Merseyrail most punctual' rail network in UK for second year running

[Eccles1983]

Not true. Are you familiar with the track layout at Hunts Cross, for example?

Yep.

As well as that of Southport, Chester, bidston, and many other places. Are you?

It's very much like a tram service albeit without street running. It's in no way similar to any of the TOC's near it. The amount of conflict points is very very small, and has far less choke points. Much like metrolink and heavy rail in the navigation road area.

It's not a bad thing, it means that it's a very simple and effective service.

 

[Djgr]

M-to-go is interesting but I'm not really convinced by it - it seems to do the jobs of being a ticket office and a convenience store both not exceptionally well. I think somewhere like Liverpool Central I'd be better served by a bank of TVMs (or even better implementing TfL style contactless) and a quality convenience store like a M&S Food...though that said there's a Sainsbury's Local straight outside!

That said, it might do well at some of the quieter stations where there isn't any kind of shopping facility nearby - those being the stations where they haven't done it. Maghull probably works, though - it's a very sprawling town with the centre a long way from either station.

M-to-go only generates marginal extra non ticket sales, but because they adopt the WHSmith approach of jacking up prices it probably adds net revenue to the bottom line.

 

[Skie]

Don’t forget that the Serco/Nedrail award on Merseyrail was for a 25 year term. They’ve had a reason to stick around and invest long term in the network, unlike on the Northern franchise where it was only a few years award for an enormous bit of railway that trips over lots of other operators.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don’t forget that the Serco/Nedrail award on Merseyrail was for a 25 year term. They’ve had a reason to stick around and invest long term in the network, unlike on the Northern franchise where it was only a few years award for an enormous bit of railway that trips over lots of other operators.

Though they're not really investing per-se, Merseytravel is.

 

[vlad]

M-to-go is interesting but I'm not really convinced by it - it seems to do the jobs of being a ticket office and a convenience store both not exceptionally well....

I'm not sure I'm convinced by M-to-go either. I've been in the queue at Liverpool South Parkway to buy a ticket whilst everyone in front of me has been buying food. They could at least have an express checkout (1 item or less ).

 

[bramling]

M-to-go is interesting but I'm not really convinced by it - it seems to do the jobs of being a ticket office and a convenience store both not exceptionally well. I think somewhere like Liverpool Central I'd be better served by a bank of TVMs (or even better implementing TfL style contactless) and a quality convenience store like a M&S Food...though that said there's a Sainsbury's Local straight outside!

That said, it might do well at some of the quieter stations where there isn't any kind of shopping facility nearby - those being the stations where they haven't done it. Maghull probably works, though - it's a very sprawling town with the centre a long way from either station.

Must admit we were glad of the shop at Moorfields late at night last week after having been out exploring a disused tunnel all evening and jumping on the last train back to the hotel!

But, seriously, notwithstanding the issues raised the concept seems to be pretty popular, so they must be getting something right.

 

[Skie]

The shops had a bit of a weak start simply due to the prices being typical railway station extortion rather than competitive with their neighbours. They’ve fixed that now for the most part, so they’re no longer competing for the WH Smiths crown of overpricing.

 

[jamesst]

I'm not sure I'm convinced by M-to-go either. I've been in the queue at Liverpool South Parkway to buy a ticket whilst everyone in front of me has been buying food. They could at least have an express checkout (1 item or less ).

Word on the grapevine that the only m2go that will be around in years to come is Liverpool South Parkway, changes to come!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Word on the grapevine that the only m2go that will be around in years to come is Liverpool South Parkway, changes to come!

You'd think as a major interchange South Parkway could support a Tesco Express or similar. I was surprised by the lack of facilities (shopping and toilet) there to be honest.

 

[S&CLER]

You'd think as a major interchange South Parkway could support a Tesco Express or similar. I was surprised by the lack of facilities (shopping and toilet) there to be honest.

It's better than it used to be when it opened, but still a huge station with minimalist facilities. The self-cleaning loos are OK.
At least the Southport MtoGo backs on to the Northern platforms 4 to 6, so shouldn't be affected by the possible need to extend the Merseyrail platforms 1 to 3 into the concourse to take 8-car 777s. Southport station was a cheapskate 1970s development anyway, so losing a bit of concourse is not a great issue. The café closed years ago.
This is all getting a bit away from punctuality, isn't it?,

 

[BloominMan]

Word on the grapevine that the only m2go that will be around in years to come is Liverpool South Parkway, changes to come!

That's correct

2 and a half more years and they're gone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's correct

2 and a half more years and they're gone.

To be replaced by what, destaffing and TVMs/contactless to pay for the retention of guards, perchance? (This has long been my prediction).

 

[BloominMan]

To be replaced by what, destaffing and TVMs/contactless to pay for the retention of guards, perchance? (This has long been my prediction).

They're not going to be replaced, that's the current stance apparently. Every m2go was operating at a loss apart from Southport station.

The guards were offered a small deal before the end of the year, with the door controls but ASLEF have demanded it's either the driver OR the guard to operate the doors. Not shared.

So with the current setup of the new 777s you can see what's going to happen. They're setup for DOO. Problem is, many of the drivers have refused to operate the doors on the 777s.

On the destaffing front, a massive chunk of their workforce operate on temporary full time contracts. Which are extended and extended dependant on the company needs.

As you'd expect, 90 days notice can easily be dished out to a huge number of the workforce at any time, potentially filling the posts with redundant guards.

Though apparently some guards are to be retained - but they will not be called guards. More along the lines of customer service.

 

[razor89]

The guards were offered a small deal before the end of the year, with the door controls but ASLEF have demanded it's either the driver OR the guard to operate the doors. Not shared.

ASLEF have demanded no such thing. The version of despatch agreed with RMT is currently with ORR for their approval.

with the current setup of the new 777s you can see what's going to happen. They're setup for DOO. Problem is, many of the drivers have refused to operate the doors on the 777s.

Just mess room talk this. There have been no outright refusals from any drivers to work DOO passenger trains as, quite simply, none have been asked to!

On the destaffing front, a massive chunk of their workforce operate on temporary full time contracts. Which are extended and extended dependant on the company needs.

As you'd expect, 90 days notice can easily be dished out to a huge number of the workforce at any time, potentially filling the posts with redundant guards.

They've been extended once, due to the delay in getting the guards deal agreed with RMT. Once it is, most if not all will be transferred onto permanent contracts. There will be no destaffing of stations until 2028 at the earliest as it's a concession requirement. There will continue to be a guard on every train.

apparently some guards are to be retained - but they will not be called guards. More along the lines of customer service.

All guards will be retained, their job title will however be changed as you say.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what will happen to the Mtogo shops if there is to be no destaffing? Convert back to regular booking offices?

 

[jamesst]

So what will happen to the Mtogo shops if there is to be no destaffing? Convert back to regular booking offices?

Pretty much, although theres some rumour of Liverpool Centrals m2go shop becoming an m&s food, not sure how that would work in relation to the ticket office.

 

[BloominMan]

ASLEF have demanded no such thing. The version of despatch agreed with RMT is currently with ORR for their approval.

-> I see an agreement in principle has been made with the ORR, regarding the proposed version of despatch for the new 777s.

This ruling will still eventually leave the driver with the final despatch responsibility. Which is the main issue for the drivers. Good news so far for the guard/train manager though.



Just mess room talk this. There have been no outright refusals from any drivers to work DOO passenger trains as, quite simply, none have been asked to!

-> *Officially* True. Plenty will work DOO, but plenty don't want to. Many of them fear they'll be lumbered with it anyway.

The drivers are still baulking at the proposition of Sunday becoming part of the working week. Which saves Merseyrail thousands per man. So Merseyrail's management aren't on their xmas card lists at the minute.


They've been extended once, due to the delay in getting the guards deal agreed with RMT. Once it is, most if not all will be transferred onto permanent contracts. There will be no destaffing of stations until 2028 at the earliest as it's a concession requirement. There will continue to be a guard on every train.



All guards will be retained, their job title will however be changed as you say.

-> The not so recently discussed (not confirmed) salary for the new train managers was nearly on par with working in a supermarket. Which is drastically lower than the current temporary guards rate. Nobody seems to know what is going on with that. That's another worry. This coincidentally falls in line with the removal/alteration of safety critical duties and a fresh new contract with the new job title.

I've replied above in bold format.

I honestly just hope Merseyrail do the right thing. Instead of employing profitability maximisation.

Apologies to the OP for the off topic post -

 

[jamesst]

I've replied above in bold format.

I honestly just hope Merseyrail do the right thing. Instead of employing profitability maximisation.

Apologies to the OP for the off topic post -

You're broadly right. Only thing is with the 4 day week, Aslef actually want it, Merseyrail dont! Lots of drivers are actually in favour of it.

 

[L401CJF]

Interesting the posts about the m to go shops, the one at Hooton Station is used as a local convenience store by the local residents as its the only shop nearby. There are only a handful of houses though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting the posts about the m to go shops, the one at Hooton Station is used as a local convenience store by the local residents as its the only shop nearby. There are only a handful of houses though.

If it's viable as a convenience store, I'd imagine they may well be happy to lease some space in the station out to the operator of one. But yeah, Hooton is in the middle of nowhere, a classic junction station that only exists because of the junction (e.g. a less rural Dyfi Junction) and would probably never have been built (or would have succumbed to Beeching) otherwise.

Bidston is probably the other Merseyrail example of such a station. If you wanted to build a station to serve Bidston (the place) it'd be about a kilometre-and-a-bit south.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Pretty much, although theres some rumour of Liverpool Centrals m2go shop becoming an m&s food, not sure how that would work in relation to the ticket office.

Buy one (ticket), get one free?

 

[S&CLER]

If it's viable as a convenience store, I'd imagine they may well be happy to lease some space in the station out to the operator of one. But yeah, Hooton is in the middle of nowhere, a classic junction station that only exists because of the junction (e.g. a less rural Dyfi Junction) and would probably never have been built (or would have succumbed to Beeching) otherwise.

Bidston is probably the other Merseyrail example of such a station. If you wanted to build a station to serve Bidston (the place) it'd be about a kilometre-and-a-bit south.

I think there is housing development under way on the "Roften" site near Hooton (Royal Ordnance Factory 10), which may increase the local population considerably. I saw ground being cleared last time I walked from Hooton to West Kirby. It probably qualifies as a "brownfield" site.

 

[L401CJF]

I think there is housing development under way on the "Roften" site near Hooton (Royal Ordnance Factory 10), which may increase the local population considerably. I saw ground being cleared last time I walked from Hooton to West Kirby. It probably qualifies as a "brownfield" site.

A very big development, houses have been flying up and seems to go back a fair way from the main road.

Don't forget although a station that wouldn't exist if it wasn't a junction , Hooton sees a lot of park and ride users driving from Willaston and Neston. Many residents in Neston prefer to drive and use Hooton Station rather than the infrequent borderlands line so it does get quite busy, although bar the locals and the odd driver of the 272bus popping in for a coffee I've never actually seen people buy anything other than tickets at the m to go shop. As said, the big development next door could well change that, or at least provide some sort of cause for a retail let.

 

[jamesst]

Sadly the m2go shops on the out stations (not underground) including Hooton are due to close imminently.

 

[TheSel]

Meanwhile, back on topic (this isn't really supposed to be about MtoGo shops!) ...

Merseyrail's punctuality figures suffered a hit last night (18 Feb 2020).

The 2151 Hunts Cross - Southport failed at Seaforth and Litherland.




Fitters were summoned, and eventually got it going (out of service), but not until the four following services (nominally each quarter of an hour behind the other) were at the stations immediately in the rear: i.e. the 2206 ex Hunts Cross was sat at Bootle New Strand, the 2221 ex Hunts Cross was at Oriel Road, the 2236 was at Bankhall, and the 2251 was at Sandhills. Quite a queue!




Eventually, the road clear, the 2223 ex Central (2206 off Hunts Cross) got to Seaforth & Litherland 41 late, and all its passengers except those for Southport were detrained to await the next in the queue. This train then went non-stop (but in service) to Southport, arriving 2340 (itself still 31 minutes late) in order to form the 2318 Southport - Liverpool Central (i.e. last train), which left at 2342, and was still 20 late into Central.

To be fair, Control did a good job of minimising disruption with their decision to run the first, most heavily delayed train, non-stop to Southport in service, and ensuring that queueing trains were held in stations, rather than "in the middle of nowhere".

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does sound like a very well-done piece of work there. This could have been a stranding horror-story (particularly with the trains without toilets at a time of day when many have been in the pub), but it wasn't because of sensible decisions all round.