Missing stop

[tang]

hello everyone ,
I work in Iram . I have a country card can by any train and bus in Manchester .yesterday Monday , I am day off , I want go to Cheadle hulme to see my friend . I ride the 4:04pm train From Manchester Piccadilly , on the way I had a nap , I was asleep , when I awake train is near arrive handforth soon , I missing 1 stop , I drop in handforth . then a few guys checking ticket, I showed them my county card, one man said my ticket not include travel to handforth, then I told him , I was asleep . then he use his mobile took my county card photo and asked my passport , my home address and my phone number, and sign on the papper. and I asked him how much I need to pay ? I missing 1 stop . he said I don't need to pay now , when I receive the letter , I explain why I missing stop.
I want to know in this situation ,they will fine or only explain ? if fine , how much I need to pay ? and how many days I will receive the letter ? I google search missing stop , I Manchester had fined £700 and he has ticket. I am very worry , can not sleep all night long. please help

 

[tang]

This was on Northern rail service

 

[najaB]

if fine , how much I need to pay ? and how many days I will receive the letter ? I google search missing stop , I Manchester had fined £700 and he has ticket. I am very worry , can not sleep all night long. please help

Typically Northern Rail deal with cases like this by issuing either a warning letter or a Fixed Penalty Notice for £80.

 

[DuncanS]

Why would they ask for a passport?

 

[najaB]

Why would they ask for a passport?

Going out on a limb here, but the OP may have said that he's not from the UK and they asked for something to back that up.

 

[AlterEgo]

What ticket did the OP actually have?

 

[najaB]

What ticket did the OP actually have?

I believe it was this: http://www.systemonetravelcards.co.uk/travelcards/details/county-card

 

[island]

Assuming you’ve not been in trouble before for ticket problems, you will probably end up with a Penalty Fake for £82.50, being £80 plus the fare you would have needed to pay for your journey. Payment of this amount will result in the matter being brought to a close. Non-payment will result in the matter being prosecuted in court.

 

[Stew998]

I'd have boarded a train back to the station I'd missed, that's my usual approach on the odd occasion it's happened to me. If the ticket check was unavoidable I'd simply explain what had happened, I've done that in the past too, but if English isn't your first language that might not be an easy or attractive option especially if they were some humorless revenue protection types...

 

[AlterEgo]

OP - is your home address within the Greater Manchester ticketing zone? (That is to say, not in Handforth for example)

 

[matt_world2004]

I thought that when this happens it is convention to allow the passenger to take the next train back to their station and nothing would come of it unless they refused to hop on the next train

 

[PeterC]

My experience is that an RPI will be positioned to catch anybody changing direction when they see a check taking place at the exit.

 

[6Gman]

hello everyone ,
I work in Iram . I have a country card can by any train and bus in Manchester .yesterday Monday , I am day off , I want go to Cheadle hulme to see my friend . I ride the 4:04pm train From Manchester Piccadilly , on the way I had a nap , I was asleep , when I awake train is near arrive handforth soon , I missing 1 stop , I drop in handforth . then a few guys checking ticket, I showed them my county card, one man said my ticket not include travel to handforth, then I told him , I was asleep . then he use his mobile took my county card photo and asked my passport , my home address and my phone number, and sign on the papper. and I asked him how much I need to pay ? I missing 1 stop . he said I don't need to pay now , when I receive the letter , I explain why I missing stop.
I want to know in this situation ,they will fine or only explain ? if fine , how much I need to pay ? and how many days I will receive the letter ? I google search missing stop , I Manchester had fined £700 and he has ticket. I am very worry , can not sleep all night long. please help

First of all, try not to worry too much. It won't help and you're very unlikely to face anything like a £700 bill for this.

Wait until the letter arrives and then send back your own letter explaining what happened and how, that you apologise for any difficulties caused to the company, and that you will be carefully not to be accidentally overcarried in this way again. Offer to meet their reasonable costs and the fare for the extra distance you travelled.

Presumably English is not your first language so you may wish to ask on here for advice at that stage.

Good luck and try not to worry.

 

[falcon]

Ticket Examiners Handbook rules ATOC.

 

[AlterEgo]

View attachment 39959 View attachment 39960

Ticket Examiners Handbook rules ATOC.

Indeed. Heading for the exit isn’t what you would do at Handforth if you’d overtravelled. You’d go up and over the footbridge. No need to go to the station exit at all.

OP - where were the inspectors positioned?

 

[falcon]

Indeed. Heading for the exit isn’t what you would do at Handforth if you’d overtravelled. You’d go up and over the footbridge. No need to go to the station exit at all.

OP - where were the inspectors positioned?

But where does he say he was heading for the exit?

 

[ainsworth74]

But where does he say he was heading for the exit?

They don't hence the need to the clarification.

 

[sauropod99]

Indeed. Heading for the exit isn’t what you would do at Handforth if you’d overtravelled. You’d go up and over the footbridge. No need to go to the station exit at all.

OP - where were the inspectors positioned?

No, but anybody going up the footbridge is going "towards" the exit because the ticket office is located between the road bridge and the footbridge. I often saw RPI's positioned at the top of the stairs at Wimbledon - well before the exit. They stopped everybody who got off each train (causing long queues). If the RPI's had been at the exit, deliberate fare dodgers could have just gone to another platform and caught a train without being stopped.

 

[matt_world2004]

No, but anybody going up the footbridge is going "towards" the exit because the ticket office is located between the road bridge and the footbridge. I often saw RPI's positioned at the top of the stairs at Wimbledon - well before the exit. They stopped everybody who got off each train (causing long queues). If the RPI's had been at the exit, deliberate fare dodgers could have just gone to another platform and caught a train without being stopped.

Thing is dependong on the layout of some stations heading towards the exit in itself may not indicate the person is leaving the station for example if I was swapping platforms at Hayes and harlington I would head towards the exit walk through the building and back down the stairwell. This is because it is easier for me than turning round and walking against the crowd leaving the train.

 

[AlterEgo]

But where does he say he was heading for the exit?

He doesn’t so that’s why it’s importsnt we find out where he was stopped. Was it actually at the exit, on the platform, on the footbridge, or where?

 

[MG11]

I agree that sounds ridiculous although it looks like the OP got off at Handforth and then presumably tried to exit the station as he ran into "a few guys checking ticket" - which is where he went wrong.

I'd have boarded a train back to the station I'd missed, that's my usual approach on the odd occasion it's happened to me. If the ticket check was unavoidable I'd simply explain what had happened, I've done that in the past too, but if English isn't your first language that might not be an easy or attractive option especially if they were some humorless revenue protection types...

The correct course of action would have been to find a member of staff AS SOON as you wake up I.e. guard on train or actively seek out staff at the station (Handforth in this case), and hope that they show mercy (not that they are obligated to). Boarding a train back the other way, as you suggested, can lead to more trouble, as you are now making TWO journeys without a valid ticket.

 

[MG11]

From the pics on Google Maps, it looks like the only way to cross to the other platform is via the booking office, so the OP would have had to head towards (but not through) the exit to catch a train going in the other direction.

I have, on occasion, been stopped by RPI's when changing platforms for a connection and also when I was standing on a platform waiting for a train. I was OK because I had a ticket but many of the stations on the CLC line for example, don't have overbridges so exiting the station to cross the line is a necessity.

I have seen Northern RPOs stopping people as they were changing platforms at Piccadilly, a ticket check could happen anywhere.

 

[paddington]

Once I was on a train at Saxmundham towards Ipswich, when couple got on with tickets from Liv St to Woodbridge.

I think it was mainly their American accents and "American" amounts of luggage that convinced the guard.

 

[185]

Ticket Examiners Handbook rules ATOC.

Many years ago, on my retail course, I remember a talk on the 'looseness' of the use discretion with 'foreign nationals' stated in the Examiners Handbook. I mostly recall the trainer's rant about how guards in Europe pick on us holiday-making Brits.... but the general point he later made though, was when dealing with someone whose first language is not English is - to only exercise discretion for someone who has literally fallen out of a plane within the last week or so, and are here for a short holiday. If they've been studying living or working here then they are certainly fair game.

 

[island]

I note the ticket examiner's handbook but a passenger is not entitled to enforce the contents of an internal rail industry handbook as against the railway.

 

[falcon]

I note the ticket examiner's handbook but a passenger is not entitled to enforce the contents of an internal rail industry handbook as against the railway.

I am afraid you are wrong because if the matter went to court the rules would be revealed in court to the magistrates who could give consideration to them. The fact that the ticket examiners handbook is an internal document is irrelevant all information must now be disclosed in courts under the disclosure rules. Long gone are the day's of the unscrupulous holding back evidence that will benefit a defendant.Though some would still like it to be that way.

 

[najaB]

Ticket Examiners Handbook rules ATOC.

Thanks for posting it, but I'm not entirely sure how this is supposed to be of assistance to the OP. It merely says that discretion should be shown - while it is often treated as such, 'discretion' doesn't mean 'let off without exception'.

 

[LOL The Irony]

hello everyone ,
I work in Iram . I have a country card can by any train and bus in Manchester .yesterday Monday , I am day off , I want go to Cheadle hulme to see my friend . I ride the 4:04pm train From Manchester Piccadilly , on the way I had a nap , I was asleep , when I awake train is near arrive handforth soon , I missing 1 stop , I drop in handforth . then a few guys checking ticket, I showed them my county card, one man said my ticket not include travel to handforth, then I told him , I was asleep . then he use his mobile took my county card photo and asked my passport , my home address and my phone number, and sign on the papper. and I asked him how much I need to pay ? I missing 1 stop . he said I don't need to pay now , when I receive the letter , I explain why I missing stop.
I want to know in this situation ,they will fine or only explain ? if fine , how much I need to pay ? and how many days I will receive the letter ? I google search missing stop , I Manchester had fined £700 and he has ticket. I am very worry , can not sleep all night long. please help

Best thing to do is explain to Northern that English isn't your first language and apologise for exiting the station. And in future, if you miss your stop, ASAP get on a train back to your stop.

 

[falcon]

Thanks for posting it, but I'm not entirely sure how this is supposed to be of assistance to the OP. It merely says that discretion should be shown - while it is often treated as such, 'discretion' doesn't mean 'let off without exception'.

The fact the Ticket Examiners hand book has this particular type of situation in it and states discretion should be used is very relevant. Most other irregularities are not qualified with 'use discretion'. It is therefore not recognised by the railway as an absolute offence like most others and as such makes clear to ticket examining staff there is a defence that shoud be recognised them.

 

[najaB]

The fact the Ticket Examiners hand book has this particular type of situation in it and states discretion should be used is very relevant. Most other irregularities are not qualified with 'use discretion'. It is therefore not recognised by the railway as an absolute offence like most others and as such makes clear to ticket examining staff there is a defence that shoud be recognised them.

But it doesn't mean that foreign nationals have carte-blanche to travel without a ticket or overtravel. If there are factors that lead the RPI to suspect that it may not be an innocent mistake then they should be reported just the same as a UK national would be.