Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

[8A Rail]

The 3rd rail is being shortened at Kirkby to before the platform starts to avoid any possibility of 3rd rail return current getting beyond the IBJ at Kirkby once the buffet stop is removed by a unit overshooting whilst on electric traction

Forgive me for asking but what is 'IBJ'? May be I know but currently my grey cells not working at moment.

So regardless, the option is been taken away for Class 777/0's to operate beyond Fazakerley to Kirkby Station even in case of 'emergency' or 'unforeseen' operational issues? So if that happens then passengers will have to travel from Fazakerley (& rtn) but bus replacement rather than from Kirkby to Headbolt Lane (& rtn). This sounds like the railway going backwards but then I am not surprised given the present climate.

 

[Skie]

Insulated Block Joint.

 

[Wezz]

Forgive me for asking but what is 'IBJ'? May be I know but currently my grey cells not working at moment.

So regardless, the option is been taken away for Class 777/0's to operate beyond Fazakerley to Kirkby Station even in case of 'emergency' or 'unforeseen' operational issues? So if that happens then passengers will have to travel from Fazakerley (& rtn) but bus replacement rather than from Kirkby to Headbolt Lane (& rtn). This sounds like the railway going backwards but then I am not surprised given the present climate.

So the railway is going backwards by ensuring everyone is kept safe?

Makes sense...

 

[prod_pep]

507014 and 508141 will form the 2355 Liverpool Central - Kirkby service tonight, reportedly the last ever 507/8-operated service to Kirkby.

 

[Scouse77]

The third rail is only being removed along the platform length at Kirkby....not all the way to Fazakerley.

Any train issue that involves issues reaching Kirkby would be the same if the third rail was there or not. Passengers would just catch the next train or be bussed as happens now.

 

[mcnw35282]

Is it being removed along the whole of the platform length? I passed by Kirkby station yesterday, and it'd only been removed to about half the platform length...but the end was angled down as if it was a termination piece.

 

[MattRat]

Is it being removed along the whole of the platform length? I passed by Kirkby station yesterday, and it'd only been removed to about half the platform length...but the end was angled down as if it was a termination piece.

The third rail only ever reached halfway, being stopped by the buffers originally.

 

[samrammstein]

For reference, this was the 3rd rail arrangement on the 1st of June 2023. Has it been cut back from this?

 

[mcnw35282]

I’m starting to doubt myself now tbh! Haha! I’m going to visit family in Kirkby tonight, will will drop by and check…

 

[LPJOHN]

It has been cut back.

 

[8A Rail]

Just a general question, given the third rail arrives part way up at Kirkby Station now, I assume it is remains live from Fazakerley or has been de-electrified somewhere? If not why keep the third rail in after (say) the M57 motorway bridge when no Class 777/0's will be able to go pass Fazakerley anyway! I find it rather odd and don't make sense unfortunately. Hopefully some of better informed / more knowledgeable members will explain.

 

[L401CJF]

Just a general question, given the third rail arrives part way up at Kirkby Station now, I assume it is remains live from Fazakerley or has been de-electrified somewhere? If not why keep the third rail in after (say) the M57 motorway bridge when no Class 777/0's will be able to go pass Fazakerley anyway! I find it rather odd and don't make sense unfortunately. Hopefully some of better informed / more knowledgeable members will explain.

From what has been said previously, its only being removed in the platform so there is no risk of return current passing through the running rails on the extended side - which isnt set up for use by electric trains. By removing the third rail in the platform, no shoes will be in contact with the juice when the train crosses into the new section thus no return current will be fed into the running rails on the wrong side.

Edit - im no expert, and dont know the full technicalities!

 

[mcnw35282]

It has been cut back.

Thank goodness! I thought I was losing what's left of my marbles!

 

[Wezz]

Just a general question, given the third rail arrives part way up at Kirkby Station now, I assume it is remains live from Fazakerley or has been de-electrified somewhere? If not why keep the third rail in after (say) the M57 motorway bridge when no Class 777/0's will be able to go pass Fazakerley anyway! I find it rather odd and don't make sense unfortunately. Hopefully some of better informed / more knowledgeable members will explain.

3rd rail remains live from Fazakerley, Trains will switch back to 3rd rail mode at Kirkby when travelling towards Liverpool.

 

[DJH1971]

Any more news of the disposal of 507012 and 508115?

 

[8A Rail]

3rd rail remains live from Fazakerley, Trains will switch back to 3rd rail mode at Kirkby when travelling towards Liverpool.

Since I posted my original thought / question, I have now noted two things at Kirkby, the 3rd rail remains more or less half way up the platform and also seen a new platform sign to remind drivers 'check emu mode' (on Class 777's). Clearly that Class 777's will use 3rd rail power to / from Kirkby after all.

 

[mcnw35282]

Is each bogey powered separately...or do only 1 set of shoes need to be in contact with the live rail to provide traction to the whole train?

 

[315801]

On the class 507 / 508 units there is a buss line that connects the shoe on 1 motor coach to the other shoe on the other motor coach.

This means that a service running as a single 3 coach set will still start from a station stop as long as 1 of the shoes is in contact with the rail.

The big problem they have is that there are potentially several places on the merseyrail network where they can become gapped ( no shoes in contact with the 3rd rail ).

1 such incident happened at Rock Ferry a few years ago ( cannot remember the exact year ) where 507033 got gapped as it was leaving in the Liverpool direction. I was informed by a member of staff who was on duty that day that the driver of 507033 had informed him that some idiots on board had pressed the alarm and as a result he brought the unit to a stand but only realised what had happened when he tried to take power and the unit wouldn't move.

The driver on the following service which I boarded was asked if he would couple his unit to 507033 and the 2 run in service from Rock Ferry and seperate at Birkenhead Central which was agreed but because 507033 was by that point so late on it's journeys, the passengers had to be detrained from 507033 and board the unit I was on.

033 then ran light to James Street platform 2 where it reversed and returned to service starring from there with its 1st pickup stop being Hamilton Square.

Originally they 507 and 508 units had both bogies on the motor coaches fitted with shoes but this often gave rough riding when the last shoe would disconnect from s 3rd rail causing arcing and in 1992 or 1993 in preparation for the start of the Chester & Ellesmere Port services they were converted to the buss line resulting in the removal of the shoes at the cab ends.

 

[Poyntz]

22 50 Sun Birkenhead EMUD Sims. Lays over various places en route & changes headcode.

 

[_toommm_]

22 50 Sun Birkenhead EMUD Sims. Lays over various places en route & changes headcode.

A very weird route indeed - not sure if the other scrap moves took this route with this level of splitting:

5Q64 - Birkenhead North E.M.U.D. to Shrewsbury: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K66034/2023-07-09/detailed
5Q76 - Shrewsbury to Craven Arms DGL: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05698/2023-07-10/detailed
5Q78 -Craven Arms DGL to Newport Docks (Simsgroup): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05697/2023-07-10/detailed

 

[SuperLuke2334]

A very weird route indeed - not sure if the other scrap moves took this route with this level of splitting:

5Q64 - Birkenhead North E.M.U.D. to Shrewsbury: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K66034/2023-07-09/detailed
5Q76 - Shrewsbury to Craven Arms DGL: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05698/2023-07-10/detailed
5Q78 -Craven Arms DGL to Newport Docks (Simsgroup): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05697/2023-07-10/detailed

It's the usual path, just seems like they've split it into bits this time!

 

[Snow1964]

I guess they have had a good innings, can't believe it is 38.5 years ago (December 1984) when 508s finished in SW London.

(and before anyone comments, I know most of the 43 intermediate cars are still running in 455s).

 

[Class37Colas]

Are the units being dragged to Newport on Monday most likely 507012 and 508115?

 

[Sam 76]

Yes as no others have been withdrawn I believe

 

[Poyntz]

5Q64 now on the run.

 

[The_Train]

5Q64 now on the run.

Was it confirmed to be.....

507012 and 508115?

?

 

[DJH1971]

Was it confirmed to be.....

?

It was

 

[The_Train]

It was

Thank you

 

[DJH1971]

It's been reported the next units going for scrap will be 508127 and 507005 in 2 weeks, followed by 508138 and 507009 a couple of weeks later. 508126 and 507026 will be going 2 weeks after that.

There is going to be a delivery of 3 777's every 3/4 weeks from early August.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It's been reported the next units going for scrap will be 508127 and 507005 in 2 weeks, followed by 508138 and 507009 a couple of weeks later. 508126 and 507026 will be going 2 weeks after that.

There is going to be a delivery of 3 777's every 3/4 weeks from early August.

Sounds like a plan!