MML speeds

[cactustwirly]

Just wondering what the speeds are on the MML. Reading the the thread about the new First Sheffield service has got me thinking about this.

I know there's a mixture of 100/110/125 running, but not 100% where they are.

I know there's been a lot of investment as part of the electrification, and upgrades to Market Harborough etc.

 

[Nottingham59]

Have a look at https://www.openrailwaymap.org

It has a menu option to show line speeds.

 

[The Planner]

Download the sectional appendix off the NR website.

 

[baz962]

Just wondering what the speeds are on the MML. Reading the the thread about the new First Sheffield service has got me thinking about this.

I know there's a mixture of 100/110/125 running, but not 100% where they are.

I know there's been a lot of investment as part of the electrification, and upgrades to Market Harborough etc.

It would take a lot of time. About 80 speed changes between st pancras and Sheffield.

 

[nctd2306]

Have a look at https://www.openrailwaymap.org

It has a menu option to show line speeds.

Interesting website and certainly the mainlines speeds seem to be fairly accurate although the 90mph it claims is allowed between Martins Heron and Wokingham would certainly be appreciated were it actually to exist

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A nice map but the speeds shown for WCML are seriously misleading - 110mph shown for the main line, but 125mph on the North Staffs line!

 

[stuu]

A nice map but the speeds shown for WCML are seriously misleading - 110mph shown for the main line, but 125mph on the North Staffs line!

The 110mph on the WCML is because it doesn't show the EPS limits

 

[hexagon789]

The 110mph on the WCML is because it doesn't show the EPS speeds

While not precisely the same, the 125mph on the MML are HST limits - so it isn't even consistent about showing the base speeds rather than differentials.

That's the same on other routes as well.

 

[satisnek]

All I know about the MML is that it's fast these days - trains go from London to Leicester in little more time than it takes to drink a pint of beer! I can go in the Three Nuns in Loughborough after a day out on the GCR while waiting for my train back to Derby and monitor its progress on Traksy. It's still south of Bedford so I've got all the time in the world, I think. But next time I look it's passing Market Harborough and it's time to drink up and make a move. If I wait until it has got to Leicester I'll miss it.

Well I find it impressive!

 

[cactustwirly]

All I know about the MML is that it's fast these days - trains go from London to Leicester in little more time than it takes to drink a pint of beer! I can go in the Three Nuns in Loughborough after a day out on the GCR while waiting for my train back to Derby and monitor its progress on Traksy. It's still south of Bedford so I've got all the time in the world, I think. But next time I look it's passing Market Harborough and it's time to drink up and make a move. If I wait until it has got to Leicester I'll miss it.

Well I find it impressive!

Same it feels just as fast as the WCML for example, a bit slower north of Trent Junction, but south of it feels very fast!

 

[Nottingham59]

It's fast for a mainline, but not up to WCML or ECML expresses. After 10h tomorrow, fast trains to London from Stafford take 1h09m; from Newark 1h17m; from Derby 1h29m. Both Stafford and Newark are further away from London than is Derby.

 

[satisnek]

I think what distinguishes the MML from the other routes is the extent to which speeds have improved since BR days. I was still a schoolboy when I very first travelled from London to Derby. Back then it was lumbering Class 45/1s with a portion of their power output subtracted to feed air-conditioned coaches which had only recently been displaced from the ECML by the introduction of HSTs. 90mph max, which a limited-stop service might attain in one or two places. Then came HSTs - better acceleration but still limited to 90mph initially.

What we have today is light years away from all of that, in terms of both line speed and train performance.

 

[hexagon789]

Then came HSTs - better acceleration but still limited to 90mph initially.

Four sections of 100mph running were initially authorised for the introduction of the 125s AFAIK essentially concurrently with their introduction to the route.

 

[AL1875]

I have watched several cab rides of the MML recently which show many differential speed limits between some units and “HSTs”. Almost akin to the EPS speed differentials on the WCML for the Pendolinos.

Do the authorities count the Class 222 as a “HST” for purposes of these speed limits and will the new class 810’s be included (north of Bedford, unless OLE upgraded by then) in this definition?

 

[hexagon789]

I have watched several cab rides of the MML recently which show many differential speed limits between some units and “HSTs”. Almost akin to the EPS speed differentials on the WCML for the Pendolinos.

Do the authorities count the Class 222 as a “HST” for purposes of these speed limits and will the new class 810’s be included (north of Bedford, unless OLE upgraded by then) in this definition?

222s are allowed to use HST differentials, as are the various existent 80x series units.

 

[DannyMich2018]

While speeds are very good on the MML non stop services south of Leicester have to slow down for the curves through Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough to well under 100mph.

 

[satisnek]

Four sections of 100mph running were initially authorised for the introduction of the 125s AFAIK essentially concurrently with their introduction to the route.

Ah, I stand corrected. Would I be right in assuming that these sections were at the south end of the route and were part of the West Hampstead resignalling scheme? I really can't imagine any 100mph running north of Sharnbrook before the Leicester resignalling (1986?).

 

[Mugby]

Looking at the timetable for 1998, the fastest Up trains were the Master Cutler which did Derby to London non-stop in 1hr. 30mins.
Also the Up Robin Hood which did Leicester to London in 1hr. 8mins. On both of these the Down journeys were somewhat slower with extra stops.

I feel sure though, that around that time, BR tried to get the Down Master Cutler from London to Leicester non-stop in exactly 1 hour for the 99 miles.
It was found to be unachievable though and lasted for only one timetable period.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have watched several cab rides of the MML recently which show many differential speed limits between some units and “HSTs”. Almost akin to the EPS speed differentials on the WCML for the Pendolinos.

Do the authorities count the Class 222 as a “HST” for purposes of these speed limits and will the new class 810’s be included (north of Bedford, unless OLE upgraded by then) in this definition?

HST on a speed limit includes numerous other classes, think of it as meaning ‘braking performance equivalent to an HST’ - then you’ll find it covers loads of types. Theres a list in a previous thread asking the general question:

What are HST speeds applicable to?

From Oxford Parkway to Bicester (and beyond to Bletchley) is 75/HST 100mph. It will see 10tph (both ways) when you add in 2tph to MK and 1tph to Bedford; 11tph with freight. Why are we creating HST speed boards for this route? The only section ever likely to have seen a HST will be Oxford to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[InTheEastMids]

While speeds are very good on the MML non stop services south of Leicester have to slow down for the curves through Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough to well under 100mph.

Luton is the other location that springs to mind where the train slows noticeably for a curve, and then the reverse curves between Airport and Harpenden also feel well below 125.

There's some pretty normal locations to lose time due to other traffic.
Heading South, it's quite common in my experience to slow or even come to a stand around Harpenden whilst a TL service crosses to the fast lines, stops at St Albans and gets going again.
Heading North, being slowed up by the TL stopping at St Albans and then crossing to the DS is also pretty common. Secondly, if the XX15 Corby has picked up any delay, it'll often get caught by the XX32 Sheffield and the XX35 Nottingham as it stops in Wellingborough P1