Midland Pullman route

[The Snap]

Hi all,

I've been researching the Midland Pullman today for something to do, and have found it very interesting. My first query was it's route out of Manchester Central, as to my knowledge the station points towards Liverpool, which is the complete wrong direction for St. Pancras and the Midland Mainline. I discovered it ran via Chorlton and Didsbury, Heaton Mersey and Hazel Grove - this line has been removed entirely, and only begins again as Hazel Grove. In theory, that means a massive by-pass line around South Manchester was removed...how useful that would be nowadays! Incidentally, the tracked between Manchester Central and Didsbury is due to be re-used for the Metrolink extension.

Google Earth is an excellent resource for spotting old trackbeds, with lines of trees running for miles being a dead giveaway. I followed it to Chinley, where I came across another query.
Can anyone clarify that the line between Chinley the old station at Millers Dale via Peak Dale (now the freight-only line to the Peak Forest quarry site) was the route that the Midland Pullman took to access Derby? (I believe Millers Dale and the stations before and after it for the Monsal Trail, which yorkie may well know something about?)

I only ask as I did that section of track with 40145 in 2007, and was not aware that it was once a busy mainline - a far contrast from the current, freight-only slow line!

Thanks for any information in advance,

 

[DJ_K666]

I was thinking something similar, but instead thinking of the route of the Paddington - Birmingham Snow Hill Blue Pullman as shown in the films "Lets Go To Birmingham" and "Red Hot Railway" (same run but with 'Rush Hour' footage grafted onto the ends)

It looks like it leaves Paddington and turns off quite quickly before running to Leamington Spa and then Birmingham. Any ideas?

 

[CosherB]

That was indeed the route of the Midland Pullman. From Manchester Central along the route you describe to Chinley, then through Peak Dale (where Peak Forest station was), then along the river Wye on what is now the Monsal Trail through Millers Dale, Monsal Dale, to Rowesley and on south to Derby and eventually St Pancras.

That magnificent line through the Peak District was not closed by Beeching - BR did it several years after the Beeching cuts, just as they tried to close the Settle & Carlisle some years later. BR were no friend of the railway system!

Not only did we also lose the Central - Chorlton - Didsbury line, but there was another 'south Manchester' bypass line further north but still south of the city (it passed through the inner southern Mancheser suburbs like Levenshume) specifically built so freight trains could avoid routing through the city centre. As I stand on Platform 13 at Piccadilly these days and see lengthy container trains passing through this mega-busy passenger station on their way to Trafford Park I am reminded how useful that line would be today!

 

[matt]

I was thinking something similar, but instead thinking of the route of the Paddington - Birmingham Snow Hill Blue Pullman as shown in the films "Lets Go To Birmingham" and "Red Hot Railway" (same run but with 'Rush Hour' footage grafted onto the ends)

It looks like it leaves Paddington and turns off quite quickly before running to Leamington Spa and then Birmingham. Any ideas?

It went via what is now the Chiltern line via High Wycombe.

 

[paul1609]

That was indeed the route of the Midland Pullman. From Manchester Central along the route you describe to Chinley, then through Peak Dale (where Peak Forest station was), then along the river Wye on what is now the Monsal Trail through Millers Dale, Monsal Dale, to Rowesley and on south to Derby and eventually St Pancras.

That magnificent line through the Peak District was not closed by Beeching - BR did it several years after the Beeching cuts, just as they tried to close the Settle & Carlisle some years later. BR were no friend of the railway system!

Not only did we also lose the Central - Chorlton - Didsbury line, but there was another 'south Manchester' bypass line further north but still south of the city (it passed through the inner southern Mancheser suburbs like Levenshume) specifically built so freight trains could avoid routing through the city centre. As I stand on Platform 13 at Piccadilly these days and see lengthy container trains passing through this mega-busy passenger station on their way to Trafford Park I am reminded how useful that line would be today!

Having cycled the Monsal trail earlier this year I agree that it must have been a spectacular line through the peak district. However by modern standards it must have been very slow. i reckon the maximum speed was probably around 60 mph?

 

[bunnahabhain]

Not only did we also lose the Central - Chorlton - Didsbury line, but there was another 'south Manchester' bypass line further north but still south of the city (it passed through the inner southern Mancheser suburbs like Levenshume) specifically built so freight trains could avoid routing through the city centre. As I stand on Platform 13 at Piccadilly these days and see lengthy container trains passing through this mega-busy passenger station on their way to Trafford Park I am reminded how useful that line would be today!

That would be the Fallowfield Loop, built by the MS&LR (later GCR) to gain a direct route to Liverpool and Manchester Central.

 

[Metroland]

The Midland Pullman is featured on the Peak line in the rather excellent 'Blue Pullman' film by BTF made in 1960 - it is colour. Featured on 'on and off the rails'

http://filmstore.bfi.org.uk/acatalog/info_86.html

Exert here

[youtube]33DLUgWeIeM[/youtube]

Also the box set

The Peak line is fully documented in 'Through limestone hills'

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Lim...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248120214&sr=8-1

Which can only be had second hand.

There is a book on the Blue Pullman itself, but already out of print. But you might find it secondhand.

http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=5006

 

[jp4712]

Please allow me to clear up one small item of confusion - the Midland Pullman didn't go via Derby, or at any rate Derby station. It 'turned left' (if you're going southbound) just north of Derby station to run via Derby North Junction, Derby South Junction, Chaddesden and Spondon Junction, thence to Trent and then south.

This line was closed many years ago, and some of the trackbed roughly follows the line of Wyvern Way, Derby (just south of the A52 dual carriageway).

Paul

 

[DJ_K666]

It went via what is now the Chiltern line via High Wycombe.

Ah thanks for that Matt. I know what to look out for now...

 

[toni2]

I was thinking something similar, but instead thinking of the route of the Paddington - Birmingham Snow Hill Blue Pullman as shown in the films "Lets Go To Birmingham" and "Red Hot Railway" (same run but with 'Rush Hour' footage grafted onto the ends)

It looks like it leaves Paddington and turns off quite quickly before running to Leamington Spa and then Birmingham. Any ideas?

Yes Birmingham Pullman used to run from junction near to Old Oak Common (can't remember name) up through Greenford alongside LT Central line thro West Ruislip onto Banburty Leamington Spa and thro South Birmingham to Birmingham Moor Street - I should know I went on it often enough as a youngster. The primary reason for its introduction was as an alternative to the now West Coast mainline while they electrified it and of course as we do in this country effectively abondoned and destroyed the through route once WCML was running again in the 60's-70's.
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Having cycled the Monsal trail earlier this year I agree that it must have been a spectacular line through the peak district. However by modern standards it must have been very slow. i reckon the maximum speed was probably around 60 mph?

It's good to remember the best and worst features of BR's history. As with the Birmingham Pullman from Paddington to Snow Hill the Midland Pullman was also introduced to replace direct services while electrification was in progress on the now West Coast Mainline. The Midland Pullman ran at times from mainly St. Pancras and from Marylebone occasionally. I should know I travelled on this frequently as a 'trainspotting' youngster wiith a Dad who got 'priv' tickets to Manchester Central. The train turned left off the Midland main line route towards Buxton (avoiding it though) and Chinley at Ambergate as the BBC Blue Pullman video shows. The majority of the impressive route through the Peak District is now a footpath, although private initiatives might one day restore part if not all to rail travel again.

 

[Navviboy]

The Midland Pullman finally ended up as a Nottingham - London (via Leicester) service. It went up in the morning, came back down as far as Leicester around mid-day, back up to London again before finally coming back down to Nottingham in the evening) As far as I remember it all came to an end aound 1967 and the units went to the Western region.

My dating of the ceasation of the service is based upon having seen one of the last services leave Nottingham and recalling the semaphore signals slung from the canopies on platform 5 (I think). These were swept away by the resignalling in 1967/68. Memory is a fickle thing and I could be a wee bit out!