Midland Metro to increase Penalty Fares & reintroduce buy at stop

[bussnapperwm]

Proposed amendment to Metro penalty fares | Transport for West Midlands (tfwm.org.uk)

Proposed amendment to Metro penalty fares​

West Midlands Metro operates a penalty fare scheme. This means anyone travelling on the tram without a valid ticket could be liable to pay a penalty fare of £10.
Tickets will be sold at tram stops in the future. This is also called buy before you board. The current Penalty Fare is no longer a deterrent to prevent people travelling without a ticket.

Proposed changes to the penalty fare​

West Midlands Combined Authority (WMCA) submitted a proposal to change the penalty fare to £100. If you pay it within 14 days, it will be reduced to £50. This is under the Penalty Fare Act 1991, which was amended by The Midland Metro (Penalty Fares) Order 2019).

What do people think of this change?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems about the right level. I guess they will be laying the conductors off?

 

[bussnapperwm]

I'm 99% sure that some of the conductors are also drivers. I know they had advertised for "Driver Customer Service Representatives" which seems like a mix of both roles from the Job Description

 

[185143]

I think West Midlands Metro have much bigger issues at the moment than increasing Penalty Fares.

After all, no one will be boarding a WM Metro tram without buying a ticket any time soon...

Though on a more serious note, I've never really understood how PFs can work on a tram system where you buy onboard?

 

[scrapy]

Though on a more serious note, I've never really understood how PFs can work on a tram system where you buy onboard?

I would be interested to know if they ever actually issued one? Possibly for an adult travelling on a child ticket?

 

[Ianno87]

I would be interested to know if they ever actually issued one? Possibly for an adult travelling on a child ticket?

Or riding past the stop you bought a ticket to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or refusing to pay?

 

[the sniper]

Or refusing to pay?

If they're refusing to pay a few quid, they're not going to entertain the idea of a penalty fare...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're refusing to pay a few quid, they're not going to entertain the idea of a penalty fare...

Quite possible that they would tell one conductor to, er, go away, but have less success with a team of burly RPIs.

 

[Kite159]

Guess it will be like the Nottingham Trams & Metrolink where you buy before you board but without a member of staff on the tram to check tickets, so at times of the day will be a free for all with passengers chancing a couple stops without buying knowing the odds of getting caught by a RPI are remote?

 

[MCR247]

Guess it will be like the Nottingham Trams & Metrolink where you buy before you board but without a member of staff on the tram to check tickets, so at times of the day will be a free for all with passengers chancing a couple stops without buying knowing the odds of getting caught by a RPI are remote?

You can also buy on the app in Nottingham now, so I imagine some do that as they see inspectors boarding

 

[Sprinter107]

When the Midland Metro first opened it was buy before you board, with machines at all.of the stops. It was soon decided to put conductors on the trams, and do away with the machines within a very short time, so i assume there was a high level of fare evasion. The conductors on those trams are really very good at what they do, ive watched them work, and even on a busy tram, they seem to get to most people, plus its a deterrent against crime.
I have a feeling once the conductors are taken off, and machines are once again at the stops, fare evasion and vandalism will increase.

 

[LowLevel]

When the Midland Metro first opened it was buy before you board, with machines at all.of the stops. It was soon decided to put conductors on the trams, and do away with the machines within a very short time, so i assume there was a high level of fare evasion. The conductors on those trams are really very good at what they do, ive watched them work, and even on a busy tram, they seem to get to most people, plus its a deterrent against crime.
I have a feeling once the conductors are taken off, and machines are once again at the stops, fare evasion and vandalism will increase.

I seem to recall that at the time cash was much more prevalent and the machines were constantly being broken into, so they took them out of use.

 

[Sprinter107]

I seem to recall that at the time cash was much more prevalent and the machines were constantly being broken into, so they took them out of use.

Yes, i think the machines only took cash fares. Its a long time ago. I still don't think the new machines will be as efficient at revenue collection as the present conductors. They really are efficient at collecting the fares.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, i think the machines only took cash fares. Its a long time ago. I still don't think the new machines will be as efficient at revenue collection as the present conductors. They really are efficient at collecting the fares.

What proportion of passengers pay by the journey as opposed to having some sort of pass/season ticket, l wonder.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What proportion of passengers pay by the journey as opposed to having some sort of pass/season ticket, l wonder.

I suspect when they move to contactless (as they surely will) this will effectively render conductors redundant.

 

[mattdickinson]

I suspect when they move to contactless (as they surely will) this will effectively render conductors redundant.

The WMCA plan is to introduce off-tram validators to touch in an out.

The procurement of suppliers to deliver at stop validators and ticket vending machines and the back-office systems that enabled contactless payment capping and off-tram ‘tap on-tap off’ validation for all ticket types including Swift Go

 

[Kite159]

I suspect when they move to contactless (as they surely will) this will effectively render conductors redundant.

Agreed, unless they go down an Edinburgh trams style "buy before you board" with a conductor nearly always on the tram to ensure passengers have paid.

Probably down the same route as Nottingham with teams of RPIs patrolling the network to check tickets seemingly at random

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Edinburgh system is bizarre, if you are going to have conductors on every tram they might as well sell tickets.

 

[Gostav]

Another choose is install the ticket vending machine in the tram.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another choose is install the ticket vending machine in the tram.

I suppose it depends on what's cheaper. With only a few trams out, conductors or on board TVMs are probably cheaper. With more trams out on a longer route with more extensions, TVMs at stops probably become cheaper, particularly as you'd mostly only need one as almost everyone will be either paying contactless or with some kind of Oyster style card.

 

[Class172]

I suppose it depends on what's cheaper. With only a few trams out, conductors or on board TVMs are probably cheaper. With more trams out on a longer route with more extensions, TVMs at stops probably become cheaper, particularly as you'd mostly only need one as almost everyone will be either paying contactless or with some kind of Oyster style card.

Given that there are number of extensions to the metro network underway the proposed changes would link with this logic - the Brierley Hill extension in particular will add a lot of route mileage.

 

[johntea]

I’ve always been rather impressed at how fast the conductors on board Sheffield Supertram are down the tram checking and issuing tickets! (to the extent in over 15 years or so I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I haven’t had my ticket checked even for <5 minute journeys)

 

[185]

Falls into line with Manchester, £100 or 50 in 2 weeks.

Still cant believe the "ticket machine on board" idea still floats around. Even in another country where a far higher proportion of the travelling public are more likely to pay than the UK, as soon as the inspectors boarded, twenty people were miraculously queuing for the TVM... that's since changed, on-board machines are now gone... a good option for customers ruined by scroungers who rarely pay.

 

[the sniper]

Still cant believe the "ticket machine on board" idea still floats around. Even in another country where a far higher proportion of the travelling public are more likely to pay than the UK, as soon as the inspectors boarded, twenty people were miraculously queuing for the TVM... that's since changed, on-board machines are now gone... a good option for customers ruined by scroungers who rarely pay.

Given that the rail industry facilitated people doing this on their phone when they see the 'ticket man' coming, from the comfort of their seats, onboard ticket machines are the least of the problems...

 

[LowLevel]

Given that the rail industry facilitated people doing this on their phone when they see the 'ticket man' coming, from the comfort of their seats, onboard ticket machines are the least of the problems...

If you're minded to do say you can bust them though. It tells you to the minute when they bought it and if it was after departure time you can just penalty fare them

 

[londonbridge]

I’ve posted before how I once got the team from Birmingham to The Hawthorns, conductor hadn’t got to me so I approached him and said “I need a ticket, I’m getting off next stop”, and he replied “just jump off, mate, don’t worry about it”.

 

[duncanp]

I’ve posted before how I once got the team from Birmingham to The Hawthorns, conductor hadn’t got to me so I approached him and said “I need a ticket, I’m getting off next stop”, and he replied “just jump off, mate, don’t worry about it”.

At least you had a conductor on your tram.

Sometimes they operate in service without a conductor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least you had a conductor on your tram.

Sometimes they operate in service without a conductor.

Then it's free. A bit like a bus with a broken ticket machine tends to be.

 

[Sprinter107]

At least you had a conductor on your tram.

Sometimes they operate in service without a conductor.

Yes, ive had the odd ride on a tram where there hasn't been a conductor, but when there is, its very rare they haven't got to me, and if that's the case, ive paid when ive been getting off.