MML Electrification: progress updates

[Nottingham59]

So they could do RS3 and RS2b without having to do the station.

And the main uncertainty on track layout is between Wigston and Leicester station, so it makes sense to leave that section for now, if you can

 

[Merle Haggard]

But, sadly, it means the the only place that diesel fumes are emitted on the journey from St Pancras to the North is in Leicester city centre...

 

[Peter Sarf]

But, sadly, it means the the only place that diesel fumes are emitted on the journey from St Pancras to the North is in Leicester city centre...

Small price to pay for getting the bulk of the MML electrified and it won't affect operations. Otherwise we get hung up on a complex bit with unfinished aspirations and over engineer it and the whole project stalls (compare with HS2).

 

[zwk500]

But, sadly, it means the the only place that diesel fumes are emitted on the journey from St Pancras to the North is in Leicester city centre...

If that is the only place left, it'll be a much stronger case for infill.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If that is the only place left, it'll be a much stronger case for infill.

Very true and ideally infill will be done when the track layout at Leicester has developed into what is deemed ideal for operations.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Very true and ideally infill will be done when the track layout at Leicester has developed into what is deemed ideal for operations.

Aren't clearances the big issue? It's much easier raising the level of a major road over a bridge in Northamptonshire than London Road in central Leicester.

 

[slowroad]

Aren't clearances the big issue? It's much easier raising the level of a major road over a bridge in Northamptonshire than London Road in central Leicester.

Batteries will deal with Leicester.

 

[zwk500]

Aren't clearances the big issue? It's much easier raising the level of a major road over a bridge in Northamptonshire than London Road in central Leicester.

You'll potentially be able to make big cost savings by combining any works for the track layout with electrification prep works.

 

[Nottingham59]

Aren't clearances the big issue? It's much easier raising the level of a major road over a bridge in Northamptonshire than London Road in central Leicester.

I understand that the main station bridge has enough clearance for electrification, perhaps with special measures.

EDIT:

Is the really big problem with further MML electrification (whenever it gets approved) the height available at Leicester ?

That is a problem. However AIUI it can be solved in the same was as at Cardiff.

 

[GardenRail]

The pessimistic me, sees this as an indicator that Leicester station will never get wired. I don't believe that little bits should be missed out. Just do it properly.

 

[Meerkat]

It's on page 5 - the summary blob still refers to Section 2 but it's marked as 2a/2b on the line diagram.

(You have to zoom in and the diagram is of low resolution, so not easy to find.)

That diagram has an interesting opinion of where South Wigston is in relation to the other lines in grey!

Apologies if I have lost track but is a fourth line Leiceste-Syston and a second Syston platform in scope?

 

[Merle Haggard]

The pessimistic me, sees this as an indicator that Leicester station will never get wired. I don't believe that little bits should be missed out. Just do it properly.

In my 'left-field' bit of thinking, it's unfortunate that there are now bi-modes. The early 25kv schemes didn't have that 'get out of jail free' opportunity so they were forced to (and did) overcome every problem. The first extension from the MML towards Snow Hill (London!) on slab track being a good example, i.m.o.

 

[DannyMich2018]

While not ideal leaving Leicester unwired isn't really too much of a problem in the medium term as they will be no electrically hauled freight and the 810s been bi-mode means as gap not a major operational problem.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Batteries will deal with Leicester.

The class 810s soon to be delivered are Bi-Mode so will cope just fine.

The pessimistic me, sees this as an indicator that Leicester station will never get wired. I don't believe that little bits should be missed out. Just do it properly.

I don't mind if Leicester is never wired. Sure I like to see it all complete and continuous - be it electrification or any other thing. But it is no great loss. No point stalling the whole MML electrification over one location - Leicester. Look at HS2 it has become over engineered (the way I like it) but all of a sudden DEAD.

In my 'left-field' bit of thinking, it's unfortunate that there are now bi-modes. The early 25kv schemes didn't have that 'get out of jail free' opportunity so they were forced to (and did) overcome every problem. The first extension from the MML towards Snow Hill (London!) on slab track being a good example, i.m.o.

Nowadays the "get out of jail free" opportunity means electrification is more likely. Remember we have had very very slow progress on electrification in the UK. Now we have Bi-Modes we can get on with what should have been done in the 1970s or early 1980s. The East Coast Mainline was done on a budget as otherwise it would never have happened - granted we have to improve it nowadays but it would still be diesel if we had planned ahead !. The over engineered, over budget and consequently incomplete Great Western Mainline electrification nearly killed off future electrification. The Midland Mainline electrification is proving the railways can have a pragmatic and cost-effective approach to electrification. I do like to see things all neat, tidy and complete but in the real world it isn't like that unfortunately.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Nowadays the "get out of jail free" opportunity means electrification is more likely. Remember we have had very very slow progress on electrification in the UK. Now we have Bi-Modes we can get on with what should have been done in the 1970s or early 1980s. The East Coast Mainline was done on a budget as otherwise it would never have happened - granted we have to improve it nowadays but it would still be diesel if we had planned ahead !. The over engineered, over budget and consequently incomplete Great Western Mainline electrification nearly killed off future electrification. The Midland Mainline electrification is proving the railways can have a pragmatic and cost-effective approach to electrification. I do like to see things all neat, tidy and complete but in the real world it isn't like that unfortunately.

Yes indeed, all fair points well made.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes indeed, all fair points well made.

Thinking about it I realise the UK has as much as forty years of catching up to do on electrification !. Fingers crossed for the MML sparks effect soon(er).

 

[InTheEastMids]

Well i sincerely hope so this team have proven themselves and i know we don't have visibility on costs but in terms of achieving programme they are doing that and thus it would be travesty to lose momentum now.

My skim read of it after a large gin last night was the need to increase the rate of progress (which has been painfully slow) and so need a lot more resource.

However with so little electrification ongoing there isn't really the supply chain to scale and drive cost down.

So to me, the talk of partnership/alliance models mens that I think they want to nurture and grow capability and reduce cost by building out from the current suppliers. It's not a standard retendering asking for a bit more quality and s bit less cost than the current contract.

Also confirmation that current cost is £3.7m/STK and the target is 2.5

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

My skim read of it after a large gin last night was the need to increase the rate of progress (which has been painfully slow) and so need a lot more resource.

However with so little electrification ongoing there isn't really the supply chain to scale and drive cost down.

So to me, the talk of partnership/alliance models mens that I think they want to nurture and grow capability and reduce cost by building out from the current suppliers. It's not a standard retendering asking for a bit more quality and s bit less cost than the current contract.

Also confirmation that current cost is £3.7m/STK and the target is 2.5

Not sure why you would tell tenders what your upper limit is!! Anyhow with SPL having done a big chunk of MML of varying degrees of complexity they will have pretty good experience about what drives cost and where efficiencies can be made, ie a blockade would allow an x% reduction in unit rates. Clearly you cant do much about the cost of raw materials and inflationary wage rises but an ability to have a live construction site is an absolute necessity for training staff to build a larger workforce if Network North electrification goals are going to be realised.

 

[Nottingham59]

My skim read of it

I can only see the tender notice and Part 6, "instructions to participants". Is the "Strategic Brief" available to view?

 

[Bald Rick]

That diagram has an interesting opinion of where South Wigston is in relation to the other lines in grey!

Apologies if I have lost track but is a fourth line Leiceste-Syston and a second Syston platform in scope?

As part of electrification? No.

However with so little electrification ongoing there isn't really the supply chain to scale and drive cost down.

There is quite a lot of electrification going on at present. Not as much as there should be, but still plenty.

 

[Tim__]

NR issued a contract notice for the MMLE Partnership Framework today, in relation to MML3:

Network Rail Eastern Midland Main Line Electrification Partnership Framework - Find a Tender

www.find-tender.service.gov.uk

https://networkrail.bravosolution.co.uk/esop/guest/go/opportunity/detail?opportunityId=57084

Plenty of material to examine, though I'll quote a few key paragraphs (from the Part 6: Instructions to Participants PDF):


Also, RS2 is now split into RS2a (Wigston South-Leicester North) and RS2b (Leicester North-Syston).

Hi, where is Leicester North exactly?
Regards

 

[Edvid]

I presume NR mean Leicester North Jn, which is immediately north / northeast of the station.

 

[STINT47]

I presume NR mean Leicester North Jn, which is immediately north / northeast of the station.

It's either that or they're planning to electrify the preserved Great Central Railway from it's southern terminus northwards.

 

[Meerkat]

As part of electrification? No.

So they are planning to electrify without the fourth track…..please tell me they will design it to not impede adding a fourth later….?

 

[Bald Rick]

So they are planning to electrify without the fourth track…..please tell me they will design it to not impede adding a fourth later….?

Where is the 4th track going?

 

[londonmidland]

Where is the 4th track going?

I assume within the disused track bed of Knighton Tunnel?

 

[Meerkat]

Where is the 4th track going?

From Syston to Leicester. It was four track before no?
I thought the plan was for four track Syston-Wigston and the debate was whether Wigston need grade separation

 

[PJM]

Check out post #6252 by Snowball, there is a report detailing the proposals for 4 tracking and Leicester station remodelling. Yes they are intending to use the disused Knighton tunnel.

 

[Snow1964]

Construction Enquirer is saying Network Rail looking at Contractors for Wigston-Nottingham / Sheffield electrification and wants costs down to £2.5m per kilometre

The rail infrastructure company has just started the hunt for four key partner contractors to deliver the next £1.2bn upgrade from Wigston and Nottingham out to Sheffield.

A key objective is to use its SPEED principles and incentives to drive down the spend per single track kilometre on the electrification project.

Using these, the recently commissioned London to Corby electrification was delivered at a rate of £3.7m per STK.

Noe Network Rail procurement chiefs are aiming to deliver the next stage of electrification at £2.5m per STK.

A new 10-year partnership framework to deliver the project, which has just come out to tender, will include the performance-based incentives to drive down the STK rate and achieve other MMLE objectives, including health and safety, decarbonisation and social value.

Partners will be incentivised both individually and collectively.

Eastern Midland Main Line Electrification Partnership Framework​

10-year framework (5+5 years) will be split into the four work disciplines
Lot 1 – Power & Distribution (value £125m)
Lot 2 – Structures & Civils (value £340m)
Lot 3 – OLE & Integration (value £450m)
Lot 4 – Signalling & Telecoms (value £100m)
There will be 1 Partner plus 2 pre-qualified reserve suppliers appointed to each of the lots.

Target to slash costs by third on £1.2bn Midlands rail upgrade

Network Rail sets £2.5m/km electrification costs target on Nottingham and Sheffield stretch

www.constructionenquirer.com

 

[Peter Sarf]

Construction Enquirer is saying Network Rail looking at Contractors for Wigston-Nottingham / Sheffield electrification and wants costs down to £2.5m per kilometre

Target to slash costs by third on £1.2bn Midlands rail upgrade

Network Rail sets £2.5m/km electrification costs target on Nottingham and Sheffield stretch

www.constructionenquirer.com

Is cutting a third off costs/quotes realistic ?. Is it going to lead to silly bids that turn sour half way through construction, de-scoping or lead to poor quality.