Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[william.martin]

Had my first ride on a 777 this evening, and interestingly three passengers sat behind me, all of whom were travelling separately, gave it a very poor appraisal indeed. Chief criticisms were the hard seating, the inferior ride quality compared with the old trains and the lack of natural ventilation (the third point admittedly rather moot). One went so far as to say she "hated them" and much preferred the older trains. The ride quality is without a doubt a step back from the 507/8s, noticeably rougher and bouncier, and there were already rattles audible in my carriage.

Could be worse, you could have the 196's like myself, I would recommend recieving back surgery ASAP after crossing abbey forgate JCT.

 

[gray1404]

When are they coming to the Southport line?

 

[Liverpool 507]

When are they coming to the Southport line?

Last to be introduced on the network. Southport needs infrastructure mods to accept them in multiple.

Some stations have platform extension works complete or ongoing including Ainsdale, Hightown, Waterloo etc

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Last to be introduced on the network. Southport needs infrastructure mods to accept them in multiple.

Some stations have platform extension works complete or ongoing including Ainsdale, Hightown, Waterloo etc

Say for example that the platform extension works take too long to finish and all (or most) drivers are trained on 777s, could we see some running in single on Southport, or does that line only get double units with the 507/8s?

 

[Parjon]

Or at least with "staff" testing doors at station calls during FFM.
Thrashing new trains up and down without stopping and opening the doors is a fudged way of accepting new trains IMHO. The FFM of the GWR 800s by FOC drivers proved that, and no criticism levelled at the FOC drivers at all. .

They did stop and test doors, but auto open rather than button press

 

[Merseyrailfan]

let my guess 049 on today.

I feel 507s/508s softer seat quality better 777s hard seats. Also Ironically 777s bounce like pacers. The doors close and open too much. 507s/508 do bounce not as much as this. However 777s are quieter and with WiFi it modernising Merseyrail fleet. Also the addition of air conditioning is good for hot summer months. Frankly, I believe they left introducing them too late, that’s why they have door faults. In conclusion, A train that trying, but the unions made them sit in sidings.

To be fair Class 507s/508s only had 2+2 seating because of referbishment in 2002 to 2005. It was 2+3 Seating.

 

[507020]

I feel 507s/508s softer seat quality better 777s hard seats. Also Ironically 777s bounce like pacers. The doors close and open too much. 507s/508 do bounce not as much as this. However 777s are quieter and with WiFi it modernising Merseyrail fleet. Also the addition of air conditioning is good for hot summer months. Frankly, I believe they left introducing them too late, that’s why they have door faults. In conclusion, A train that trying, but the unions made them sit in sidings.

First we’re accusing them of being trams, they may borrow some features from the Metrolink, but there’s ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they can be described as riding like Pacers!

It may be correct to describe the ride as bouncy. Some swaying motion is certainly noticeable, but this is also true of the 507/508s. I had another ride from Central to Kirkby and back to Sandhills yesterday when it wasn’t so busy and I am very impressed with all attributes of the ride quality.

Comparisons should be made with the CAF and Hitachi stock of a similar age, which the 777s excel over and fair enough comparing them with the high quality but obsolete fleet they directly replace, but “Pacers” and “trams” just detracts from the amount of hard work which has been put and is still going into their introduction.

 

[Grumpy Git]

To be fair Class 507s/508s only had 2+2 seating because of referbishment in 2002 to 2005. It was 2+3 Seating.

When did the 507/508 Merseyrail stock ever have 3+2 seating?

 

[prod_pep]

When did the 507/508 Merseyrail stock ever have 3+2 seating?

Prior to the 2002-05 refurbishment.

 

[cjbirkett]

When did the 507/508 Merseyrail stock ever have 3+2 seating?

From new until early 2000s. The cushions were an odd green/beige check colour. I preferred the old seats as they made the coaches seem more open but suspect I’ll be in a minority of 1 on that one.

The refurbishments certainly kept the 507/8s to a good standard but I’ll be very sad to see them go.

To keep this relevant to 777s, I was reasonably impressed on my first experience yesterday, though it was only from Central to Kirkdale. I think the door opening education may be biggest thing to overcome. Moorfields to Sandhills has some jointed and I didn’t feel it was particularly worse than the old guard. Mind you having also been brought up on 142s does alter any expectations of comfort I suppose. They are certainly way above Pacer and 331 level.A ride back from Southport on board 507 008 felt significantly rougher (it’s still mega loud at one end btw, but used to ride much smoother)

Lots of comments about enthusiast/normals perceived 195/331 comfort levels. Well, i will only give one persons perspective which is my Mum who, having been a 142 commuter for many, many years feels that the 331s “lurch about dangerously and make very loud, unannounced bangs that are really Unnerving. She is very happy that the majority of our trains have gone back to 319s as at least “they feel attached to the track”. She is definitely no enthusiast!

 

[Parjon]

From new until early 2000s. The cushions were an odd green/beige check colour.

Covers were replaced with a stylish yellow/black tartan before the seats went.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly the same pattern but a different colour if I recall.

 

[MattRat]

The problem with judging ride quality is that the tracks are terrible on Merseyrail. Some sections are fine, others seem to be from the industrial revolution. How on earth can you determine ride quality with rails like that?

 

[Vespa]

On 777 today, my first ride initial impression very smooth and quick, noticed a background hum, I assume this is either the air conditioning or motors, on way to Kirkby now.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On 777 today, my first ride initial impression very smooth and quick, noticed a background hum, I assume this is either the air conditioning or motors, on way to Kirkby now.

This just goes to show how subjective/unreliable (delete as appropriate) individual assessments of things like ride quality are.

I've yet to sample the 777s but I'm not the harshest of critics for such things. I'll be having a trip over to try them out in the next few weeks, maybe once a few more are in use each day. If they ride anything at all like Pacers (or trams) I'll be consuming my headwear on the train home to Yorkshire!

 

[Grumpy Git]

Covers were replaced with a stylish yellow/black tartan before the seats went.

Wow, I guess my first ride on the Northern Line would have been approx. 1990 and I have absolutely no recollection of the 3+2 or this seat pattern whatsoever!

 

[Vespa]

This just goes to show how subjective/unreliable (delete as appropriate) individual assessments of things like ride quality are.

I've yet to sample the 777s but I'm not the harshest of critics for such things. I'll be having a trip over to try them out in the next few weeks, maybe once a few more are in use each day. If they ride anything at all like Pacers (or trams) I'll be consuming my headwear on the train home to Yorkshire!

They don't bounce like pacers, I will say because of the quicker acceration you do notice the expansion gaps in the rail tracks more.

 

[315801]

The livery on the 507 & 508 units was the yellow and white with black and grey stripes which to me certainly suited them as it brightened them up.

I think that the livery at the time of that photo coupled with the seating and lighting they have now would have been a much better combination than how they look now.

Anyway as for the 777s in keeping with the thread title, I have to confess that I have yet to actually ride 1 but I am sure I will do at some point although I am not in any rush to do so.

 

[Vespa]

Just had a power surge turning signals to red, they've just taken the 777 out of service just in case it might be related, think they're resetting it.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just had a power surge turning signals to red, they've just taken the 777 out of service just in case it might be related, think they're resetting it.

Are you saying the regenerative breaking might've caused a power surge?
I assume something else must've happened for this to not come up during testing

 

[Vespa]

Are you saying the regenerative breaking might've caused a power surge?
I assume something else must've happened for this to not come up during testing

Not much information to go on at the moment, the 777 is taken off service as precaution going back to Liverpool by bus.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are you saying the regenerative breaking might've caused a power surge?
I assume something else must've happened for this to not come up during testing

I don't think they were in any way trying to diagnose the problem.

If something like that happens, better to be on the side of caution until the likely cause is identified. New equipment is often likely to be a factor in such things, you only have to look at the class 442 issues back in the day. Testing won't throw up every combination of factors, so there's always the possibility that something new will be thrown up under specific circumstances.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Testing won't throw up every combination of factors, so there's always the possibility that something new will be thrown up under specific circumstances.

If we assume this was that type of problem, would this be the first fault that can't be attributed to passenger running?
Since most faults have been doors being annoying and doors weren't tested on individual release and mock use.

 

[Vespa]

At least I got two trips in to evaluate the train until the unfortunate incident detraining at Sandhills.

Arrived at Moorfield station by bus, a very long queue has already formed to catch the bus home, Central station had staffs redirecting customers using the Northern line.

 

[Merseyrailfan]

First we’re accusing them of being trams, they may borrow some features from the Metrolink, but there’s ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they can be described as riding like Pacers!

It may be correct to describe the ride as bouncy. Some swaying motion is certainly noticeable, but this is also true of the 507/508s. I had another ride from Central to Kirkby and back to Sandhills yesterday when it wasn’t so busy and I am very impressed with all attributes of the ride quality.

Comparisons should be made with the CAF and Hitachi stock of a similar age, which the 777s excel over and fair enough comparing them with the high quality but obsolete fleet they directly replace, but “Pacers” and “trams” just detracts from the amount of hard work which has been put and is still going into their introduction.

Mabye Pacer comment was bit harsh. There was definitely less bounce on 507s/508s.

 

[Kite159]

I guess for the ride, the proof will be when they enter service on the Chester line as trains do get up some speed on the section south of Hooton, especially if they are not calling at Capenhurst.

 

[D821]

Having smaller wheels than the 507 & 508s might be the reason for the difference in ride.

 

[OutdoorM]

Having smaller wheels than the 507 & 508s might be the reason for the difference in ride.

Are they quieter in the Tunnels?

It will be interesting to hear a difference on the loop. Winder if it will reduce wear as well?

 

[Vespa]

Are they quieter in the Tunnels?

It will be interesting to hear a difference on the loop. Winder if it will reduce wear as well?

They seem quieter in Moorfields and Central tunnels.

 

[Merseyrailfan]

I know this is irrelevant to 777s, but on 507s and 508s, there is sound that it like a diesel engine at low speeds? Did any one else notice?