Metrolink Oldham line

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Central Park was supposed to be open by Spring 2011, from the original information given in the press release, but matters seem somewhat delayed.

Can someone on the forum post the up to date position on this matter.

 

[WestCoast]

Central Park was supposed to be open by Spring 2011, from the original information given in the press release, but matters seem somewhat delayed.

Can someone on the forum post the up to date position on this matter.

I've predicted late August for the first stage (Trafford Bar to Chorlton and Victoria to Central Park).

However, the best coverage and knowledge can be found on the SkyscraperCity forum - link to Metrolink Extension Thread. There are regular photo updates and discussion.

 

[radamfi]

Why were the platforms on the Oldham Loop demolished but the Bury and Altrincham lines retained the old platforms?

 

[WestCoast]

Why were the platforms on the Oldham Loop demolished but the Bury and Altrincham lines retained the old platforms?

I'd assume this was part of a new network policy for the extensions. Make everything look fresh and modern, and make it last for longer without renewal and refurbishment.

The oldest part of the network opened back in 1992 was converted very quickly, under one year and dare I say it, "on the cheap". The network has closed over the past few years at times to renew track and refurbish the rather tired looking original stations. The Bury line stations have not yet had a facelift and they don't look very inviting in my opinion.

 

[WatcherZero]

They also now seem to favour at grade pedestrian track crossings so many platforms are being rebuilt in a staggered formation or as islands. The oldham platforms would have required resurfacing anyway to get perfect level boarding and minimal gaps.

 

[WestCoast]

They also now seem to favour at grade pedestrian track crossings so many platforms are being rebuilt in a staggered formation or as islands. The oldham platforms would have required resurfacing anyway to get perfect level boarding and minimal gaps.

Yes, I've noticed this too. It feels a lot more tram-like rather than "metro". I can't decide whether that is a good thing, it's cheaper and quicker without bridges/underpasses, but I just hope there aren't many accidents. I know trams are going slow near the stops though and they seem to manage fine in the city centre.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I thought that this morning, I would check the "Future Metrolink" part of the TfGM website, noting the "wi-fi" problems encountered by the M5000 Flexity Swift trams in the area of Media City UK, to see what TfGM say about sectional openings on the Oldham and Rochdale Metrolink line, but the information as shown still reads as follows:-

CENTRAL PARK.........Spring 2011
OLDHAM MUMPS.......Autumn 2011
ROCHDALE...............Spring 2012

 

[umontu]

According to SSC's forum the South Manchester line is VERY close to opening. Including graffiti at one stop already! http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=866944&page=449

The central park section seems to be almost ready, skim back through the pages and you'll see some shots at there of trams.

I also think I raised the questionability of "Spring" being a set date a while back.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43722

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst extra bus services were arranged by TfGM after the closing of the heavy rail line to Oldham and beyond, these bus services could not possibly match the former rail timings.

It will be very interesting to see the Metrolink passenger loading figures when the line is open to Oldham.

 

[radamfi]

Whilst extra bus services were arranged by TfGM after the closing of the heavy rail line to Oldham and beyond, these bus services could not possibly match the former rail timings.

It will be very interesting to see the Metrolink passenger loading figures when the line is open to Oldham.

Compared to the bus provision made when the Bury and Altrincham lines were converted, the Oldham line got very little. Express buses were provided to Bury and Altrincham whereas Oldham had to make do with its existing services on the 82/83/180/184, whilst very frequent, stop at all stops. Shaw to Milnrow fare a little better with the doubling of the 181/182 to every 15 minutes, but these are stopping buses too, and were provided at the expense of a cut in the frequency of route 24 to half hourly. A token X82 limited stop service is provided in peak hours to Milnrow.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When the heavy rail line was operational, Shaw and Crompton had services terminate there. I suppose there would be no chance of Manchester Victoria to Shaw trams in addition to the ones going through to Rochdale. Was it was because of the single line from Shaw and Crompton to Rochdale?

Was there any reason why the Shaw trains were short-terminated there in the days of heavy rail, as Oldham Mumps had a Manchester facing bay platform, which admittedly had not seen service for many years.

 

[radamfi]

Half hourly was the best possible frequency between Rochdale and Shaw as it was single track throughout that section. Trains in Shaw had to wait for trains to arrive from Rochdale and vice versa. Before around 1990, the frequency of the full Oldham Loop was only hourly in each direction, with an hourly Yorkshire train making a roughly half hourly service between Rochdale and Manchester. I think there was also a short working to Shaw every hour too making a half hourly service between Manchester and Shaw. So the service we knew until 2008 was double that.

 

[The Snap]

They also now seem to favour at grade pedestrian track crossings so many platforms are being rebuilt in a staggered formation or as islands. The oldham platforms would have required resurfacing anyway to get perfect level boarding and minimal gaps.

Not true. Only one of the stops between Victoria and Oldham Mumps has staggered platforms (Freehold), and the only island is Oldham Mumps Temporary stop...

 

[Nym]

Have the decided whats happening on the Oldham Mumps perminant station yet? Please oh please say it's going to be staying grade seperated from Mumps Roundabout?

 

[The Snap]

Have the decided whats happening on the Oldham Mumps perminant station yet? Please oh please say it's going to be staying grade seperated from Mumps Roundabout?

Yes. Mumps temporary stop will be positioned about 200 yards from the old station with access from the old pedestrian overbridge. Mumps permanent stop will be positioned at one side of the roundabout at the Union Street entrance, along which the line will travel from King Street and Westwood. The line will then quickly swing to the left and follow the existing track bed up towards Derker. Mumps roundabout (according to the current revision of the drawing) will cease to exist as a roundabout and become a rather complex looking mish-mass of roads.

I would post a shot of the official drawing but I think that would be unwise on my part...

 

[Nym]

Does the mismash of roads allow a decent flow on the through A62 route without it crashing into a roundabout at 50mph?

Guessing it looks nothing like this:

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/oldham-rochdale-line/oldham-mumps.pdf

Considering what is being changed here one thinks it might be an idea to take the opertunity to grade seperate Mumps Roundabout?

Or install the ever popular in Greater Manchester, Hamburger Junction?

Examples Include: A63/A1079, M602 J3 (M602/A57/A5063), A57/A576?, A56/A57M (Upper section), A56/A5063/A5081

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Hamburger_Junction

 

[The Snap]

Does the mismash of roads allow a decent flow on the through A62 route without it crashing into a roundabout at 50mph?

Guessing it looks nothing like this:

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/oldham-rochdale-line/oldham-mumps.pdf

That is different to the drawing I have seen, so which is correct I’m not sure. That’s not too far away from the drawing mind; what I saw suggested the alignment follows ‘Mumps’ running parallel with ‘Wallshaw Place’ until it reaches ‘Bell Street’ then picks up the original alignment (avoiding the centre of the roundabout). I'm looking for the drawing as we speak so I may well get back to you on this...

Considering what is being changed here one thinks it might be an idea to take the opertunity to grade seperate Mumps Roundabout?

Or install the ever popular in Greater Manchester, Hamburger Junction?

Examples Include: A63/A1079, M602 J3 (M602/A57/A5063), A57/A576?, A56/A57M (Upper section), A56/A5063/A5081

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Hamburger_Junction

I couldn't comment about this as I don't know this part of the job patricianly well. This whole Mumps thing is Phase 3B, and I'm 3A .

 

[WatcherZero]

Does the mismash of roads allow a decent flow on the through A62 route without it crashing into a roundabout at 50mph?

Guessing it looks nothing like this:

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/oldham-rochdale-line/oldham-mumps.pdf

Considering what is being changed here one thinks it might be an idea to take the opertunity to grade seperate Mumps Roundabout?

Or install the ever popular in Greater Manchester, Hamburger Junction?

Examples Include: A63/A1079, M602 J3 (M602/A57/A5063), A57/A576?, A56/A57M (Upper section), A56/A5063/A5081

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Hamburger_Junction

That diagram is the original plan where they would have kept the viaduct over the roundabout in 3A and partially demolished it to build an offramp in 3B with an Oldham Mumps high level station.

They since decided to demolish the entire viaduct in 3a and alter the road layout so as to avoid having to close the then working line for viaduct alterations in 3b.

This is what it looks like now, roads remodelled and a low level station. The grey area surrounded by red is the 3B layout and the temporary track across the road junction would be closed. The stop is surrounded by bus bays as an interchange along with a healthy amount of car parking.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I couldn't comment about this as I don't know this part of the job patricianly well. This whole Mumps thing is Phase 3B, and I'm 3A .

Rich, I know that your current remit on the Oldham line does not cover the later part of the route, but as a Site Engineer, you may have been fortunate to have seen ground stability results for the whole route.

The question asked by my wife who has an interest in geology of this part of the area, is were any ground deformation problems in the area between Shaw and Milnrow.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only one of the stops between Victoria and Oldham Mumps has staggered platforms (Freehold)

Rich, can I ask a question of you as a site engineer. Through the former Dean Lane station, there is going to be a similar situation as currently found at Navigation Road on the line to Altrincham. There will be one line of heavy rail serving the waste depot with its container traffic to the depot just on the other side of the bridge at Reliance Street and there will be a parallel single Metrolink line that will serve the single platform.

How will the single line section on the Metrolink cope with the frequency requirements of two-way running before the single track Metrolink section and then after it. Will there be any need for Metrolink drivers to know if any container train is coming out of the refuse depot?

 

[The Snap]

Rich, I know that your current remit on the Oldham line does not cover the later part of the route, but as a Site Engineer, you may have been fortunate to have seen ground stability results for the whole route.

The question asked by my wife who has an interest in geology of this part of the area, is were any ground deformation problems in the area between Shaw and Milnrow.

I am afraid I couldn't answer that question as I don't have anything to do with OR3, as you have noted. I will, however, have a look at our DMS to see what I can find...

Rich, can I ask a question of you as a site engineer. Through the former Dean Lane station, there is going to be a similar situation as currently found at Navigation Road on the line to Altrincham. There will be one line of heavy rail serving the waste depot with its container traffic to the depot just on the other side of the bridge at Reliance Street and there will be a parallel single Metrolink line that will serve the single platform.

How will the single line section on the Metrolink cope with the frequency requirements of two-way running before the single track Metrolink section and then after it. Will there be any need for Metrolink drivers to know if any container train is coming out of the refuse depot?

Although I don't know the detail, I understand that the design of the track around Newton Heath & Moston stop is capable of handling the traffic frequency. Remember that at peak, trams are every 6 minutes in each direction, so the timetable will probably allow a tram going in each direction into the stop every 3 minutes or so. Don't take that as gospel though...

With regards to tram drivers being informed of freight movements, I couldn't honestly tell you. Although, I know for a fact that the two infrastructures are to remain completely separate and the clearances between the two will be such that trams and trains pass one another without interference. So I would suggest the answer to your question is no. But again, that is purely speculation on my part.

Sorry I can't give you more solid answers.

 

[tbtc]

Remember that at peak, trams are every 6 minutes in each direction

Seeing this I realised I'd not seen any frequency guide for the Metrolink extensions - does anyone know them?

Presumably every six/twelve minutes on most lines, so that they can slot between the existing routes (of a similar frequency) without clashes?

 

[The Snap]

Seeing this I realised I'd not seen any frequency guide for the Metrolink extensions - does anyone know them?

Presumably every six/twelve minutes on most lines, so that they can slot between the existing routes (of a similar frequency) without clashes?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45181

People in that thread seem to have got the information from somewhere...

HTH .

 

[WatcherZero]

Seeing this I realised I'd not seen any frequency guide for the Metrolink extensions - does anyone know them?

Presumably every six/twelve minutes on most lines, so that they can slot between the existing routes (of a similar frequency) without clashes?

 

[tbtc]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=45181

People in that thread seem to have got the information from somewhere...

HTH .

Cheers both - appreciated

 

[northernrail]

Its a very short line, Victoria-Central Park.
Will it be 2, 3 or 4 trams running it and does anyone know times between stations?

 

[WatcherZero]

Because its so short the theory is that it will be combined with the first stage of the South Manchester line which would also be fairly short for a St Werburghs-Central Park service at least until more lines open. Word today from the engineers is South Manchester could open for the 21st June (last day of spring) with just the St Werburgh turnback points requiring tuning and driver training, still some track to lay for Central park however, notably over the fin back bridge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Mumps roundabout (according to the current revision of the drawing) will cease to exist as a roundabout and become a rather complex looking mish-mass of roads.

How many major roads, as a result of changes made so far, will now actually be meeting at this complex? The Oldham Way expressway is one of these roads which was built to enable traffic to by-pass the inner parts of the town centre.

Have traffic management proposals reached any further stages which will deliver a safe, but an acceptable road traffic-flow, resolution to this question?

 

[Nym]

From the looks of the Diagram, the old A62 will meet the new A62 further West at traffic lights, then a second set of lights, with (if it's layed out as seen) will introduce some decent priorites to the routes, where Lees Road Splits.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am afraid I couldn't answer that question as I don't have anything to do with OR3, as you have noted. I will, however, have a look at our DMS to see what I can find

Were you able to find out any of that information on the groundworks and on the matter of ground deformation in that area?

 

[ajb]

Its a very short line, Victoria-Central Park.
Will it be 2, 3 or 4 trams running it and does anyone know times between stations?

I think the idea behind opening such a short section of line instead of waiting until the section to Oldham is completed is that right next to the station at Central Park they are in they appear to have completed the external building of both a new GMP HQ and a new GMP Northern division HQ, so I think they want the Met up and running to serve these two new offices.