MML future changes

[Ladder23]

Hi all,

Ive been looking back at my time working with Network rail, predominantly between between Bedford and St Pancras and a lot has changed since I started around 10 years ago. It makes me wonder what the next 10 years will bring.

I see the new Brent Cross station is looking well, the whole area including cricklewood sidings has totally changed, EMR now have 360’s.. the 319’s have been replaced with 700’s.. the list goes on, is there anything exciting which is expected to come, whether confirmed or rumoured.

hoping this makes a interesting read, thanks

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Electrification all the way to Sheffield

 

[Supercoss]

New intermodal Railfreight Terminal at Napsbury just north of M25 with connection to slow lines, new under line bridge to serve
overhead line upgraded to 125 mph Bedford to Cricklewood
new slow line island platform at Wixams just south of Elstow
remodelling of tracklayout at Bedford in connection with East West Rail
bay platform 1A extended for 12 car length With connection to slow lines
Closure of Bedford yard and Jowett sidings to be replaced by new sidings at Cauldwell
west London orbital railway , Old Oak Common via Dudding Hill to West Hampstead Thameslink and Hendon with extension to Battle of Britain museum beyond Hendon
Crystal ball -
new intermodal facility at Sundon adjacent to M1 and A5-A6 link road

 

[baz962]

810 bi modes for East Midlands.

 

[The Planner]

New intermodal Railfreight Terminal at Napsbury just north of M25 with connection to slow lines, new under line bridge to serve
overhead line upgraded to 125 mph Bedford to Cricklewood
new slow line island platform at Wixams just south of Elstow
remodelling of tracklayout at Bedford in connection with East West Rail
bay platform 1A extended for 12 car length With connection to slow lines
Closure of Bedford yard and Jowett sidings to be replaced by new sidings at Cauldwell
west London orbital railway , Old Oak Common via Dudding Hill to West Hampstead Thameslink and Hendon with extension to Battle of Britain museum beyond Hendon
Crystal ball -
new intermodal facility at Sundon adjacent to M1 and A5-A6 link road

Id be amazed if anything happens at Bedford within 10 years.

 

[Supercoss]

proposed changes to Bedford Note how you can not route London to Cambridge or return direct at Bedford North Jcn making proposed Bedford Cambridge section almost stand alone
six track section north of Bedford could 'easily' be accommodated with current 4 line section without tinkering with Bromham Road bridge (again !) and compulsory purchase of property nearest to up slow on Sidney road and Spenser road ,
Still no up fast platform though........

 

[Class 170101]

View attachment 138741

How did you come by this map?

 

[Supercoss]

Map was on display at public consultation meeting on the different choices of routes around Bedford , this option or similar to it chosen with St John's relocating and current short single line section being doubled.

 

[Class 170101]

proposed changes to Bedford Note how you can not route London to Cambridge or return direct at Bedford North Jcn making proposed Bedford Cambridge section almost stand alone

View attachment 138741

Seems like an oversight not to have a connection from EWR to MML east to south

 

[JonathanH]

Seems like an oversight not to have a connection from EWR to MML east to south

Is 'oversight' the right word? Maybe 'shame' or 'disappointing' but it isn't as if it has just been forgotten. The diagram suggests there is only room for one connection given the way the ladders work.

The single lead west to north maintains the existing route from the North MML to Bletchley which is presumably preferred relative to losing that connection and instead having something which would only be for new flows.

It would be interesting to see that track plan on an aerial map.

 

[GardenRail]

Electrification all the way to Sheffield

Haha. Yeah, right.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Haha. Yeah, right.

Well the Grid Feeder at Kegworth was ordered a while ago so it is happening but by bit.

 

[Edvid]

Formally applied for, yes. To me, "ordered" implies the detailed spec is decided and equipment on order; unless I'm mistaken the Kegworth feeder will likely remain in the design stage for a while yet.

 

[Supercoss]

Another oddity is that the bi mode trains c810 Will only operate in electric mode for five miles between St Pancras and Cricklewood , as although the line speed on fast lines gradually increases higher than 100 the overhead line max speed limit is 100 right through to Bedford some 45 miles away . Work to ' fix' this won't be completed before new trains arrive . An exhaust free St Pancras with all electric fleet across HS1 Javelin, Eurostar and EMR But 5 miles down the line pan goes down and diesel power takes over for trundle to Bedford Or run in electric mode but with 100 mph timing.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Another oddity is that the bi mode trains c810 Will only operate in electric mode for five miles between St Pancras and Cricklewood , as although the line speed on fast lines gradually increases higher than 100 the overhead line max speed limit is 100 right through to Bedford some 45 miles away . Work to ' fix' this won't be completed before new trains arrive . An exhaust free St Pancras with all electric fleet across HS1 Javelin, Eurostar and EMR But 5 miles down the line pan goes down and diesel power takes over for trundle to Bedford Or run in electric mode but with 100 mph timing.

This just underlies have farcical our railway has become. The 810's were procured four years ago but don't get on with infrastructure changes to use them in electric mode.

 

[Edvid]

The project to modify the Mk3b OLE (labelled OLE125) was approved in March 2023 and should commence this autumn. More details on the MML electrification thread:

MML Electrification: progress updates

3 tracks to the East of near where Warwick Road is now. 4 tracks to the West.

www.railforums.co.uk

As a side, the quoted Modern Railways article speaks of a possible power changeover zone near Borehamwood, which would imply use of wires - on the EMU100 differential - between there and StP before the project's completion (not before summer 2025); that may be informed by the linespeed not exceeding 110mph until the footbridge northwest thereof.

 

[Class 170101]

Are the Class 810s seriously that underpowered on electric at 100mph that they couldn't keep up with Meridian SRTs (on diesel) at 125mph?

 

[swt_passenger]

This just underlies have farcical our railway has become. The 810's were procured four years ago but don't get on with infrastructure changes to use them in electric mode.

At least NR are consistent, there are numerous areas of the country where power supply upgrades have been commenced well after the stock was in service, recently the ECML, but 20 years ago the entire Southern region DC system was apparently completely surprised by the general replacement of slam door stock with more powerful units. They’re still playing catch up even now…

 

[59CosG95]

Are the Class 810s seriously that underpowered on electric at 100mph that they couldn't keep up with Meridian SRTs (on diesel) at 125mph?

This just underlies have farcical our railway has become. The 810's were procured four years ago but don't get on with infrastructure changes to use them in electric mode.

The 810s have never been the problem. The OLE on the Fast lines, specifically at single track cantilever locations and on bridge approaches, was only ever specced for 100mph maximum. When stock faster than the Peaks came in (HSTs, Meridians etc.) arrived, the OLE was left untouched because it was all still diesel.
Only now that IC speeds south of Bedford have dared to exceed 110mph has the need for the Fast Lines' OLE to be upgraded reared its head.

The need to upgrade the OLE was always there, but the scope and details of what was to be upgraded took a long time to agree, between NR, EMR and (presumably) HM Treasury.

 

[Class 170101]

The 810s have never been the problem. The OLE on the Fast lines, specifically at single track cantilever locations and on bridge approaches, was only ever specced for 100mph maximum. When stock faster than the Peaks came in (HSTs, Meridians etc.) arrived, the OLE was left untouched because it was all still diesel.
Only now that IC speeds south of Bedford have dared to exceed 110mph has the need for the Fast Lines' OLE to be upgraded reared its head.

The need to upgrade the OLE was always there, but the scope and details of what was to be upgraded took a long time to agree, between NR, EMR and (presumably) HM Treasury.

I guess my point is does a Class 810 need to drop its pan and operate on diesel at upto 125mph vice leave the pan up and run at upto 100mph and not destroy the timetable?

 

[Edvid]

Observing EMU100 differentials on 810s between Cricklewood and Bedford would add 3 minutes. London-Sheffield/Nottingham services generally don't make intermediate calls on that stretch, so you'd probably need sports car acceleration to make up for the lower top speed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Another oddity is that the bi mode trains c810 Will only operate in electric mode for five miles between St Pancras and Cricklewood , as although the line speed on fast lines gradually increases higher than 100 the overhead line max speed limit is 100 right through to Bedford some 45 miles away . Work to ' fix' this won't be completed before new trains arrive . An exhaust free St Pancras with all electric fleet across HS1 Javelin, Eurostar and EMR But 5 miles down the line pan goes down and diesel power takes over for trundle to Bedford Or run in electric mode but with 100 mph timing.

no, they’ll be electric all the way. The upgrade work will be done mid ‘25.

Observing EMU100 differentials on 810s between Cricklewood and Bedford would add 3 minutes. London-Sheffield/Nottingham services generally don't make intermediate calls on that stretch, so you'd probably need sports car acceleration to make up for the lower top speed.

Not really - in the peak the services have pathing time because of the extra Thameslink services, so that would be used instead.

 

[Supercoss]

no, they’ll be electric all the way. The upgrade work will be done mid ‘25.




Not really - in the peak the services have pathing time because of the extra Thameslink services, so that would be used instead.

Why then are , 'APCO' Balise being installed on fast lines to lower pans on the move between Cricklewood and Hendon = diesel power to and from Bedford if they are " electric all the way" ?

 

[59CosG95]

Why then are , 'APCO' Balise being installed on fast lines to lower pans on the move between Cricklewood and Hendon = diesel power to and from Bedford if they are " electric all the way" ?

As an interim measure.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why then are , 'APCO' Balise being installed on fast lines to lower pans on the move between Cricklewood and Hendon = diesel power to and from Bedford if they are " electric all the way" ?

for initial testing and entry into service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The 810s have never been the problem. The OLE on the Fast lines, specifically at single track cantilever locations and on bridge approaches, was only ever specced for 100mph maximum. When stock faster than the Peaks came in (HSTs, Meridians etc.) arrived, the OLE was left untouched because it was all still diesel.
Only now that IC speeds south of Bedford have dared to exceed 110mph has the need for the Fast Lines' OLE to be upgraded reared its head.

Wasn't saying it was the 810's this is about the inability to have a joined up approach across the industry but at least if GBR should ever come to fruition this sort of nonsense should be avoided in the future.

The need to upgrade the OLE was always there, but the scope and details of what was to be upgraded took a long time to agree, between NR, EMR and (presumably) HM Treasury.

Scope was obvious maintain existing line speed but in electric mode. How to do that is well understood from previous work on ECML and WCML. Im surmising that NR and EMR had a costed solution DfT wouldn't underwrite it.

 

[RobShipway]

proposed changes to Bedford Note how you can not route London to Cambridge or return direct at Bedford North Jcn making proposed Bedford Cambridge section almost stand alone
six track section north of Bedford could 'easily' be accommodated with current 4 line section without tinkering with Bromham Road bridge (again !) and compulsory purchase of property nearest to up slow on Sidney road and Spenser road ,
Still no up fast platform though........
View attachment 138741

The Cambridge - Bedford route at Bedford would be no different than high level Tamworth with the Tamworth station on WCML.

Wasn't saying it was the 810's this is about the inability to have a joined up approach across the industry but at least if GBR should ever come to fruition this sort of nonsense should be avoided in the future.

Scope was obvious maintain existing line speed but in electric mode. How to do that is well understood from previous work on ECML and WCML. Im surmising that NR and EMR had a costed solution DfT wouldn't underwrite it.

I don't believe that you will ever get joined up thinking when it comes to electrifying the railways, otherwise all railway lines would have been electrified by now. You would have certainly had electrification between Didcot and Birmingham Moor Street plus between Bedford and Sheffield by now.

 

[cle]

The Cambridge - Bedford route at Bedford would be no different than high level Tamworth with the Tamworth station on WCML.

Do you mean Tempsford/ECML? Bedford will be a big mixed junction station, vs high and low levels.

 

[RobShipway]

Do you mean Tempsford/ECML? Bedford will be a big mixed junction station, vs high and low levels.

It is I believe going to be the same at Bedford with the line from Cambridge going over the Midland mainline, so that you have a high level platforms on the bridge and low level for the Midland Mainline.

 

[swt_passenger]

It is I believe going to be the same at Bedford with the line from Cambridge going over the Midland mainline, so that you have a high level platforms on the bridge and low level for the Midland Mainline.

The drawing linked in post #6, that you quoted later, shows the EWR still passing under the MML?