter, thus the train doors caught on the scooter and tripped the door circuit, causing the door to go into a malfunction. The doors had kept on flashing red on the sides while malfunctioning as if they were in the process of locking. The people apparently tried to move the train out of the platform since they couldn't do anything with the doors and the train went to an immediate emergency stop. This happened twice in the same minute. Soon after they fixed the doors by probably resetting the train's systems and the train pulled out of the station out of service. Later I got another service to Liverpool then that one was cancelled at Sandhills due to it being late because of what happened, and then eventually got back by another train.

Seeing this thread I'm surprised this has happened quite often since the launch as I thought that problem would be rare but it isn't. I hope this explains some more of why the train's doors keep on failing

Other than that, my first impressions of the train are positive. The acceleration/deceleration is noticeably faster and has a much more pleasant interior environment.

Re the WiFi. Is it actually wireless or is it really that all the doors and other devices and all controllers sit on one, or more, physical ethernet cables?

 

[stuu]

No criticism levelled at the MerseyRail situation just a global comment that any new train is best put into service with passengers using it as soon as possible to shake down all the issues that testing just can't simulate.

Do passengers get a discount when it goes wrong? Would they be warned that it may go wrong? I would guess they would get even more complaints for putting stock into service that wasn't adequately tested, it's sure fire way to get terrible publicity

 

[Wezz]

They definitely sound like they were enthusiasts. They were similar comments, and much worse, when Northern introduced the 195s on enthusiast forums but I travelled extensively on them at the time and never heard a single negative comment from real passengers but plenty of positive ones. The ride is inferior. it is a bit more lively and there is more side to side swaying but it is only really noticeable if you are the sort of person who is deliberately looking for differences, like I was last week when I did the same journey on both types of stock.

Tbh it's very hard to be worse than tbe 195's, I think the 777's are really good and are a great replacement for the 507/508's.

 

[D821]

Re the WiFi. Is it actually wireless or is it really that all the doors and other devices and all controllers sit on one, or more, physical ethernet cables?

I can't imagine safety critical systems like doors operating over wifi, I'd imagine the train would have a bus system for pinging information about.
I'm no expert, just my guess.

 

[Kite159]

The passengers will be thankful for the 777s come summer when the hot weather comes. The 507/508s do get quite hot, made worse with the windows not opening fully.

 

[py_megapixel]

Tbh it's very hard to be worse than tbe 195's

Is it really?

The 195s aren't perfect, not by a long shot. It's daft, for example, that they were ordered in 2016 and still weren't equipped for level boarding. But it's either a worn-out, uncomfortable train from the 1980s which screeches and groans its way into the station (not to mention the deafening racket when it starts off again), or a modern 195, which - despite its arguable flaws - still has more space, nicer lighting, tables, high-backed seats and air-conditioning (and much better soundproofing!).

Which is closer to presenting the average passenger the image we want them to have of rail travel in 2023?

I can't imagine safety critical systems like doors operating over wifi, I'd imagine the train would have a bus system for pinging information about.
I'm no expert, just my guess.

The Stadler press release about these (here) is in German, but it lists this as a feature:

Fahrzeug-Ferndiagnose zur Unterstützung der zustandsorientierten Instandhaltung

which translates (roughly) to "Remote vehicle diagnostics to support maintenance specific to the conditions".

This suggests there may be some sort of Wi-Fi system for diagnostic purposes. If that is the case, it is probably what was being referred to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The passengers will be thankful for the 777s come summer when the hot weather comes. The 507/508s do get quite hot, made worse with the windows not opening fully.

Quite. The limiters did stem the loss of seat bases which were chucked out by the minutes, but they were like ovens.

On another note I have seen a comparison between the mockup seats and the real ones, and it looks like the protruding headrest problem has been resolved. I think by way of a thicker back cushion.

 

[prod_pep]

Actually, the window catches were only fitted to the 507/8s when they were refurbished and received the new seating, not before, so they had nothing to do with stemming the removal of seat bases. The new seat cushions are much harder to remove than the previous ones. Not that it ever was anything like as frequent an occurrence as alleged, once again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually, the window catches were only fitted to the 507/8s when they were refurbished and received the new seating, not before, so they had nothing to do with stemming the removal of seat bases. The new seat cushions are much harder to remove than the previous ones. Not that it ever was anything like as frequent an occurrence as alleged, once again.

Certainly in the 80s there was a nice line of them along the sides of Kirkdale cuttings!

 

[Killingworth]

049 on Kirkby diagram today

018 also out on training. Just arrived Sandhills from Hillside

EDIT: 1445 Just arrived into Southport and 004 and 010 are in the sidings on the Liverpool side of the station approach

By coincidence I thought I'd seen that at Sandhills as I passed going by the other way at 11.15. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Sam 76]

Had my first ride on a 777 this evening, and interestingly three passengers sat behind me, all of whom were travelling separately, gave it a very poor appraisal indeed. Chief criticisms were the hard seating, the inferior ride quality compared with the old trains and the lack of natural ventilation (the third point admittedly rather moot). One went so far as to say she "hated them" and much preferred the older trains. The ride quality is without a doubt a step back from the 507/8s, noticeably rougher and bouncier, and there were already rattles audible in my carriage.

I must admit I don’t find the ride quality to be that dramatic a change either way but I would say the passenger experience in the tunnels is worlds apart it’s so much more pleasant and quiet