More Daily Mail Madness ...

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SS4

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In other words it's not worth the time or effort. As for the link I don't want my browser history tainted lol
 

Tomnick

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Funnily enough, I stumbled across that story a few minutes ago whilst looking for something else - and the headline then was 'train delayed for an hour'!
 

tsr

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For once, I have actually bothered to read this piece of [word omitted for etiquette purposes]. I found this paraphrase of a comment from a commuter:

She said that once on the train ... nobody came round to check their tickets, meaning the guard was ‘redundant’.

Oh dear.
 

CosherB

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Minilad

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You could do that here if you like. The article says a train was delayed because the guard was having a meal break. If that's true, it shows a dreadful service ethic. If it's not true, can you tell us what really happened?

Trolling again I see Captain. You can't expect us to believe you don't understand the issue here
 

ralphchadkirk

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You could do that here if you like. The article says a train was delayed because the guard was having a meal break. If that's true, it shows a dreadful service ethic. If it's not true, can you tell us what really happened?

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what the real world is like, or you're just trolling. Personally I think both.
 

ainsworth74

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The article says a train was delayed because the guard was having a meal break. If that's true, it shows a dreadful service ethic. If it's not true, can you tell us what really happened?

Personal Needs Breaks and the like are part of the contract and more importantly guards and drivers have to take breaks they're only to be doing their jobs uninterrupted for a certain length of time, and it's a legal requirement that they take breaks (same as it is with lorry drivers). The likelihood is that if the guard had taken the train out straight away rather than eating his dinner he would have been breaking the law.

However, that does not make for a good headline so it's far better to say that the guard effectively told the commuters to 'sod off' rather than allow for the possibility that he didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
 

Bellwater

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We have some breaks booked to be taken on/near the train.. Always amusing to see the faces staring into the goldfish bowl, as it were.

To be fair to commuters its usually the Foreigners who bang on the window with the most obvious question.
 

Grantham

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Sounds more like an "entitlement" than a "requirement". Can't the railway company factor meal breaks into a shift?

Really, if anything, it sounds like office politics. For example, one of the ways our roster clerks get us to work outside our entitlements is to change the shift into an overtime shift or give you an early finish for a later sign off...you get paid extra to work outside your work advice period or forgo a meal break, sort fair enough if you so choose. If they insist, and you simply lose a meal break altogether, or are advised for work outside the call period, then it sould be no wonder for a good worker to jack up and teach them that he or she won't be pushed around outside the existing work agreements.

And holding up fifty passengers is chicken feed. Most rail workers have held up thousands of passengers at a time, and closed whole lines for hours at a time! ;)
 

ralphchadkirk

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It is a requirement Grantham. In the UK there are a number of rules that must be followed to ensure safety critical staff get proper breaks. Another guard *should* have been available, but unfortunately SET's roster department for whatever reason did not have one.
 

Minilad

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Its nothing to do with office politics. Its to do with not breaking the law.
There are laid down parameters with regards to breaks. If the guard had broke them and something had happened on that journey then he would have been in big trouble.
One of the first questions asked after an incident is have the required PNB been taken
 

Bellwater

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And holding up fifty passengers is chicken feed. Most rail workers have held up thousands of passengers at a time, and closed whole lines for hours at a time! ;)

I once delayed a train so much(hour late, pnb would have gone over safe working hours, took pnb at home depot)it had to be cancelled and run under a different head code...
 

ralphchadkirk

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Its nothing to do with office politics. Its to do with not breaking the law.
There are laid down parameters with regards to breaks. If the guard had broke them and something had happened on that journey then he would have been in big trouble.
One of the first questions asked after an incident is have the required PNB been taken

There has been quite a fuss over working hours and fatigue at the moment I understand after that Shap incident.
 

Hydro

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We have some breaks booked to be taken on/near the train.. Always amusing to see the faces staring into the goldfish bowl, as it were.


All our PNB's are booked to be on the train, it's just down to timings/ops as to where they are. Every train that we operate must have working messing facilities for this purpose. We have certain criteria that must be met with regards to how long, and how many PNB's are required for a given shift length.

The breaks in stations are good, as sometimes a good cook up is got going and we can sit around the tables and actually have a sit down meal; it makes a few folk look twice.

PNB's are there for a reason. It's not just for ****s and giggles taken at a whim.
 

Grantham

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There has been quite a fuss over working hours and fatigue at the moment I understand after that Shap incident.

I have no idea what happened at Shap.

Working hours and fatigue are a constant issue in a country that is thousands of miles wide! Let me be the first to assure you that I work a lot of nights, and I understand the problems. Everyone is different, and while I like working nights, I recognise that not everyone does. I also think that some thought should go into how much one likes working nights before one undertakes a career in the rail industry.

*However*

The point at issue is this bloke was having a feed that I imagine he was entitled to, whether enshrined in legislation or not, otherwise the headline would have been "Starving Railway Guard Sacked For Delaying Train" :p

If he wasn't entitled to that break, this thread would already be quite different.

And frankly, if a rule says you *must* stop to eat, it's a crock of [email protected]#!. It's like being given a certain period of the day when it is legislated that you will be hungry, and will eat. That should go right up there with the legislation against frost. :roll:
 

Minilad

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PNB's are there for a reason. It's not just for ****s and giggles taken at a whim.

Come on now.
Everyone knows we just have PNBs when and where we feel like it just to be customer unfriendly.
Don't we Captain ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The rule isn't that you must eat. But there are set restrictions on how long you work before taking a break. And how long the break shall be. You don't have to eat during the break if you don't want to. But you do have to take a break
 

moonrakerz

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You could do that here if you like. The article says a train was delayed because the guard was having a meal break. If that's true, it shows a dreadful service ethic. If it's not true, can you tell us what really happened?

I note that a lot of vitriol was poured on Captain Speaking before someone actually condescended to actually answer his question.

If it was a legal requirement, rather than someone being "bloody minded", why didn't someone say so ? OR - was it easier, and more fun, to wind-up people trying to get home.

At times I wonder how many noms-de-plume Bob Crow uses on this site ..........................
 

Hydro

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And frankly, if a rule says you *must* stop to eat, it's a crock of [email protected]#!. It's like being given a certain period of the day when it is legislated that you will be hungry, and will eat. That should go right up there with the legislation against frost. :roll:

It's not like that at all, it's not purely for a meal break. PNB is a break from duties. Time to eat, ****, sit down, and refresh yourself.
 

Minilad

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I note that a lot of vitriol was poured on Captain Speaking before someone actually condescended to actually answer his question.

If it was a legal requirement, rather than someone being "bloody minded", why didn't someone say so ? OR - was it easier, and more fun, to wind-up people trying to get home.

At times I wonder how many noms-de-plume Bob Crowe uses on this site ..........................

Where was the winding up ?
They were obviously told the reason that the train couldn't move. But chose to make a few stupid and frankly embarrassing comments to a newspaper instead of accepting that the train could not move until the guard had finished his legally required rest period.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Where was the winding up ?
They were obviously told the reason that the train couldn't move. But chose to make a few stupid and frankly embarrassing comments to a newspaper instead of accepting that the train could not move until the guard had finished his legally required rest period.

I'm sure they (the commuters) would be the first to complain if an email interrupted their lunch hour.
 

Minilad

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I'm sure they (the commuters) would be the first to complain if an email interrupted their lunch hour.

No. I am guessing they are the sort of people that let their bosses walk all over them and work all hours god sends even when not being paid. Then have the temerity to criticise people who still have some rights and conditions in their workplace. Put there for very good reason
 
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I note that a lot of vitriol was poured on Captain Speaking before someone actually condescended to actually answer his question.

If it was a legal requirement, rather than someone being "bloody minded", why didn't someone say so ? OR - was it easier, and more fun, to wind-up people trying to get home.

Fair point but its very likley the Daily Mail knew it was a legal requirement yet still ran the story making them just as bad.
 
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So how are Eurostar Train Managers and Drivers able to arrive on a late running inbound train and hop off the inbound service and take their outbound service out straight away? I've seen this happen in the space of less than three minutes between arrival and departure many times. This nonsense at Ashford - even allowing for the Daily Mail's version - shows sheer bloody mindedness.
 

Minilad

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So how are Eurostar Train Managers and Drivers able to arrive on a late running inbound train and hop off the inbound service and take their outbound service out straight away? I've seen this happen in the space of less than three minutes between arrival and departure many times. This nonsense at Ashford - even allowing for the Daily Mail's version - shows sheer bloody mindedness.

You have seen a Eurostar service arrive and depart within 3 minutes using the same crew ? I have to say I find that very hard to believe
 

ralphchadkirk

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So how are Eurostar Train Managers and Drivers able to arrive on a late running inbound train and hop off the inbound service and take their outbound service out straight away? I've seen this happen in the space of less than three minutes between arrival and departure many times. This nonsense at Ashford - even allowing for the Daily Mail's version - shows sheer bloody mindedness.

Because they haven't got a rostered PNB then per chance?
 

Pumbaa

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Before we start beating each other up again and sniggering at the Captain or whoever, put yourself in commuters shoes. They don't know any better or that a PNB is a requirement. All they see is a member of staff who, it could be argued, could have a break in his cab. They don't understand it's a 'safety critical role'.

It's getting worse and worse on here each day.
 

Minilad

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Before we start beating each other up again and sniggering at the Captain or whoever, put yourself in commuters shoes. They don't know any better or that a PNB is a requirement. All they see is a member of staff who, it could be argued, could have a break in his cab. They don't understand it's a 'safety critical role'.

It's getting worse and worse on here each day.

Thats fair enough. But its obvious from some of the quotes that they were told the situation but chose to make a mountain out of a molehill about it.
And I am pretty sure the DM would know the legal ins and outs but choose to run the inflammatory story anyway.
Some people will listen to what is told them. Others will make stuff up anyway.
Seems a lot of people on here don't listen to what is told them
 
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