Metrolink tram speculation, including possible extension to Stockport

[AlastairFraser]

I'm trying very hard to see how making the Atherton line for trams would work.

Other parts of Manchester are more deserving of Metrolink first.

Not trams, tram trains. It would suit the frequent stopping pattern better, better acceleration and more stations at the Salford end. Better fare integration with buses and the rest of the TfGM-controlled public transport system.
Agree a pure tram would be a bad idea for any pre-existing GM suburban rail lines, but E Didsbury to Stockport/potentially Offerton makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gathursty]

Not trams, tram trains. It would suit the frequent stopping pattern better, better acceleration and more stations at the Salford end. Better fare integration with buses and the rest of the TfGM-controlled public transport system.
Agree a pure tram would be a bad idea for any pre-existing GM suburban rail lines, but E Didsbury to Stockport/potentially Offerton makes a lot of sense.

I've never seen a tram-train. Is it that thing in Rotherham?

 

[HSTEd]

I've never seen a tram-train. Is it that thing in Rotherham?

They are used there yes, but are quite extensively used in the German speaking world.

 

[daodao]

What use have London/Mcr South commuter services got to going through to the side. Picc is a decent terminus for these flows. The airport sure and 1 per hour through from each direction south/east of Picc (Sheffield/Lincoln/Cleethorpes/Crewe/Stoke-on-Trent/Brum), but the majority of passengers on the others almost always are going to Mcr City Centre or nearby areas which can be accessed by walking/tram/bus. That project would be more about making regional services across Mcr more frequent and connecting North of Mcr services from Vic/North WCML/the Chat Moss to the aforementioned South of Mcr destinations.

Agree a pure tram would be a bad idea for any pre-existing GM suburban rail lines,

It is very useful for local rail services to penetrate the city centre, rather than terminate at its edge (i.e. at Piccadilly). Hence the desirability of converting the ex-GC lines to SE Manchester to Metrolink, so that they can join up with existing tram services terminating at Piccadilly (from Bury/Altrincham), and also benefit from an increased frequency. It would revitalise these lines as well as being more economical. In the case of the line to Rose Hill via Reddish, it would also enable electrification and tick the box of extending Metrolink to Stockport borough. The routeing from Ashburys to Piccadilly will need to fit in with HS2 phase 2b if it is built, and while I suggested above that this link could be "on street", ideally it would be segregated (but without any need for tunnelling).

However, it is operationally better for longer distance rail services (regional/inter-city) from outwith Greater Manchester entering it from the south (and from Standedge via Guide Bridge) to terminate in the main train shed at Piccadilly rather than congest the Castlefield line, apart from the Sheffield-Liverpool service.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I've never seen a tram-train. Is it that thing in Rotherham?

Well, yes, that and what the Welsh Valleys are getting. Suitable for those kind of lines, defo suitable for interurban rail in GM.

It is very useful for local rail services to penetrate the city centre, rather than terminate at its edge (i.e. at Piccadilly). Hence the desirability of converting the ex-GC lines to SE Manchester to Metrolink, so that they can join up with existing tram services terminating at Piccadilly (from Bury/Altrincham), and also benefit from an increased frequency. It would revitalise these lines as well as being more economical. In the case of the line to Rose Hill via Reddish, it would also enable electrification and tick the box of extending Metrolink to Stockport borough. The routeing from Ashburys to Piccadilly will need to fit in with HS2 phase 2b if it is built, and while I suggested above that this link could be "on street", ideally it would be segregated (but without any need for tunnelling).

However, it is operationally better for longer distance rail services (regional/inter-city) from outwith Greater Manchester entering it from the south (and from Standedge via Guide Bridge) to terminate in the main train shed at Piccadilly rather than congest the Castlefield line, apart from the Sheffield-Liverpool service.

How are you going to get anything from the Preston/Blackburn/Burnley/Bradfurt/Wigan direction towards Picc without Castlefield? Magic carpet ?!
You'd rather get an outlying part of Stockport borough and spend hundreds of millions on 4 miles of tram when you could spend less plugging it right into the middle of Stockport proper? Plus, by only using trams, you would shut a huge part of the only Sheffield to Mcr route from mainline electrification - you can't have 25kv pure tram or 750V and 25kV dual systems, you have to choose.

 

[HSTEd]

you can't have 25kv pure tram or 750V and 25kV dual systems, you have to choose.

Huge sums of money were already expended developing convertible 25kV/750v overhead wiring that could be used for either without massive reconstruction.

And tram trains can be dual voltage.

Also the primary Sheffield-Manchester route is via Hazel Grove and has been since the chord opened......
And if the line via Reddish North is de-facto converted for tram train operation there is still a reserve route via Guide Bridge.

 

[daodao]

How are you going to get anything from the Preston/Blackburn/Burnley/Bradford/Wigan direction towards Picc without Castlefield?

You did not read my post carefully; it stated:

However, it is operationally better for longer distance rail services (regional/inter-city) from outwith Greater Manchester entering it from the south (and from Standedge via Guide Bridge) to terminate in the main train shed at Piccadilly rather than congest the Castlefield line, apart from the Sheffield-Liverpool service.

I was referring to trains entering Greater Manchester via Stockport or Styal (i.e. from the south) as well as from the Standedge line via Guide Bridge.

HSTEd has answered the other points you raised in response to my previous post.