Metrolink M5000 Fleet Status

[sjm77]

[The original thread had been closed so hope this is allowed]
Is there any updated on the 27 new Metrolink vehicles? Originally deliveries were scheduled to start last February, however we were told by TfGM that deliveries were delayed until September 2020. Obviously then COVID happened which I am sure has disrupted things, but I see no new information about expected delivery dates.

 

[WatcherZero]

As of 18th September due to begin arriving during October.

 

[geoffk]

As of 18th September due to begin arriving during October.

Do we know if they will be identical to the 3001 - 3120 series?

 

[py_megapixel]

The announcement of these was quite a while ago wasn't it, I'd almost forgotten about them!

Great to see more capacity coming to Metrolink. Also great to see that they haven't insisted on this ludicrous competitive tender process[*] for fleet expansion and instead appear to have just ordered more of the same very reliable, well-liked and well-thought-out design.

[*] I don't consider it to be ludicrious when it's an entire new fleet being ordered, but when an operator has to go through it because they want additional capacity and can't just buy more of the same because of beaurocratic policies it is pretty ludicrous.

Do we know if they will be identical to the 3001 - 3120 series?

TfGM press release suggests they will have 206 seats which is the same as the rest of the fleet as far as I'm aware; it's hard to see how else they could differ while still remaining compatible with the other vehicles.

 

[LOL The Irony]

it's hard to see how else they could differ while still remaining compatible with the other vehicles.

Croydon mods?

 

[py_megapixel]

Croydon mods?

What are those?

 

[LOL The Irony]

What are those?

These (From the RAIB final report into Croydon)

...the use of modern technology to intervene when trams approach hazardous features too fast, or when drivers lose awareness of the driving task. ...Work needs to be done to reduce the extent of injuries caused to passengers in serious tram accidents, and to make it easier for them to escape.

Which translates into;

• technology, such as automatic braking and systems to monitor driver alertness

• improving the strength of doors and windows

 

[Domh245]

These (From the RAIB final report into Croydon)

Which translates into;

Firstly, they're only recommendations rather than requirements.
Secondly, those modifications don't need to prevent interoperability - the vigilance devices in Croydon are seat-shakers AIUI, and any automatic braking system only needs to trigger an emergency brake application in a conventional manner (equivalent of dumping the brake pipe/breaking train continuity wire) for it to work on both trams. Strengthened doors and windows can be as simple as using a different type of glass in the windows/and doors or even worse case a strengthened frame that fits into the same sized aperture.

 

[Nym]

And any enhancements from RAIB recommendations (in the process of being mandated by the ORR) will need to be retrofitted anyway.

For example, Croydon seems to be the first doing all of this and to my knowledge is retrofitting;

• Guardian (Alertness Monitoring)
• PPOS (Physical Prevention of Over Speeding)
• iTram (Stolen from buses)
• Disaster Lighting

And a fair few other things, not related to "Post Sandilands"

 

[markymark2000]

Do we know if they will be identical to the 3001 - 3120 series?

According to the article from a 2 years ago when they were first ordered,

The new trams will be the same M5000 model as the existing fleet, each with capacity for 206 people and with a maximum speed of 50mph.

Transport bosses sign £72m deal to buy 27 new trams

The new trams will provide 4,800 extra spaces and will be used to run more ‘double’ trams on the busiest lines

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[507 001]

There will be a few minor differences to the existing fleet but nothing major.
We haven’t been told exactly what has changed but the highlights so far appear to be;

-revocable door closing. At present when you press door close in the cab there’s nothing you can do until they’re shut. If they become obstructed then the automatic system will attempt to close them three times beforegiving up, at which point you can intervene. The new ones will allow you to cancel the closing procedure apparently.
-Different TMS box in the cab. Touch screen.
-Changes to in cab lighting
-An additional staff access footstep below doors 1 and 7. Climbing up from the ballast with the present arrangement has led to many split pairs of trousers...

The door mods are apparently to be rolled out across the fleet.

There will be no Sandilands mods yet. We have been told today that the existing fleet is to be fitted with vigilance, and we have a trial of a speedo/line speed reminding device used in Tenerife. This is apparently quite good and will probably be rolled out pending completion of the trial.
I’m not sure if there’ll be changes to the windows to prevent them falling out when broken.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Wonder why no trams were built double length? The Birmingham and Nottingham ones are.

 

[py_megapixel]

Wonder why no trams were built double length? The Birmingham and Nottingham ones are.

Well... what would the point be of doing that, given that 2-section vehicles in multiple has been the norm ever since the system opened? If it ain't broke don't fix it, in my opinion.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Wonder why no trams were built double length? The Birmingham and Nottingham ones are.

Well... what would the point be of doing that, given that 2-section vehicles in multiple has been the norm ever since the system opened? If it ain't broke don't fix it, in my opinion.

They probably will be when it's time to replace the M5000's, but that's in the far future.

 

[507 001]

Wonder why no trams were built double length? The Birmingham and Nottingham ones are.

Multiple reasons.

Less flexibility.
Depots configured for current vehicle length.
Worth noting that the Birmingham and Nottingham teams have a lower top speed due to shorter sections too, although that wouldn’t necessarily be a problem for a double length M5000.

 

[rebmcr]

The Marple tram-train is/was planned to use units matching the length of 2×M5000.

 

[sjm77]

Manchester is not unique. The M5000s are based on a Cologne tram model, and the Cologne tram network is full of 2 small tram units joined together!

 

[TC60054]

Worth noting that the Birmingham and Nottingham teams have a lower top speed due to shorter sections too, although that wouldn’t necessarily be a problem for a double length M5000.

The length of the vehicles and sections used in Nottingham and Birmingham make no difference to the top speed. Remember until the other year Nottingham regularly ran their Incentros at 80kmh (50mph) - the speeds were dropped because the Citadis had a top speed of 70kmh (43mph) - and I think a similar scenario in Birmingham.

 

[507 001]

The length of the vehicles and sections used in Nottingham and Birmingham make no difference to the top speed. Remember until the other year Nottingham regularly ran their Incentros at 80kmh (50mph) - the speeds were dropped because the Citadis had a top speed of 70kmh (43mph) - and I think a similar scenario in Birmingham.

It is true that the Incentros were something of an anomaly, but generally shorter sectioned trams have lower top speeds. Hence Bombardier offering both Flexity and Flexity swift (generally with longer sections) models. This is what we were told when the M5000s were delivered anyway.

 

[WatcherZero]

Covid has delayed completion by a few more weeks but now the 1st in the order is due to leave the factory on the 10th November and arrive in Manchester the 14th.

 

[Jozhua]

I saw on a Facebook group for them that 3120 has arrived, so technically the last number tram. I don't know if that means they have all arrived yet. I may have rode on one, but I'm not aware if I've done so!

I think the new generation of trams probably around 2030 will be double length, but I think they'll probably operate both M5000's and the new trams at the same time. The oldest of the M5000's are about 10 years now I believe, with the youngest being just weeks old, so there's probably a going to be some overlap.

Even if there are no extensions planned, post 2020, passenger numbers are going to almost certainly continue to grow. The section of tramway in between Cornbrook and St Peter's Square is supposed to be one of the busiest light rail sections in the world - I wouldn't be suprised! Cornbrook sees trams pulling in literally as the other one leaves. Squeezing more passengers into one double length unit will probably become more vital, so getting rid of those two cabs and couplings will be needed on new models I'm sure.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I saw on a Facebook group for them that 3120 has arrived, so technically the last number tram. I don't know if that means they have all arrived yet. I may have rode on one, but I'm not aware if I've done so!

3120 is already in service. Has been since October 2016.

 

[Jozhua]

TGFM News - New trams set to boost capacity and social distancing
https://news.tfgm.com/news/new-trams-set-to-boost-capacity-and-social-distancing

The first of 27 new Metrolink trams is set to arrive next week, boosting capacity on the network and providing more space for social distancing.
Once testing and commissioning is complete, the first tram will be put into service before Christmas, with further trams set to arrive every 3-4 weeks after that.

The new trams are being funded by the Transforming Cities Fund, and were first announced as part of the Congestion Deal (March 2018), the city-region’s approach for tackling congestion by improving public transport and providing a genuine alternative to driving.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Social distancing will be not over, but less in measure, by the time 10-20 of these new trams enter service, if we base things on one or two entering service this year and the remainder next year. Will these new units allow doubles on every service, or very nearly so?

 

[507 001]

Not every service, no. The plan was to have all Bury and Altrincham sets doubled, and increase the number of doubles on the Rochdale-East Dids services. There was a plan for a 6 minute service on the Airport line at one point too, but I’m not sure if we’d have enough to do all of the above. Obviously the pandemic has meant a lot of plans have changed.

 

[sjm77]

Doubling all Altrincham trams cannot come soon enough for social distancing. The stupid thing is it can be done now from the existing fleet but isn't always despite trams only running every 10 minutes instead of every 6 minutes. The kick in the teeth is that some airport trams are running as doubled despite trams running more frequently than at anytime ever before (every 10 minutes rather than every 12). From a resource planning point of view this makes no sense and is completely ridiculous as far as I am concerned.

 

[507 001]

Doubling all Altrincham trams cannot come soon enough for social distancing. The stupid thing is it can be done now from the existing fleet but isn't always despite trams only running every 10 minutes instead of every 6 minutes. The kick in the teeth is that some airport trams are running as doubled despite trams running more frequently than at anytime ever before (every 10 minutes rather than every 12). From a resource planning point of view this makes no sense and is completely ridiculous as far as I am concerned.

To be fair it is intended that all Alti sets are doubles, and I can’t remember the last time I saw a single to be honest.
There are some vehicle availability issues at the moment so it’s possible that you’ll get the occasional single.

 

[sjm77]

To be fair it is intended that all Alti sets are doubles, and I can’t remember the last time I saw a single to be honest.
There are some vehicle availability issues at the moment so it’s possible that you’ll get the occasional single.

Well availability issues do happen from time to time. However from my window I just witnessed an inbound tram from Alty running as a single and full with several people standing, whilst an airport service runs out of the city centre as a double. This is a bad allocation of resources surely! I know that not all sets can run to Alty but around 70 can, and only 16 would e required to run as doubles every 10 minutes!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is 3121 on its way? Somebody mentioned the 10th, which is today.

 

[TC60054]

Is 3121 on its way? Somebody mentioned the 10th, which is today.

I've heard Saturday (14th), like the majority of the original deliveries.