MML Electrification: progress updates

[59CosG95]

Not sure a TWAO is required. It wasn’t for electrification to Corby. What would that be for?

I seem to recall from NR's website that a TWAO was indeed procured for the job... https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...dland-main-line-upgrade/london-to-corby-twao/
In the case of the electrification, new substations (TSCs, feeder stations etc.) can't always be sited on 100% railway land, so a land purchase would be required in those cases. At access points, larger yard space may be needed to stockpile materials (such as piles, masts etc.). Perhaps the main parts of the MML TWAO covered the works to restore the 4th track between Sharnbrook & Kettering, and the restoration of Wellingborough P4.

 

[cle]

Hopefully from Market H' the next stop could be Nottingham. That would unlock 2 more services per hour, whereas Derby semis are of course to Sheffield. Then at least that route would be completed.

Whereas Sheffield has Erewash, diversionary routes and onwards extensions to complicate things.

 

[Bald Rick]

I seem to recall from NR's website that a TWAO was indeed procured for the job... https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...dland-main-line-upgrade/london-to-corby-twao/
In the case of the electrification, new substations (TSCs, feeder stations etc.) can't always be sited on 100% railway land, so a land purchase would be required in those cases. At access points, larger yard space may be needed to stockpile materials (such as piles, masts etc.). Perhaps the main parts of the MML TWAO covered the works to restore the 4th track between Sharnbrook & Kettering, and the restoration of Wellingborough P4.

Ah. An application was made, but no order decision was made. Technically it is still ‘under consideration’.

However, given that the work has been done, it can safely be assumed that the powers requested (to compulsorily purchase a few small parcels of land, close a level crossing, and have over sailing rights for OLE masts on two viaducts) were not needed. Recalcitrant land owners often decide to sell when a TWAO application is submitted, as thy know the offer on the table is better than the one they will get at the end of the TWAO process (assuming their lawyers are sufficiently on the ball).

I’m not saying that a TWAO definitely isn’t required to get to Market Harboro, but it’s very unlikely. If it is, add 2 years to the completion date.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hopefully from Market H' the next stop could be Nottingham. That would unlock 2 more services per hour, whereas Derby semis are of course to Sheffield. Then at least that route would be completed.

Whereas Sheffield has Erewash, diversionary routes and onwards extensions to complicate things.

Exactly what I would do after MH then Leicester - Nottingham next.

 

[lambo89]

Does anyone know what the new portacabins behind platform 4 at Kettering are to be used for?

 

[Scott1]

Does anyone know what the new portacabins behind platform 4 at Kettering are to be used for?

Temporary crew accommodation I belive, mess room, booking on point and so on.

 

[lambo89]

Temporary crew accommodation I belive, mess room, booking on point and so on.

That is at the front of the station, I am talking about behind platform 4.

 

[59CosG95]

That is at the front of the station, I am talking about behind platform 4.

The platforms at Kettering are in reverse order to those at Wellingborough, so P1 is the Up Slow, and P4 is the Down Fast.

 

[lambo89]

The platforms at Kettering are in reverse order to those at Wellingborough, so P1 is the Up Slow, and P4 is the Down Fast.

Yes that is correct. There are portacabins at the front of the station (P1) which are crew messing facilities. There are now some further portacabins which have arrived at the rear of the station (P4). Those have arrived in the last few days so I am wondering what they are going to be used for.

 

[steverailer]

So after the current electrification project is complete, how long until the next one starts to extend it northwards? Also, do we even know if the wires will reach Market Harborough yet? There's been very little information regarding that recently.

I can't help think that once this project is complete, it'll be a number of years until the next one starts, inching the wires northwards. Electrification should have ended at Nottingham and/or Derby for the time being in my opinion.

Not soon enough, lots of lads and lasses on the MML have been given their notice this week as the job starts to wind down. Add these to the other highly skilled teams who are currently out of work. Unless something is started in the next 12 months at the latest, a lot of skill, expertise and experience wiyll leave the industry. Then, if they decide to start up again, you'll have the same issues as 5/6 years ago with having to train new teams up from scratch, lack of productivity as they gain the experience leading to higher installation costs. And so the cycle starts all over again with people screaming that the costs are too high

 

[librarianallen]

I live at a distance from the MML. Can someone please tell me, are both the down lines now in use?

And what about the testing? I understand that there have been several slots recently in RTT for the electrification test train, but the slots have always been cancelled.

 

[Aictos]

Not soon enough, lots of lads and lasses on the MML have been given their notice this week as the job starts to wind down. Add these to the other highly skilled teams who are currently out of work. Unless something is started in the next 12 months at the latest, a lot of skill, expertise and experience wiyll leave the industry. Then, if they decide to start up again, you'll have the same issues as 5/6 years ago with having to train new teams up from scratch, lack of productivity as they gain the experience leading to higher installation costs. And so the cycle starts all over again with people screaming that the costs are too high

I had this discussion with someone recently and their view was well they just have to retrain fit another job like the rest of us but I agree with your post above because retraining does take time and money to train up engineers which is why it's important to have a rolling programme of electrification eg once wired to Corby then look at extending further northwards on the MML.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What makes the non-electrification of the Fasts from Kings Norton to Longbridge, and then the Slows from Longbridge to Cofton Jn/Barnt Green doubly annoying is that, when the time comes to wire up the unwired tracks, the existing assemblies will invariably need removal.

From memory, about a third of the unwired section north of Longbridge has 4-track headspan masts over the whole layout, even though only the 2 slow tracks are wired.
Meanwhile the other two thirds has single track cantilevers just for the slows.
I did once count the number of masts affected, but have forgotten the numbers...

 

[Killingworth]

I had this discussion with someone recently and their view was well they just have to retrain fit another job like the rest of us but I agree with your post above because retraining does take time and money to train up engineers which is why it's important to have a rolling programme of electrification eg once wired to Corby then look at extending further northwards on the MML.

It's not just the teams working on the specific projects. It's all the companies producing every component that goes towards the work. Stop, go, stop means that every time there's a stop another contractor is in danger of slimming down or packing up. When the next go period comes along many of the new orders will be fulfilled from overseas.

It's hard to believe the North Eastern Railway was planning to electrify from York to Newcastle before WW1 and a prototype mainline electric locomotive was commissioned 100 years ago in 1920. It survived, unused, into British Railways days as 26600. We've been stopping and starting mainline electrification for over 100 years.

 

[59CosG95]

From memory, about a third of the unwired section north of Longbridge has 4-track headspan masts over the whole layout, even though only the 2 slow tracks are wired.
Meanwhile the other two thirds has single track cantilevers just for the slows.
I did once count the number of masts affected, but have forgotten the numbers...

Looking at a driver's eye view of the route, 11 headspans are up between Kings Norton & Northfield; 8 of these are 5-track, as the Down side mast reaches over the Kings Norton Arrival & Departure siding, and the remaining 3 are 6-track as they reach over still more of the sidings.
The reason the central tracks are wired in Longbridge is due to the points south of the station where the 323s change to the Fasts; only the Fasts, part of the Up Glos. Slow, and the turnback siding are electrified.

 

[Aictos]

It's not just the teams working on the specific projects. It's all the companies producing every component that goes towards the work. Stop, go, stop means that every time there's a stop another contractor is in danger of slimming down or packing up. When the next go period comes along many of the new orders will be fulfilled from overseas.

It's hard to believe the North Eastern Railway was planning to electrify from York to Newcastle before WW1 and a prototype mainline electric locomotive was commissioned 100 years ago in 1920. It survived, unused, into British Railways days as 26600. We've been stopping and starting mainline electrification for over 100 years.

Which is a backwards and unproductive means of futureproofing and upgrading our railways to their best ability's.

We should have a rolling programme covering all regions so diesel islands like North Downs, Marston Vale etc are a thing of the past together with mainlines such as Midland Mainline.

 

[londonmidland]

Looking at a driver's eye view of the route, 11 headspans are up between Kings Norton & Northfield; 8 of these are 5-track, as the Down side mast reaches over the Kings Norton Arrival & Departure siding, and the remaining 3 are 6-track as they reach over still more of the sidings.
The reason the central tracks are wired in Longbridge is due to the points south of the station where the 323s change to the Fasts; only the Fasts, part of the Up Glos. Slow, and the turnback siding are electrified.

At the risk of going off topic, if Network Rail were to wire the middle lines between Northfield and Longbridge, then they’d have to replace the headspans with portals or twin-track cantilevers. As I don’t think they can ‘add’ new components to existing headspans?

 

[59CosG95]

At the risk of going off topic, if Network Rail were to wire the middle lines between Northfield and Longbridge, then they’d have to replace the headspans with portals or twin-track cantilevers. As I don’t think they can ‘add’ new components to existing headspans?

They could, in theory, but with different physical parameters such as span lengths (along-track separation of structures) being taken into consideration, NR would probably prefer to use portals (at areas greater than 4-track or where S&C is present) and TTCs (plain line up to quadruple track). I can probably see widespread renewal of equipment once the final designs for the alteration of the track layout at Kings Norton is determined, but that's something for another thread.

Certainly, headspans were designed to be fairly modular, as long as most physical constraints were adhered to (such as tension in the catenary & contact wires). The only adjustments required would be the clamping of the new equipment into the spanwires, and adjustment of the head span wire (the one that runs from the mast tops) to suit if required.
On the MML, 2 large ceramic insulators on the lower span wire were added in over the 10-foot, to electrically separate the Fasts & Slows; these had a proclivity for failure towards the end of the 2000s and were replaced with new lightweight polymeric (i.e. silicone) insulators.
Lots of the old brown ceramic insulators have been replaced on headspans elsewhere, such as huge swathes of the WCML (as part of WCRM) and on the London section of the GWML too IIRC.

TL;DR: small to medium adjustments to headspans can easily be made, but in the case of Kings Norton - Longbridge - Barnt Green, renewal and replacement with new equipment seems to be the most likely course of action IMHO.

Anyhow, back to the MML proper!

 

[The Ham]

If there were to be a rolling program of electrification could you create the designs fairly early on, so that whenever you needed to do maintenance in an area you could fit in some foundations as well, so that the amount of blockades needed to wire up a route could then be reduced? In doing so it would then reduce your construction costs for the overall scheme.

 

[Killingworth]

If there were to be a rolling program of electrification could you create the designs fairly early on, so that whenever you needed to do maintenance in an area you could fit in some foundations as well, so that the amount of blockades needed to wire up a route could then be reduced? In doing so it would then reduce your construction costs for the overall scheme.

Please don't bring such bright ideas into railway planning. It's far too logical.

Much of the MML outline design work must already be done. I've seen a site earmarked for an electricity feeder station near Dore West Junction, although that's probably changed as the HS2 team didn't seem to know about it. Situation normal for a joined up railway?!

 

[Glenn1969]

That article is dated last December. Take it with 10 tons of salt never mind a pinch lol

 

[swissrailpassion]

At one office on the instructions of the DfT, 300 people were working on MML electrification design only to be stood down mid-afternoon with the work not rounded off to enable it to be picked up later.
They were furious and their employer had to find other projects.

 

[WymoWanderer]

I live at a distance from the MML. Can someone please tell me, are both the down lines now in use?

And what about the testing? I understand that there have been several slots recently in RTT for the electrification test train, but the slots have always been cancelled.

If you mean the extra line between Kettering and Sharnbrook junction, no it is not. Was supposed to be used next Monday by this service but it has been changed today from using platform 4 at Wellingborough to now using platform 3.

 

[Bald Rick]

If there were to be a rolling program of electrification could you create the designs fairly early on, so that whenever you needed to do maintenance in an area you could fit in some foundations as well, so that the amount of blockades needed to wire up a route could then be reduced? In doing so it would then reduce your construction costs for the overall scheme.

It really doesn’t work like that. I’ll explain more another time.

Please don't bring such bright ideas into railway planning. It's far too logical.

Much of the MML outline design work must already be done.

It isn’t.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It really doesn’t work like that. I’ll explain more another time.

When you have time it might be worth a dedicated thread explaining and deconstruction of some of these myths and misunderstandings please.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Actual MML Electrification news:

This is an excerpt from a letter sent to people living near the railway in Market Harborough.

Key sentence: "The surveys cover a large geographical area between Kettering Station and Greater Bowden"

All but confirms they'll go a bit North of the station

 

[GRALISTAIR]

As you say real MML electrification news and good news at that. As you say it really does confirm it.

 

[edwin_m]

As you say real MML electrification news and good news at that. As you say it really does confirm it.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but ground investigation could just be part of the design work that has been authorized (you can't design the piles/foundations without knowing what the ground is like). There has been no announcement of funding for construction as far as I'm aware, and if there was then I think the politicians would have blown their trumpets loudly enough for us all to hear, and hoping to drown out those of us who will be reminding them that they are re-announcing something cancelled by their predecessor.

 

[mwmbwls]

Where does the National Grid physically feed into the MML at Market Harborough?

 

[59CosG95]

Where does the National Grid physically feed into the MML at Market Harborough?

It's due to be at Braybrooke, just over the Northants/Leics border.