Midland Mainline Sunday Service

[HamworthyGoods]

Initiative was the word used.

Hourly service to Matlock?

 

[vlad]

What I find annoying is how late Northbound EMT Derby-Chesterfield-Sheffield trains start.... a very large amount of people travel between those stations yet the first EMT from Derby to Sheffield is not until 10:52! Surely EMT could run an earlier northbound train starting from Derby using one of the trains that go from Etches Park depot to Sheffield on a Sunday morning.

You could always travel from Derby to Sheffield with XC - they start running over an hour earlier.

 

[DanTrain]

I would suggest that is a grossly unfair and unwarranted statement.

Ok maybe they were innovative at the start of the franchise, but they've done jack all since!

The GC HSTs don't count, they were forced to use them for the upgraded Thameslink timetable, and they're not used that much, especially when you still have rammed 222s going to London, whilst the HSTs sit idle!

This is indeed the case, we’ve seen years of them providing an ‘adequate’ service, with very little to get excited about. I wouldn’t say it’s bad per se, their use of stock is pretty decent goven their allocation, but I don’t recall an awful lot of initiative since soon after the start of the franchise.

 

[43096]

Ok maybe they were innovative at the start of the franchise, but they've done jack all since!

The GC HSTs don't count, they were forced to use them for the upgraded Thameslink timetable, and they're not used that much, especially when you still have rammed 222s going to London, whilst the HSTs sit idle!

So first you say they haven't been innovative, then when challenged admit they were at the start of the franchise, but "not since". Having a bit of a struggle to justify your statement, aren't you? Or just grinding an axe.

 

[43096]

This is indeed the case, we’ve seen years of them providing an ‘adequate’ service, with very little to get excited about. I wouldn’t say it’s bad per se, their use of stock is pretty decent goven their allocation, but I don’t recall an awful lot of initiative since soon after the start of the franchise.

You don't seem to know the meaning of the word "initiative". It is somewhat different to "innovation", though EMT have done both.

 

[DanTrain]

You don't seem to know the meaning of the word "initiative". It is somewhat different to "innovation", though EMT have done both.

No I’m perfectly clear on the meaning of the word, but since around 2010, EMT have shown very little of it. They’ve run a decent franchise, with good use of MMl stock to prop up local services, but when was the last time they really took some initiative to help passengers (this critisism does not exclusively apply to EMT btw)

 

[43074]

No I’m perfectly clear on the meaning of the word, but since around 2010, EMT have shown very little of it. They’ve run a decent franchise, with good use of MMl stock to prop up local services, but when was the last time they really took some initiative to help passengers (this critisism does not exclusively apply to EMT btw)

Over the last few years they've improved services between Nottingham, Newark and Lincoln, provided extra Sunday services between Nottingham and Grantham and Nottingham and Lincoln, run more Sunday Corby to London trains and faster Sheffield services as a consequence and taken on 4 extra 153s from GWR to try and help improve the reliability of local services with the stock shortage. They were shafted in May last year and there's overcrowding and shortforming on the local side but much of that is down to the cards they were handed at the start of the franchise more than anything. On the whole they get the basics right and run a pretty reliable service.

 

[tommy2215]

You could always travel from Derby to Sheffield with XC - they start running over an hour earlier.

I'm well aware of that but XC is not who are being discussed. Besides 09:44 is still pretty late for the first northbound service to Sheffield.

 

[43096]

No I’m perfectly clear on the meaning of the word, but since around 2010, EMT have shown very little of it. They’ve run a decent franchise, with good use of MMl stock to prop up local services, but when was the last time they really took some initiative to help passengers (this critisism does not exclusively apply to EMT btw)

So they run a decent franchise, but you’re not happy? Don’t get it.

 

[Iskra]

I didn't realize this was a courtroom - but luckily, you're on the internet if you want to hunt around.

Perhaps the afternoon/evening services are busier as there are actually more services - as others have noted on this thread, they start very late on Sundays.

But overall, it's consistently said that Sundays are the busiest days for inter-city services. Not passenger or station usage overall, but the mid-week volumes belong to short and medium distance commuting. If you look at long-distance weighted stations like Euston or Kings Cross, as opposed to Fenchurch Street or Marylebone, you'll see that weekends are just as busy - and with less spikes throughout the day.

It's a forum for sharing information. If you post stuff of questionable veracity, you can expect to be challenged. I'll let you rummage for the evidence to support your own assertion. Until it's provided, I'll continue to believe that what you posted is absolute tosh.

From my experience of working at a mainline station, I simply don't believe that Sundays are busy, instead people are crowded on to the fewer services later in the day. You are just saying that some people say Sunday is the busiest day, which is all very wishy washy.

 

[Iskra]

This is indeed the case, we’ve seen years of them providing an ‘adequate’ service, with very little to get excited about. I wouldn’t say it’s bad per se, their use of stock is pretty decent goven their allocation, but I don’t recall an awful lot of initiative since soon after the start of the franchise.

At the end of the day, the DFT hasn't asked them to do anything exciting, so any criticism should be levelled at the DFT, not EMT who have simply done what they were contracted to do.

What should EMT have done that they haven't?

 

[cactustwirly]

At the end of the day, the DFT hasn't asked them to do anything exciting, so any criticism should be levelled at the DFT, not EMT who have simply done what they were contracted to do.

What should EMT have done that they haven't?

I don't know, a decent Sunday service, with earlier start times than 1052.
On the GWML the earliest train from Swindon to Bristol is 0917!
Stop running overcrowded 222s when HSTs are sat idle.

 

[Iskra]

I don't know, a decent Sunday service, with earlier start times than 1052.
On the GWML the earliest train from Swindon to Bristol is 0917!
Stop running overcrowded 222s when HSTs are sat idle.

First and last trains are dictated by the DFT. Hopefully this will be addressed in the next franchise, as they have in other franchises that have been renewed recently.

I assume they don't do that just to annoy people. It's probably for maintenance or lack of drivers available on Sundays.

 

[cactustwirly]

First and last trains are dictated by the DFT. Hopefully this will be addressed in the next franchise, as they have in other franchises that have been renewed recently.

I assume they don't do that just to annoy people. It's probably for maintenance or lack of drivers available on Sundays.

It's not just a Sunday problem either!
During the week you have 4 car 222s running to Nottingham absolutely rammed, but there's 6 car HSTs which are barely used, and 3x 8 car HSTs sat idle at CW!

 

[PeterC]

It's a forum for sharing information. If you post stuff of questionable veracity, you can expect to be challenged. I'll let you rummage for the evidence to support your own assertion. Until it's provided, I'll continue to believe that what you posted is absolute tosh.

From my experience of working at a mainline station, I simply don't believe that Sundays are busy, instead people are crowded on to the fewer services later in the day. You are just saying that some people say Sunday is the busiest day, which is all very wishy washy.

I used to work at an arts centre. If we had a gig on a Sunday it would be like a morgue all day and then rammed from early evening onwards. Most of the shift was quiet but people unable to get in to the sell out gig would still quite reasonably say that it was busy. At the end of the day it is customer perception that counts.

 

[cle]

It's a forum for sharing information. If you post stuff of questionable veracity, you can expect to be challenged. I'll let you rummage for the evidence to support your own assertion. Until it's provided, I'll continue to believe that what you posted is absolute tosh.

From my experience of working at a mainline station, I simply don't believe that Sundays are busy, instead people are crowded on to the fewer services later in the day. You are just saying that some people say Sunday is the busiest day, which is all very wishy washy.

You’re free to think that what I posted is tosh, I’m equally free to hold zero value as to your opinion, and not care.

What you shared was anecdotal too. And a symptom of the exact issue (late TOC starts, customer perception of no trains) we are discussing - and so seemingly supporting the same point, ie under service and/or suppressed demand.

 

[Iskra]

You’re free to think that what I posted is tosh, I’m equally free to hold zero value as to your opinion, and not care.

What you shared was anecdotal too. And a symptom of the exact issue (late TOC starts, customer perception of no trains) we are discussing - and so seemingly supporting the same point, ie under service and/or suppressed demand.

No, yours is anecdotal. Mine was empirical.

 

[cactustwirly]

No, yours is anecdotal. Mine was empirical.

No yours was anecdotal as well!

 

[Iskra]

No yours was anecdotal as well!

Do you know what empirical means?

When you turn up at a station, Sunday after Sunday you are in a good position to observe.

Just because you were on a busy HST once or twice does not mean Sundays are busy. The reduced service and MML calling pattern makes it appear busy, when it is not busier than any other day of the week.

 

[cactustwirly]

Do you know what empirical means?

When you turn up at a station, Sunday after Sunday you are in a good position to observe.

Just because you were on a busy HST once or twice does not mean Sundays are busy. The reduced service and MML calling pattern makes it appear busy, when it is not busier than any other day of the week.

It's not once or twice it's literally every week!
What station are you observing from?

 

[cle]

From my experience of working at a mainline station, I simply don't believe that Sundays are busy

One unnamed station during unnamed times...one individual, qualitative perspective on busyness... personal recollection... could not be more anecdotal! Dictionary time, sirrah.

 

[70014IronDuke]

That's just a chicken-and-egg situation, the slower the journey, the more people either drive or go via Doncaster/Tamworth, and so the lower the loadings are and the slower EMT/National Rail feel they can make the service. It's not like the East Midlands magically has 50% less demand for London services on a Sunday compared to a Saturday!

Yes, sure - but as 43074 implies - maybe they only have two paths. Personally, I'd have thought they could have run the Sheffields fast Leicester - St Pancras (or with one stop, say LAP), but EMT clearly value the riders from Kettlingboro, and want to keep the service half hourly there.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, sure - but as 43074 implies - maybe they only have two paths. Personally, I'd have thought they could have run the Sheffields fast Leicester - St Pancras (or with one stop, say LAP), but EMT clearly value the riders from Kettlingboro, and want to keep the service half hourly there.

Probably because it's in EMTs FA to give those stations a half hourly service...

 

[DanTrain]

So they run a decent franchise, but you’re not happy? Don’t get it.

At the end of the day, the DFT hasn't asked them to do anything exciting, so any criticism should be levelled at the DFT, not EMT who have simply done what they were contracted to do.

What should EMT have done that they haven't?

It's just nice to see something new now and again, and even though @43074 made some points that I wasn't aware of, they haven't done all that much. Then again, this may well be a problem in the franchise structure rather than EMT per se, i.e. there's not incentive for EMT to innovate so as a private company why would they? On the other hand, Virgin Trains have always been quite innovative as a private company, but then again that's tailed off too in recent years, so hey ho!

 

[70014IronDuke]

Probably because it's in EMTs FA to give those stations a half hourly service...

Yup. Sorry for not thinking of that.