More SailRail questions

[181]

I realise that there are two other current threads on travel to/from Ireland, but they're a bit too specific for this, and mine from last year is now closed, so I'm starting a new one to ask a few questions (which may be relevant to other people as well as me), and provide information on what I've found so far when trying to book SailRail tickets, in case it's useful to anyone else. It seems as usual that these tickets aren't as easy to book as they should be.

Does anyone know how to book through tickets to Irish destinations via Fishguard and Rosslare? Or was their reintroduction last year just a short-lived experiment? I tried 3 websites (RailEasy, the Trainline and Arriva Trains Wales), and none offered a ticket beyond Rosslare. I also looked on BRfares.com and it didn't show any fares for the route I wanted. The phone number for SailRail bookings given on Seat61 turned out to be the general Arriva Wales booking number (possibly outsourced to the Trainline, judging from the introductory message) and their system said that no tickets were available to Dublin via this route; and the ticket office at Reading station (where the clerk seemed moderately familiar with selling tickets to Ireland) couldn't do it either. The one thing I didn't try was the Stena phone booking service.

In the end I used Reading station to book a ticket to Rosslare, and bought an online ticket for the journey from Rosslare to Dublin the next morning. This actually works out slightly cheaper than a through ticket would have been, and with only a few trains per day between Rosslare and Dublin, being restricted to a particular one isn't much of an inconvenience; but it would have been marginally simpler to make just one booking, and I would have liked to send a signal to the authorities that there's a demand for such journeys.

Looking about a week before the date of travel, none of the websites offered an Advance ticket to Rosslare. The Reading booking clerk was expecting there to be one, but it didn't come up in the system -- is it likely that Advances would have sold out, or is this another problem with the booking system? (It's not a great problem for me as I was planning to ask for a Standby ticket anyway, to give me the freedom to catch an earlier train to Swansea to be sure of making the connection).

On the 'seat selection' page that you get when booking a ticket on the Irish Rail website I didn't notice any indication of which way the train would be travelling. Is there a rule or pattern to this? (coach A was at the top if that helps).

I'm thinking of returning via the Belfast-Liverpool route. The Trainline, to which the Stena website redirects you for SailRail bookings, didn't show any journeys via this route, just one via Dublin. I e-mailed Stena, and they said that the only way to buy SailRail tickets for the Liverpool route from them was to do so at least a week beforehand so they can be posted out -- you can't buy them, or pick up pre-booked tickets, at Belfast or any other port. They didn't answer my question about whether they can sell them to any UK station or only a limited list.

SailRail tickets via Belfast-Liverpool (in both directions) do appear on BRfares.com, so I wonder whether a booking office would be able to sell tickets to or even from Belfast (albeit without a cabin, as Seat61 warns).

A positive finding is that ferry-only fares on this route appear to be cheaper than Seat61 indicates: £20 by day and £30 by night, not £30 and £45. Reasonably-priced Advance tickets for my onward journey from Birkenhead still appear to be available on quite a wide choice of trains, so this might be a satisfactory alternative -- I just need to decide how long I need to allow to get to the station.

Does anyone know what the Belfast-Liverpool boat is like for sleeping on without a cabin? They don't sell individual berths, and I'm not inclined to pay £55 for a cabin to myself, especially as I'd have to leave it at 6 a.m., but I might pay £20 to upgrade to the Stena Plus lounge.

 

[TUC]

I've tried sleeping on Belfast-Liverpool without a cabin. The main issue I found were that , as its an older ship, there are fewer comfortable long seats to stretch out on. Also, the area was packed with bar users until late so, although its doable, its nowhere near as comfortable as Belfast-Cairnryan.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know how to book through tickets to Irish destinations via Fishguard and Rosslare?

It's possible to purchase tickets to Dublin via Rosslare but it took quite some doing. As you found out, given that the web fare to Dublin is €9, it's not worth spending a lot of time and effort to get the through ticket. When I was there in March there wasn't a ticket machine at Rosslare, but they said that it is planned for 'Summer 2014'. I've since been told that you can show the guard a printout of your booking confirmation and she/he will give you your ticket.

Looking about a week before the date of travel, none of the websites offered an Advance ticket to Rosslare. The Reading booking clerk was expecting there to be one, but it didn't come up in the system -- is it likely that Advances would have sold out, or is this another problem with the booking system?

It seems to be a problem with the booking system, I was looking online yesterday for a Dundee-Belfast via Liverpool ticket and the websites just wouldn't spit it out. I know it's possible as I did the same journey last week, my suspicion is that it's something to do with the new timetable coming out.

I'm thinking of returning via the Belfast-Liverpool route. The Trainline, to which the Stena website redirects you for SailRail bookings, didn't show any journeys via this route, just one via Dublin. I e-mailed Stena, and they said that the only way to buy SailRail tickets for the Liverpool route from them was to do so at least a week beforehand so they can be posted out -- you can't buy them, or pick up pre-booked tickets, at Belfast or any other port. They didn't answer my question about whether they can sell them to any UK station or only a limited list.


SailRail tickets via Belfast-Liverpool (in both directions) do appear on BRfares.com, so I wonder whether a booking office would be able to sell tickets to or even from Belfast (albeit without a cabin, as Seat61 warns).

Since it's a valid fare (it shows up on TheTrainLine.com if you choose the 'See other fares' option) then you should be able to buy the standby/off-peak ticket at a booking office, even if they can't do reservations. It should be possible to buy online (at least via Trainline-powered websites) because I managed it for last Saturday (in the Liverpool-Belfast direction). I've also been able to get the return journey to show up once as well though it did take some manipulation. I had to set the departure time to an hour before the ferry departure time, and set a 'Travel via' point of Birkenhead Hamilton Square.

I just need to decide how long I need to allow to get to the station.

In the Liverpool-Belfast direction check in opens about 2 hours before the ferry departs, I imagine it is the same in the opposite direction. Liverpool Lime Street to Birkenhead Hamilton Square is about 7 minutes, and Stena put on a free bus between Hamilton Square and the port, or it's a 20 minute walk.

Does anyone know what the Belfast-Liverpool boat is like for sleeping on without a cabin? They don't sell individual berths, and I'm not inclined to pay £55 for a cabin to myself, especially as I'd have to leave it at 6 a.m., but I might pay £20 to upgrade to the Stena Plus lounge.

I did Stena Plus and it's definitely worth it just for the fact that it's a little less busy and you get drinks (soft drinks and wine) and nibbles included. On an eight-hour sailing you definitely appreciate it. Other than that, the seats are quite comfortable and if you're not too tall you can turn two of them to face each other and get a nice kip.

 

[Hadders]

Irish Rail web fares can be amended to allow travel on any train for a payment of EUR10.

This was certainly the case earlier this year.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I did a day and a night crossing on the Liverpool to Belfast ferry earlier this month. There were very few passengers both times. I had a cabin in both directions and Stenna Plus on the day crossing. I was on expenses. The main lounge also serves as a bar/cafeteria and had televisions playing. Often different channels on different screens with the sound competing. I cannot say if they close the bar and turn off the televisions to allow people to sleep. There is a second lounge that serves as a coffee shop. Again with competing televisions. I think most of the seating there was individual seats. Not ideal for sleeping. There is also a cinema which had a late evening show. Gravity was showing on my crossing. There was no quiet room of reclining seats that I was expecting from other ferries.

Stenna Plus is a sectioned off part of the main lounge. A key pad lock is used to access the lounge. For me the snacks, coffee, tea, canned drinks and wine could have more than covered the cost of the service. Far more substantial than Virgin or FGW First Class lounges. Stenna Plus was empty with only three other passengers.

I had my car and check in was 2 1/2 to 1 hours before departure. Boarding was 11/2 hours before departure. Facility at the ports are quite limited. A waiting room, toilets and vending machine for drinks.

I enjoyed both my crossings. The view of the Liverpool waterfront from the ferry terminal was a real bonus

Beat wishes, Stephen.

 

[bkhtele]

Cabin is well worth it for a good nights sleep, think you can buy on board if not busy & might be a standby price.

Buying rail sail ticket is a challenge as you know. Experienced clerks seem to sell the ticket + the ferry reservation. Then they go back in and make the train reservations (for non advanced tickets).

Suggest you buy the return from Belfast from Stena & collect at Belfast terminal.
You could try Scotrail telesales in Fortwilliam, they were great selling me the Cairnryan ticket with sensible train reservations, they should be able to sell the Liverpool ticket, which currently seems missing from the various online systems

 

[mister-sparky]

I'm using a RailSail from Limerick to London next month through Irish Ferries website. Theirs are only valid from Ireland as theirs are RailSail TO Britain. Don't know about Stena or any others.

 

[181]

Thankyou everyone for the replies.

It's possible to purchase tickets to Dublin via Rosslare but it took quite some doing. As you found out, given that the web fare to Dublin is €9, it's not worth spending a lot of time and effort to get the through ticket. When I was there in March there wasn't a ticket machine at Rosslare, but they said that it is planned for 'Summer 2014'. I've since been told that you can show the guard a printout of your booking confirmation and she/he will give you your ticket.

Out of curiosity (rather than because I need to), how do you get tickets to Dublin via Rosslare?

The Irish Rail webpage for Rosslare Europort says 'Ticket Vending Machine(s): No, will be available WK December 9th', but it's not clear which December is meant. The booking confirmation e-mail says 'Tickets can be collected from ticket vending machines or at the booking office. If neither are available, please board the train with this email and collect your ticket at the destination station', so I should be OK.

(it shows up on TheTrainLine.com if you choose the 'See other fares' option)

When I clicked on that option, various fares came up, including routes via Dublin, Liverpool and Cairnryan, but most of them, including all the Liverpool ones, said 'NA' when I clicked on them. In the end I bought a ferry-only ticket (plus Stena Plus upgrade) and an Advance for my train journey, which came to only a few pounds more than if I'd been able to get a through ticket. Note though that the Stena website charges £5 for payment by credit card.

 

[najaB]

Out of curiosity (rather than because I need to), how do you get tickets to Dublin via Rosslare?

It was a real faff to get it to show up, I'm not even sure that it was supposed to! I didn't actually click into buy it so it may actually have been a combination of tickets with some random routing - e.g. two ferry crossings.

When I clicked on that option, various fares came up, including routes via Dublin, Liverpool and Cairnryan, but most of them, including all the Liverpool ones, said 'NA' when I clicked on them.

That's my experience as well. The fact that it shows up in the list means that it's a valid route, but the system isn't seeing any availability. I got it to work once or twice, and actually bought the ticket but it couldn't get *any* seat reservations despite the trains being quite lightly loaded.

 

[Eire Sprinter]

The last train out of Rosslare Europort was retimed from 17.55 to 18.35 (daily inc. Sunday) starting yesterday and continuing for the Summer.

The through tickets are available on the ATW website and probably other portals too.

The base of the ticket vending machine has been in situ at the entrance to the platform to Rosslare Europort for a number of months but the machine isn't installed yet. (The December on the website refers to 2013).

No problem with printing the e-mail confirmation and carrying it as your ticket - have done same myself.

I fully agree with your point regarding buying the through ticket when possible in that it sends a signal to the authorities that there's a demand for such journeys.

Hope you have an enjoyable journey.

 

[Thewanderer]

On the 'seat selection' page that you get when booking a ticket on the Irish Rail website I didn't notice any indication of which way the train would be travelling. Is there a rule or pattern to this? (coach A was at the top if that helps).

On the 22000 Class DMU's coach A always defaults to the A1 (5 car set only. Vehicle 221xx) or A2 vehicle (3 or 4 car set. Vehicle 222xx). Therefore which way the set is facing is unknown as the set could face North or South. There are a couple of diagrams in the 3 car fleet where the sets are turned during the course of the day. While not scheduled this can happen to the 4 and 5 car fleets as well if the situation requires it.

For a 4 + 3 car formation A B C D will default to the 4 car set. If the A3 car is at the end of the formation then that will default to coach A. For booked 3 + 4 formations coaches A D E G (driving cars) should only have 36 seats for online sale as the A2 and A3 vehicles have different seating layouts, the 36 seats available online being common to both types of vehicle.

For 3+3 or 4+4 it depends on which way the sun, the moon and the earth are aligned!

Irish Rail web fares can be amended to allow travel on any train for a payment of EUR10.

This was certainly the case earlier this year.

This is still the case.

 

[181]

The last train out of Rosslare Europort was retimed from 17.55 to 18.35 (daily inc. Sunday) starting yesterday and continuing for the Summer.

The through tickets are available on the ATW website and probably other portals too.

I've just tried the ATW site, giving the date and time of travel as the evening of 13th June (a fortnight after my actual journey), and it came up with a through ticket to Dublin Connolly for the overnight journey -- I'm sure it wasn't doing that a fortnight ago. It still only gave the standby option, though -- but when I changed the origin to Cardiff it did give the Advance option as well. When I changed the departure time to try and get it to come up with the daytime journey, it still said that no journeys were available -- perhaps the ATW system doesn't yet use the revised Irish timetable, or considers 35 minutes an inadequate connection time at Rosslare.

By the way, the overnight journey via Fishguard seems to involve much less hanging around than at Holyhead -- I think I was on the boat within less than half an hour of the arrival of the train.

No problem with printing the e-mail confirmation and carrying it as your ticket - have done same myself.

When I showed my e-mail to the guard he wrote down the reference number and came back a few minutes later having printed out a ticket. I never found out whether I'd been correct in my guess as to which way round the train was on the seat selection page of the booking website, as it turned out to be a commuter d.m.u. without seat numbers or reservations instead of an Inter-City one (I presume that this isn't usually the case).

On my journey back via Belfast, I paid £8.50 for a taxi to the terminal from the centre of Belfast. There is a bus service of sorts (http://journeyplanner.translink.co.uk/web/TTB/20140605-160253/nir/15096Amja_TP.pdf), but except on weekday mornings, it doesn't appear to connect very well with Liverpool sailings; looking at Google Maps, I'd guess it might be about half an hour's walk from/to a road with a more frequent service.

The included-in-the-price food and drink in the Stena Plus lounge was welcome. It's hard to say how much more sleep I got for my money. Not all the seats were suitable for sleeping, but as there was only one other person spending the night there I was able to swivel two of the armchairs to face each other and get horizontal (it wasn't as good as the sofa in the first class lounge that I once used from Portsmouth to Le Havre, though). The TVs are turned off at night so you're not disturbed by them, although I was vaguely conscious of someone hoovering round me in the small hours. The main saloon areas seemed to have a reasonable number of long seats on which you could stretch out; I don't know how much competition for them there is.

Although I didn't do this, it occurred to me that a scenic alternative route from Birkenhead to central Liverpool would have been to turn right out of the Stena terminal and get the Mersey Ferry from the terminal at Seacombe, which doesn't look much further away than Hamilton Square station; at weekday peak times there is a crossing every 20 minutes to the Liverpool waterfront, from where it's not too far to walk to Lime Street.
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I forgot to mention this: A notice at Dublin Connolly said that SailRail tickets can be bought from the booking office there, but only at certain times: 09.45-12.30 and 14.30-16.30 Mon-Sat, and 11.30-15.30 Sun.

 

[Flying Snail]

By the way, the overnight journey via Fishguard seems to involve much less hanging around than at Holyhead -- I think I was on the boat within less than half an hour of the arrival of the train.

That's because the Fishguards are still proper connecting trains run specifically to cater for ferry passengers.

At Holyhead the opposite is the case ATW/Virgin have over the last 10 years extended the wait times and eventually cancelled the night connection from ferry arrivals and IMO have been purposely timing their inbound trains to miss connections.

 

[181]

I think it helps that you can walk onto the boat at Fishguard rather than waiting for a shuttle bus that doesn't seem to leave until the last minute (presumably so they only have to do one run).

I've sometimes wondered why there is an 02.15 arrival at Holyhead. I don't think it's in time to be an official connection for the boat, but I can't think that there are many people who would want to arrive in Holyhead at that hour other than to catch a boat. I wonder whether maybe the franchise obliges ATW to run a train at about that time because that's when the boat train used to be, but doesn't specify that it actually has to make a connection.

 

[bkhtele]

"I forgot to mention this: A notice at Dublin Connolly said that SailRail tickets can be bought from the booking office there, but only at certain times: 09.45-12.30 and 14.30-16.30 Mon-Sat, and 11.30-15.30 Sun"

Thanks 181 this is useful to know, I haven't been brave enough to wait until my return to purchase my ticket, I guess if all fails it can be purchased at the ferry terminal.

I did try & buy (I already had a ticket but wanted to see how easy it was) the Rosslare ticket in Belfast (translink/NIR) but they said they couldn't sell it!

Interestingly they wouldn't sell the 3.30pm ferry ticket to London, as they said Scotrail at the time were not allowing passengers to take the overnight sleeper. I suspect this is because no advanced sleeper reservations had been made.

Glad you had a good trip

 

[Flying Snail]

I think it helps that you can walk onto the boat at Fishguard rather than waiting for a shuttle bus that doesn't seem to leave until the last minute (presumably so they only have to do one run).

Essentially yes, they will only run the shuttles once. In the case of Stena they put them on the ferry and they cross over to be used in Dublin so they cannot do a second run anyway.

Check-in times are the same 30mns on both routes but it is true that with the gangway they do have a bit more flexibility, in Holyhead they will open check-in near to the 30mns get everyone checked in one go, close it and send off the shuttles and that's it.

I've sometimes wondered why there is an 02.15 arrival at Holyhead. I don't think it's in time to be an official connection for the boat, but I can't think that there are many people who would want to arrive in Holyhead at that hour other than to catch a boat. I wonder whether maybe the franchise obliges ATW to run a train at about that time because that's when the boat train used to be, but doesn't specify that it actually has to make a connection.

That is the one, up to around 2005-06 that train was always a specific connection to the overnight ferries. The times changed around but there was always a Crewe departure around the 23.30-00.00 mark for the ferry traffic.

Back to FNW days, the ferry was a little later at 03.00 with the 23.59 from Crewe scheduled to arrive in HHD at 02.10 with a generous 36 min running time Bangor-HHD.

In the winter 2006 timetable however all has changed, the ferry is 20mns earlier at 02.40 and the ATW Crewe departure is now at 00.02 scheduled to arrive in HHD at 02.30 with a now ridiculous 56 min running time Bangor-HHD

On sunday nights this train departs Crewe 25 minutes later at 00.26 but arrive at HHD earlier at 02.26 A journey time that if applied to the weekday departure would give a connection to the ferry.

This same extended journey time has been kept for this train ever since, currently it sits in Chester for 15 minutes and is 20 minutes slower than other trains with the same stopping pattern on the route.

For some reason this train which is a much later service than most routes across the country have the only reason for which can be as a ferry connection has continued to run for 8 years intentionally timed to miss that connection.

It makes no sense and means that ferry passengers have an even longer journey time with an unpleasant fester at Holyhead with few facilities in the early hours of the morning.

 

[CallySleeper]

I did try & buy (I already had a ticket but wanted to see how easy it was) the Rosslare ticket in Belfast (translink/NIR) but they said they couldn't sell it!

Surprising, did they say why?

Interestingly they wouldn't sell the 3.30pm ferry ticket to London, as they said Scotrail at the time were not allowing passengers to take the overnight sleeper. I suspect this is because no advanced sleeper reservations had been made.

This isn't the case. It is perfectly possible to leave Belfast on the 3.30 and travel to London on the Sleeper. The problem is that while you can do so in seated accommodation for no additional charge, if you want a bed then you have to pay a supplement (£43.10) which whoever you bought the ticket from might not have been able to do.

I'd like to point out that Belfast tickets, including those connecting onto the sleeper can be bought from ScotRail's website very easily, using 'Belfast Ni' as the origin/destination. You also have the option of buying sleeper supplements if you request a reservation on the sleeper.

 

[181]

Essentially yes, they will only run the shuttles once.

When I departed from Holyhead on the Irish Ferries daytime sailing a couple of years ago I think the shuttle ran at least twice if not more times -- I was pleasantly surprised by how many rail + sea passengers there were on that occasion. I just missed one run and had a bit of a wait, but it doesn't matter much during the day -- at night you want to maximise sleeping time on board!

I remembered another point about the Belfast route: take some identification, even if you're not visiting the Republic. I wasn't asked to provide any to board the boat in Belfast (though I seem to remember a notice mentioning it), but I was surprised to be checked when disembarking at Birkenhead. I suppose it's logical given that you need ID to visit the Republic and the Irish border is completely open, but I'm sure some in Northern Ireland would object to what feels like an immigration check when entering another part of the UK.

I see that Stena's website, talking about Irish Sea routes in general, says 'A driving licence, citizenship card or utility bill will usually suffice', which suggests that it doesn't have to be something with a photo.

 

[CallySleeper]

I remembered another point about the Belfast route: take some identification, even if you're not visiting the Republic. I wasn't asked to provide any to board the boat in Belfast (though I seem to remember a notice mentioning it)

I was once by a police officer. I had my passport on me as standard, but I think the person in front of me had a debit card which he happily accepted. There's also police in Cairnryan (both coming and going) but they don't stop everyone. It's slightly more relaxed than in Holyhead where police check everyone.

 

[bkhtele]

I did try & buy the Rosslare ticket to Swindon from Belfast at Translink/Nir Belfast

The explaination they gave me was that they couldn't find either a ticket from Belfast or Dublin on their system to Rosslare.

Yes for Cairnryan the Scotrail site is good including the Sleeper. For more flexibility with reservation Scotrail telesales in Fortwilliam are excellent in getting you exactly the services you want.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was once by a police officer. I had my passport on me as standard, but I think the person in front of me had a debit card which he happily accepted. There's also police in Cairnryan (both coming and going) but they don't stop everyone. It's slightly more relaxed than in Holyhead where police check everyone.

When I travelled last week there were no ID checks at either port in both directions. The signs are still displayed so obviously having some ID is sensible.

Security at Cairnryan since they got their fancy equipment is just like an airport. I left my belt on deliberately & yes an extra scan was required. Getting more like irritating airports, I wonder how they will scan my car & family next time I drive on the ferry?

I do agree with sniffer dogs & spot checks but all this does is make quick connections difficult.