pitdiver
Member
I am trying to find if there are anywhere the above timetables. In particular 1974-1975. Not necessarily full timetable but a summary of the services between Luton and Bedford.
thank You
thank You
And some at St Albans too.The longer distance inter city services generally called at both Luton and Bedford
On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.1974 was before electrification and the 'Bedpan' moniker.
The suburban DMU service was basically hourly off peak (St Pancras, fast to Radlett then all stations to Bedford). There was all 'all stations' local from St Pancras that terminated at Luton. The longer distance inter city services generally called at both Luton and Bedford, thus providing a second hourly service between Luton and Bedford.
There were quite a few variations on Saturdays and obviously 'rush hour' additionals that could take frequencies up to four per hour.
A typical sort of resource-hungry, un-memorable pattern of the period.
Hope this helps. I worked around that area at the time.
... because they were required to be tripcock fitted to work the "Widened Lines". There were possibly also platform length restrictions, I think a pair of 4 cars would have been too long.The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.
Thank you. It was indeed generally 'Elstree' first call.On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.
The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past. Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.
... because they were required to be tripcock fitted to work the "Widened Lines". There were possibly also platform length restrictions, I think a pair of 4 cars would have been too long.
Many class 31s were tripcock fitted from new:BIB - not sure that's right, because up to 1976 the GN also sent units down there and that included Cravens 105s, Class 31s which wouldn't have been tripcock fitted.
I've read that too, but did not include it in my previous post, because the Derby suburban units that were used from the Midland into Moorgate were also 64'. But the 57' length restriction definitely applied on the Hotel Curve up to the GN."Test runs to Moorgate had to be abandoned as their body lengths caused clearance problems in the tunnels."
Was there also a Sheffield which didn't call at St Albans, Luton and Bedford incidentally? One might guess it would have left on the hour if so, as the 'prime' service of the line and to give even-interval service to Leicester.On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.
... unlike 1981 as discussed above, with irregular departure times and stops. I'm wondering, come to think of it, whether the erratic IC timetable in 1981 was anything to do with engineering works for the electrification.The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past.
Indeed, such was the nature of peak augmentation and commonplace across the network in BR and even early-privatisation days.Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.
Well what do you do? If everyone wants to travel during the same brief period then you need to run more/longer trains during that period. I mean you could just not bother and compel most of them to drive instead, but that's no good. Or you could run lots of long trains all the time, and have them whizzing up and down with nobody on them all day, but that seems kind of pointless. It's a bit daft to call an operator down for very sensibly varying the level of service in accordance with the number of people wanting to use it.
Those class 116 suburban sets used on the Luton to Moorgate service, also were used on the Kentish Town to Barking line.On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.
The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past. Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.
Mind you, regarding the peak, is that not just the nature of the peak (in the pre-Covid days when peak was necessary, at least?) You have to increase the service in the peak, but there might not be the paths available to double the off-peak service (by keeping the basic off-peak timetable and inserting additional services) so it may be necessary to increase the off-peak offering by a smaller amount (for example half-hourly to 20-minutely). The nature of this will mean inevitably that some peak trains will leave at different times to off-peak, and also, pathing constraints might force 'odd times' (like say 1743 rather than 1745) during the peak.Thank you. It was indeed generally 'Elstree' first call.
I didn't mention St Albans because the OP made no reference to the place in their query about 'Luton to Bedford'.
The peaks were very different from the off-peak with quite a long 'transitions'.
Ah right, of course. The sets used to overnight at Bedford, and travel ECS to Luton to start. I recall waiting for a train at Bedford Midland Road early one morning and one of these came rolling through from the carriage sidings (where the station car park is now) displaying 'Newton-Le-Willows' on the destination blind!Those class 116 suburban sets used on the Luton to Moorgate service, also were used on the Kentish Town to Barking line.
Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.Ah right, of course. The sets used to overnight at Bedford, and travel ECS to Luton to start. I recall waiting for a train at Bedford Midland Road early one morning and one of these came rolling through from the carriage sidings (where the station car park is now) displaying 'Newton-Le-Willows' on the destination blind!
These Moorgate trains were first dieselised with Birmingham RC&W type 2 diesels (later Class 26 or 27?); more exotically MetroVick Co-Bo diesel were tried for a short period before being banished to Barrow.
Sadly I never managed a Co-Bo. But all is not lost - D5705 survived and is being restored at the East Lancs Rly, so maybe a chance in my lifetime..... Recall seeing them at Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, but never had a chance to ride behind. The Type 26 & 27 were transferred very young to Scotland. Rode behind them plenty of times on various lines and a number are preserved. Last time I rode was on the Bo'ness line.S
Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.
At least you managed to see them in service. Especially with the short service the Co Bo locos had.Sadly I never managed a Co-Bo. But all is not lost - D5705 survived and is being restored at the East Lancs Rly, so maybe a chance in my lifetime..... Recall seeing them at Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, but never had a chance to ride behind. The Type 26 & 27 were transferred very young to Scotland. Rode behind them plenty of times on various lines and a number are preserved. Last time I rode was on the Bo'ness line.
I only saw one on Thomas the Tank Engine.S
Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.
On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.
Yes, the hourly semi-fasts from St. Pancras alternated between Derby and Nottingham and were xx:30 from London calling St. Albans, Luton and Bedford, also (necessarily) Wellingborough, Kettering and Market Harbourough. As nw1 asks, there was also an hourly Sheffield fast, normally I think non-stop Leicester, though I couldn’t use it as it didn’t stop at Bedford and don’t know the times off St. Pancras, but probably on the hour. The Sheffields used the double island layout at Leicester to overtake the semis (which only got to Leicester a few minutes before the following fast, so didn’t provide much of a twice-hourly service for Leicester, they were very much for the intermediate stations), with the semi proceeding to the alternate destination (Nottingham/Derby) to the fast. Certainly for a while both the Nottingham and Derby fasts continued to Sheffield, and at least sometimes used a turnover locomotive at Nottingham to save running round and expedite things (Sheffield via Nottingham probably needing that to match times via Derby once the Corby route closed). I used these services quite a few times travelling north in the seventies and found the cross platform interchange at Leicester very useful. Midland Mainline did a similar thing when the 170s were introduced and I was commuting to Leicester for work, but it did seem prone to disruption. The overtaking seemed to get abandoned by East Midlands by the time the Meridians came in.Was there also a Sheffield which didn't call at St Albans, Luton and Bedford incidentally? One might guess it would have left on the hour if so, as the 'prime' service of the line and to give even-interval Yes, the hourly semi-fastsservice to Leicester.
I assume you were only interested in passenger services? Besides the passenger services there were various parcel and freight trains - I have access to the Freight WTT for 1975/76 at St Albans South signal box as we looked in detail at the mid-1970s services when setting up our more complex simulator several years ago.I am trying to find if there are anywhere the above timetables. In particular 1974-1975. Not necessarily full timetable but a summary of the services between Luton and Bedford.
thank You