Most boring preserved railway?

[bramling]

Concerning a possible "most boring preserved line of all" -- am wondering whether any participants here, have ever visited the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway? I have not, and have no plans or wish to; cannot help but regard what I can find out about it, as pointing to its being in assorted aspects, an extremely limited -- and potentially extremely boring -- outfit.

With no first-hand experience of the line: I don't totally rule out the possibility of its being of more interest than would -- as above -- appear likely. This railway is brought to mind here, by a paragraph in Mike Parker's book Map Addict. The section of the book involved, deals with various aspects of the Ordnance Survey map which includes north Lincolnshire -- the author (not a railway enthusiast as such) has not visited the line: but clearly reckons it likely to be an absurdly and despicably petty affair; and uses it, with waspish wit, as an exemplar of many such up and down the country. He writes: "In terms of the map, the fact that these pointless excuses for both railways and tourist attractions are shown with exactly the same symbology as a real railway, connecting real places, is something that pains me to see on a modern OS." While my gut feeling on this, very much aligns with the author's; have also in my head -- in contrast -- the notion that such savage "rubbishing" without having in person visited the thing, is perhaps not altogether appropriate.

I visited in 2019 during a 1940s weekend. Quite good to be fair. We knew we were never going to be clocking up a massive track mileage, but some of the other stuff made up for that.

The greyness/spoil is why they are on that train, what are they expecting when travelling on a railway built for and a town dominated by a slate industry that has all but disappeared? Those that aren't there just for trains use it as a base for the Mountains and natural attractions.

I suspect there’s an element of overestimating people with the above! A lot of people have no idea about the history of places they visit, seemingly the most important features are the cafe and toilets (and in some cases the kids playground).

People will go on something like the Ffestiniog because it’s there and it’s something to do. Perhaps they picked up a leaflet, or perhaps someone else drew their attention.

 

[Runningaround]

Llecwedd Slate Caverns and the former Gloddfa Ganol used to be big tourist attractions and buses did link them to the FR station. Unfortunately Gloddfa Ganol went back to just being a working quarry when it changed hands with no visitors allowed. Llechwedd still operates but is now very into thrill expeditions though the deep level mine train apparently still operates and surface tours to the upper parts of the quarry are offered. However, I have not been there fore many years. Scrapping the mine tramway and installing trampolines and zip wires underground is a big turn off for me.

BUT in saying that - one would think that for casual visitors it would prove attractive.

Don't forget in the heady days when the FR returned to Blaenau provision was made in the infrastructure to run a branch line from the station to the foot of the Llechwedd Incline to provide access to Llechwedd Quarry. That is why there is an unused bridge arch and a second unused track at Glanypwll Level Crossing.

Zip World is an antidote for kids having to put up with parents boring trips on slow trains. They will forget the train trip fairly quickly but flying over a Quarry I doubt.
I'd much rather see a Quarry re-opening, employing locals in well paid rewarding year round jobs rather than be reliant on summer visitors than being a tourist attraction open four months a year run by unpaid volunteers.
The Heritage attractions are mostly volunteer ran so aren't directly employing locals, perhaps if it paid more staff it'd be looked on more favourably by locals who don't see much benefit directly other than cafes, hotels and craft shops.

 

[Parham Wood]

That it's historically important does not make it a nice or pleasant place. Preston Bus Station is historically important but is an ugly 1960s carbuncle, for example, and in the wrong location to boot.



They're slate, admittedly, but it is a dump. It's run-down, small-town Wales, poor and with limited prospects, "10 pints and a fight on a Saturday night" territory, just like the grim, half-boarded-up ex-mining towns that dot about the Valleys but without Cardiff's strong economy to at least get some locals into decent work. The only things it has going for it are the termini of the FfR and Conwy Valley Line and the Co-op which comes in handy if having to spend any significant amount of time there. Grey and depressing.

Were it not for the railways nobody would ever go there.

BF is much better than it was a few years back. Zip World the underground slate mines fun experiences have brought in a lot of money and employment, with more houses looking cared for. It is definitely smarter now but nowhere near perfect. It looks reasonable in sun but in the frequent rain the greyness of the whole place and surrounding slate industry makes it a dull and uninviting place.

 

[Mikw]

Wouldn’t want to use the word Boring but I’m not a big fan of the Nene Valley, time does seem to slow down a bit there, everything seems to be based about using Wansford but the stations the other side of the A1.
Peterborough end could really do with some sort of direct connection to the mainline station rather than the massive walk it entails.
There’s some interesting stuff there but as I say I find it a bit ‘meh’

On the plus side "Octopussy" was filmed there!

 

[Llanigraham]

The Fairbourne railway and the Evesham Vale Light Railway both have constructed tunnels with fake hills above them. Evesham Vale is Breeze blocks with concrete beams for the roof. Buy the bits for your tunnel at B & Q!!!

The tunnel on the Fairbourne was constructed partly to alleviate a problem with sand being blown over the line, so did have a use more than decoration.

 

[D6968]

On the plus side "Octopussy" was filmed there!

I’ve never seen Maud Adams doing her shopping Peterborough though!

 

[Alanko]

Concerning a possible "most boring preserved line of all" -- am wondering whether any participants here, have ever visited the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway? I have not, and have no plans or wish to; cannot help but regard what I can find out about it, as pointing to its being in assorted aspects, an extremely limited -- and potentially extremely boring -- outfit.

It's ticking a few too many of the wrong boxes for me. 1.5 miles of dead straight track with a start and end point in the middle of nowhere. A diminutive industrial steam engine pulling mk2s that were maroon at some point. A couple of sidings stuffed with derelict rolling stock 'waiting in the queue'. The majority of locomotives out of use, so clearly a hoarding mentality of "at least it's preserved" going on. Wildly ambitious plans to extend the length tenfold.

They even have that pinnacle of the dismal: a big Scandinavian steam loco that somebody probably bought for buttons in the '80s then left to rot.

 

[Calthrop]

Concerning a possible "most boring preserved line of all" -- am wondering whether any participants here, have ever visited the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway? I have not, and have no plans or wish to; cannot help but regard what I can find out about it, as pointing to its being in assorted aspects, an extremely limited -- and potentially extremely boring -- outfit.

With no first-hand experience of the line: I don't totally rule out the possibility of its being of more interest than would -- as above -- appear likely. This railway is brought to mind here, by a paragraph in Mike Parker's book Map Addict. The section of the book involved, deals with various aspects of the Ordnance Survey map which includes north Lincolnshire -- the author (not a railway enthusiast as such) has not visited the line: but clearly reckons it likely to be an absurdly and despicably petty affair; and uses it, with waspish wit, as an exemplar of many such up and down the country. He writes: "In terms of the map, the fact that these pointless excuses for both railways and tourist attractions are shown with exactly the same symbology as a real railway, connecting real places, is something that pains me to see on a modern OS." While my gut feeling on this, very much aligns with the author's; have also in my head -- in contrast -- the notion that such savage "rubbishing" without having in person visited the thing, is perhaps not altogether appropriate.

Thanks for responses.

@bramling writes: "I visited in 2019 during a 1940s weekend. Quite good to be fair. We knew we were never going to be clocking up a massive track mileage, but some of the other stuff made up for that."

@Alanko writes: It's ticking a few too many of the wrong boxes for me. 1.5 m. of dead straight track with a start and end point in the middle of nowhere. A diminutive industrial steam engine pulling mk2s that were maroon at some point. A couple of sidings stuffed with derelict rolling stock 'waiting in the queue'. The majority of locomotives out of use, so clearly a hoarding mentality of 'at least it's preserved' going on. Wildly ambitious plans to extend the length tenfold.

They even have that pinnacle of the dismal: a big Scandinavian steam loco that somebody probably bought for buttons in the 1980s then left to rot."


I find it interesting that here, one participant sees positive aspects to this line; the other would seem to be in agreement much more than not, with Mr. Parker as cited in my post above. (The plans to extend the line's length tenfold, would point to, at any rate, a certain amount of spirit on the part of those who run it; reckonably though, one's response would have to be "very best of luck with that -- you'll need it".) While I'm not scheming-out any rushing off to Ludborough at the first opportunity; it's pleasing rather than otherwise, that at least a few things about this set-up have elicited a positive reaction.

I suspect there’s an element of overestimating people with the above! A lot of people have no idea about the history of places they visit, seemingly the most important features are the cafe and toilets (and in some cases the kids playground)

Brings to mind a visit of mine -- nearly forty years ago ! -- to the Nene Valley Railway; which, then and now, I like -- without going into ecstasies over it. In course of said visit, conversation was got into with a pleasant couple of volunteers, at whichever NVR station it was. I expressed approval of the railway, while mentioning a couple of things which were not true of it, but which I felt it would be nice if they were -- including a perennial "meme" re this venue, of wishing that the whole length between Peterborough and Oundle could have been preserved. The response which the guys made, was for me at that time, rather depressing: it was to the effect that much of what railway enthusiasts might wish for, was of little or no moment to the ordinary folk who visited and travelled on the line, paying their hard-earned cash to do so: what such passengers most appreciated and were pleased by, was (1) good car-parking; (2) good toilets; (3) courtesy toward them, on the part of the staff.

My initial thought was, "bloody Philistine visitors !" Further reflection, though, gave me a dose of reality: of course, "normals will be normal", when taking an excursion involving something which is not a particular passion of theirs (probably many of them have passions of their own, which they espouse as ardently and -- face it -- sometimes irrationally, as we do railways). One sees it as both charitable, and making practical sense: to be glad of the money which these folk put into the coffers, and to try as hard as possible to furnish to them those features of a venue visited, which they most desire.

 

[Iskra]

On the scenery front, the East Lancs is unspectacular at best... luckily in terms of a museum railway for people who are more interested in the railway than the landscape, it's hard to match.

Many narrow-gauge lines seem more about "cute little trains" than either railway history or spectacular views. Nothing wrong with that of course, different strokes and all that.

A lot of it is about timing.

Other than my recent Diesel Gala visit I have never enjoyed the KWVR, and my last visit to the ELR was extremely depressing.

How come you found it depressing @50002Superb ? I found it quite scenic at one end at least, perhaps I was lucky to visit on a sunny day? Apart from the interest of 3 trains in steam, I thought it a good line due to Bury Bolton Street station feeling like a preserved major station and I also enjoyed that most of the stops have something there, so you can nip off to the chippy etc. A lot of railways, have very little near there intermediate stations which can be quite dull if you have a wait there.

I know what you mean about the L&HR and it’s definitely more of a commercial enterprise to transport coach loads of tourists on to the steamers at Lakeside rather than a true preserved railway.

I do however think it still has some character, particularly the train to boat connection at Lakeside which is fairly unique in preservation; the sight of a packed out steam hauled train connecting with a sizable ex-Sealink ship at a traditional interchange does add a sense of occasion I’ve always thought.

At Haverthwaite you can also still wander round the shed in which the 2 remaining Fairburn tank locos are often residing, if one isn’t out running. Obviously it’s not one of the most entertaining lines, but there is some interest there if you know where to look.

I will concede that the train/ferry connecting element is quite interesting.

Taken this long to mention…Peak Rail. It just seemed to be a slow (even by Pres standards!) run with not a lot to see out of the window.

The collection of Locos and Stock at Rowsley South in varying states was fairly interesting to see though!

I agree about the slowness. Its merit is further undermined currently by using Matlock Riverside as the lines terminus which is just a wooden platform with nothing else to see and removes the easy connection to mainline services. Scenically, I thought it okay, with good riverside and countryside views.

IMHO, the scenery on the ELR is not at all unpleasant - with good river and moorland views - and the friendly small towns of Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall have improved immeasurably over the past twenty years or so, with numerous good and reasonably-priced eating and drinking options, including several good real ale pubs - for those that like such things - including the two on Bury and Rawtenstall stations which are valuable fund-raisers for the railway. Also, the ELR doesn't seem to be afflicted by claustrophobic lineside vegetation as much as some other preserved lines, which is good for viewing the scenery. For those who find the tram ride from Manchester boring - and I personally find it very interesting, from the point-of-view of its 'mainline' railway heritage, if you can get a front seat - there is alternative access by bus from Rochdale station to Heywood - which takes about 15 minutes, followed by a ten minute walk.

Yes, it's a bit of a stagger with its 15 mph speed limit....but I shouldn't complain because the last time I was there - about five or six years ago - they gave me and a friend a cab ride in 31 270. The nearby Ecclesbourne Valley Railway - although not operating any steam locos - is more interesting IMO....especially at the Wirksworth end, with the white knuckle railcar ride up the steep incline to the quarry and back down again.

I agree absolutely!

I agree with all of this.

Maybe I’m in a minority but personally I prefer my steam trains on heritage lines rather than on the main line. A heritage line usually offers a much more varied and interesting day out than sitting in a Mark One ten carriages from the engine, looking at the same views I’d get from an Azuma or Pendolino. Each heritage railway has it’s own character and feel. Each to their own, of course!

This isn’t to say I’ve never felt let down or underwhelmed at a heritage railway. Peak Rail stands out, with a top and tailed train (Austerity tank and some kind of Peak) on my sole visit slowly rolling through an uninspired landscape with little in the way of additional attractions. Maybe I’ll give it another go if there’s any interesting events, I find some railways are best enjoyed at events and others on a normal running day.

I can't agree there, I find mainline steam much more enjoyable and of course you choose which route you go on when you book, so only book the interesting ones!

I would have to say the dullest ones are the smaller standard gauge lines, where you get a couple of shabby Mk1s being pulled by an 08 or similar. Narrow gauge is more interesting almost by default, as they almost always have unique stock and features

I agree. Are we 'sizest' when it comes to railways? Or perhaps unduly harsh on newcomers? I don't find narrow gauge more interesting though, in fact I don't travel on them unless I can avoid it, to me they aren't proper railways.

It's currently mothballed but I would have to nominate my local preserved line at Elsecar Heritage Centre as the most boring. Locos were either industrial tank steam engines or diesel shunters and the trains simply ran through some woods for a mile or so, stopped in the middle of them then reversed back again! Whlst there was talk of extending it to Cortonwood Retail Park it never happened and even if it did in the future it's hard to see what the attraction would be.

To end on a positive note, Barnsley Council are currently doing a survey as to what to do with the line, if you'd like to take part the link is here.

Elsecar Heritage Railway – Elsecar Heritage Railway – Ride a bit of Yorkshire History

In fairness, the railway there needs to be viewed in the wider context of a day out at the Elsecar Heritage Centre, and the railway did lay tracks to Cortonwood which was a significant extension but unfortunately the railway met its demise before trains could use it. I enjoyed my visit there as the train covers the line twice and I thought £10 for a cab ride very reasonable and the loco crew were very friendly and knowledgeable. There's a bit of mining history on display too on the line. Hopefully it can be brought back to use along its full length to be a bit more of a pull to visitors in the future, but the longer it is left the harder that will be. Have you been able to visit the site recently to see what state it is all in?

 

[Ken H]

...]


I suspect there’s an element of overestimating people with the above! A lot of people have no idea about the history of places they visit, seemingly the most important features are the cafe and toilets (and in some cases the kids playground).

...

I think preservation site should make some effort to have stuff that explains stuff so people have some understanding what that red and white plank is that goes up and down is and why there is a fire in the engine. Stuff thats simple for kids with a little more detail for adults who want to know enough to answer kids questions! Combination of stuff on the walls and perhaps a printed booklet available for sale. Maybe each railway shoukd have an education officer!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

When I was at the East Lancs (February this year) the weather was a bit grey and drizzly. The scenery wasn't terrible by any means, but there did seem to be a lot of views into suburban back gardens: mostly Barratt-box houses which looked to have been built in the last twenty or so years. That said, I was also on the dining train so my attention wasn't entirely focused on the view through the window for large parts of the journey!

All in all it was a great experience, just a bit of a shame about the suburban sprawl encroaching.

 

[xotGD]

When I was at the East Lancs (February this year) the weather was a bit grey and drizzly. The scenery wasn't terrible by any means, but there did seem to be a lot of views into suburban back gardens: mostly Barratt-box houses which looked to have been built in the last twenty or so years. That said, I was also on the dining train so my attention wasn't entirely focused on the view through the window for large parts of the journey!

All in all it was a great experience, just a bit of a shame about the suburban sprawl encroaching.

Head North from Bury for some scenery. Bury to Heywood is, as you say, a series of back gardens.

 

[D6968]

Head North from Bury for some scenery. Bury to Heywood is, as you say, a series of back gardens.

Certain parts of Kidderminster are the same, get through that tunnel though, and the scenery changes, I mean you can even see Elephants if you know where to look!

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think preservation site should make some effort to have stuff that explains stuff so people have some understanding what that red and white plank is that goes up and down is and why there is a fire in the engine. Stuff thats simple for kids with a little more detail for adults who want to know enough to answer kids questions! Combination of stuff on the walls and perhaps a printed booklet available for sale. Maybe each railway shoukd have an education officer!

This, this and this again!

It needs the right person, of course, a real enthusiast - and for life and learning - not railways as such. Maybe more a KASO - Knowledge Acquisition Stimulation Officer (copyright mine now) who should encourage school trips not just to ride, but to help the kids learn about all the things around and related to the railway - everything from the local geography and social history to the physics of a steam locomotive. Then have a quizz at the end with a prize or two for the winner/runners up. (Obviously the input would have to be adjusted for age. Heck, adults could take part too.)

Railways are like people - some folk are obviously interesting for a variety of reasons - but some appear, well "boring", or perhaps better put, of limited interest. But I believe, if you have patience, every person has a story and is interesting, you just have to find their passions and gain their confidence.

Having read most of this thread, I can accept that the East Lincs does sound difficult to get fired up over - maybe they are the ones who should work hard on this aspect of their operation!

 

[yorksrob]

The East Lancs is the best preserved railway for lots of reasons. Good pubs at the main stops, Bolton Street is an interesting BR era period piece and their DMU weekends are very good.

 

[Calthrop]

Having read most of this thread, I can accept that the East Lincs does sound difficult to get fired up over - maybe they are the ones who should work hard on this aspect of their operation!

The East Lancs is the best preserved railway for lots of reasons. Good pubs at the main stops, Bolton Street is an interesting BR era period piece and their DMU weekends are very good.

I having first suggested in this thread, the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway as a possible "contender": @70014IronDuke, please forgive me -- but does "the East Lincs" in the post, refer to the line at Bury, Lancashire; or that at Ludborough, Lincolnshire?

 

[yorksrob]

I having first suggested in this thread, the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway as a possible "contender": @70014IronDuke, please forgive me -- but does "the East Lincs" in the post, refer to the line at Bury, Lancashire; or that at Ludborough, Lincolnshire?

I assumed East Lancs (I must admit, I want aware of an East Lincs )

 

[Titfield]

What I find fascinating is that within these comments may lie the reasons for the decline (and possible eventual) loss of a number of heritage railways.

It is widely understood that some? heritage railways are struggling: financially and in terms of resources. Those resources could be volunteer input, a skills deficit, undercover accommodation.

If the posters on this forum are not attracted to visit some heritage railways (because they are boring / lack of appeal) what hope do these railways have of attracting sufficient paid visitors to keep the money rolling in or of attracting volunteers to keep the show on the road.

 

[70014IronDuke]

A

I having first suggested in this thread, the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway as a possible "contender": @70014IronDuke, please forgive me -- but does "the East Lincs" in the post, refer to the line at Bury, Lancashire; or that at Ludborough, Lincolnshire?

Apologies, I mean the Lincs Wolds railway ..... getting old.
I've never been, but the East Lancs sounds as if it has some fairly obvious attractions.

I assumed East Lancs (I must admit, I want aware of an East Lincs )

Well you are now !!!!

I meant the Wolds Wailway. K

 

[Calthrop]

I think preservation site should make some effort to have stuff that explains stuff so people have some understanding what that red and white plank is that goes up and down is and why there is a fire in the engine. Stuff thats simple for kids with a little more detail for adults who want to know enough to answer kids questions! Combination of stuff on the walls and perhaps a printed booklet available for sale. Maybe each railway shoukd have an education officer!

This, this and this again!

It needs the right person, of course, a real enthusiast - and for life and learning - not railways as such. Maybe more a KASO - Knowledge Acquisition Stimulation Officer (copyright mine now) who should encourage school trips not just to ride, but to help the kids learn about all the things around and related to the railway - everything from the local geography and social history to the physics of a steam locomotive. Then have a quizz at the end with a prize or two for the winner/runners up. (Obviously the input would have to be adjusted for age. Heck, adults could take part too.)

Perhaps I'm cynical -- but I see as one of the negative aspects of this fallen and sinful world: that a lot of the time people are, often strongly, learning- and knowledge-resistant. From time immemorial, those in the education business have had to battle with this tendency of the young -- who would so often rather be engaging in their own pastimes which they enjoy; than having to swot up dreary stuff in which they perceive neither point nor interest. (I don't mean to sound condescending or superior here: I was myself, like that at school.) Admittedly, to some extent, as per @Ken H above, kids can be curious and moved to ask questions about things -- but often that doesn't happen, or goes awry. My brother was a teacher for some years: his experiences in that occupation, caused him to conclude that supposedly educational school trips to museum-type venues (including preserved railways?) are a waste of time and everything else -- overwhelmingly, the kids just latch on to all possible inconsequential "fun" aspects of the outing; overall, very little solid information gets into their heads -- that is the last thing that they're interested in.

This pessimistic view is of course not an "absolute": some knowledge gets assimilated, however randomly; some individual kids do find such stuff interesting, and learn a good deal -- even about subjects for which they are not already enthusiasts. I cannot but feel in the main, though; that someone in @70014IronDuke's newly invented position of KASO, would need to be a magician (literally -- Hogwarts style) to clock up much successful achievement vis-a-vis his role. The same, I feel, goes for all "normals / punters" (child, or adult) visiting preserved railways -- very many of them will just want to enjoy the experience, hoping to find it relaxing / aesthetically pleasing (plus of course nice cafes, toilets, etc.): they won't want to be plagued with pesky facts, hitherto unknown to them and of no interest to them, about trains and railways -- and at varying levels of awareness, they'll resist such. (To be truthful, I can feel some sympathy for them here.)

Some learning on the part of non-railfans, will happen -- but in the nature of things I feel, not a lot. Even strenuous attempts to educate, will probably reap only a meagre harvest: prompting the question of whether -- with preservation societies' resources apt to be, in general, not very thickly spread -- it's worth investing all that much, in the learning-and-info side of the business. Have informational signs posted up, of course: they'll be mostly ignored, but some visitors will take varying degrees of interest in their content. Doing much more would, I fear, be rather throwing good money after bad.

 

[Runningaround]

This, this and this again!

It needs the right person, of course, a real enthusiast - and for life and learning - not railways as such. Maybe more a KASO - Knowledge Acquisition Stimulation Officer (copyright mine now) who should encourage school trips not just to ride, but to help the kids learn about all the things around and related to the railway - everything from the local geography and social history to the physics of a steam locomotive. Then have a quizz at the end with a prize or two for the winner/runners up. (Obviously the input would have to be adjusted for age. Heck, adults could take part too.)

Railways are like people - some folk are obviously interesting for a variety of reasons - but some appear, well "boring", or perhaps better put, of limited interest. But I believe, if you have patience, every person has a story and is interesting, you just have to find their passions and gain their confidence.

Having read most of this thread, I can accept that the East Lincs does sound difficult to get fired up over - maybe they are the ones who should work hard on this aspect of their operation!

Do what Football Clubs do and offer free tickets one day a week to a class in the local schools or a club.

 

[Flying Phil]

As ever there are interesting points being made about the educational aspects of Heritage railways. I am involved with both the Boscastle Shed Tours and Schools visits on the GCR. In the shed tours, most visitors have said that they enjoyed them and learned some new facts - in many cases to their surprise! The school visits have been centred around Quorn which has a rich variety of buildings/uses/artefacts, knowledge of which can be tailored to the age of the pupils. It is often the case that this will be the first time that some of the pupils will have actually ridden on any train!
There is a GCR director with an Educational remit so this aspect of the HR operation....and a fundamental basis of the Charitable status is being satisfied.

 

[Western Sunset]

When I was a primary school teacher, the highlight of the trip for most of the children was the shop.

I will not mention the time when we left a child behind at the British Museum, though...

 

[D6130]

I will not mention the time when we left a child behind at the British Museum, though...

Was that accidental....or deliberate?

 

[Runningaround]

Perhaps I'm cynical -- but I see as one of the negative aspects of this fallen and sinful world: that a lot of the time people are, often strongly, learning- and knowledge-resistant. From time immemorial, those in the education business have had to battle with this tendency of the young -- who would so often rather be engaging in their own pastimes which they enjoy; than having to swot up dreary stuff in which they perceive neither point nor interest. (I don't mean to sound condescending or superior here: I was myself, like that at school.) Admittedly, to some extent, as per @Ken H above, kids can be curious and moved to ask questions about things -- but often that doesn't happen, or goes awry. My brother was a teacher for some years: his experiences in that occupation, caused him to conclude that supposedly educational school trips to museum-type venues (including preserved railways?) are a waste of time and everything else -- overwhelmingly, the kids just latch on to all possible inconsequential "fun" aspects of the outing; overall, very little solid information gets into their heads -- that is the last thing that they're interested in.

This pessimistic view is of course not an "absolute": some knowledge gets assimilated, however randomly; some individual kids do find such stuff interesting, and learn a good deal -- even about subjects for which they are not already enthusiasts. I cannot but feel in the main, though; that someone in @70014IronDuke's newly invented position of KASO, would need to be a magician (literally -- Hogwarts style) to clock up much successful achievement vis-a-vis his role. The same, I feel, goes for all "normals / punters" (child, or adult) visiting preserved railways -- very many of them will just want to enjoy the experience, hoping to find it relaxing / aesthetically pleasing (plus of course nice cafes, toilets, etc.): they won't want to be plagued with pesky facts, hitherto unknown to them and of no interest to them, about trains and railways -- and at varying levels of awareness, they'll resist such. (To be truthful, I can feel some sympathy for them here.)

Some learning on the part of non-railfans, will happen -- but in the nature of things I feel, not a lot. Even strenuous attempts to educate, will probably reap only a meagre harvest: prompting the question of whether -- with preservation societies' resources apt to be, in general, not very thickly spread -- it's worth investing all that much, in the learning-and-info side of the business. Have informational signs posted up, of course: they'll be mostly ignored, but some visitors will take varying degrees of interest in their content. Doing much more would, I fear, be rather throwing good money after bad..

Perhaps I'm cynical -- but I see as one of the negative aspects of this fallen and sinful world: that a lot of the time people are, often strongly, learning- and knowledge-resistant. From time immemorial, those in the education business have had to battle with this tendency of the young -- who would so often rather be engaging in their own pastimes which they enjoy; than having to swot up dreary stuff in which they perceive neither point nor interest. (I don't mean to sound condescending or superior here: I was myself, like that at school.) Admittedly, to some extent, as per @Ken H above, kids can be curious and moved to ask questions about things -- but often that doesn't happen, or goes awry. My brother was a teacher for some years: his experiences in that occupation, caused him to conclude that supposedly educational school trips to museum-type venues (including preserved railways?) are a waste of time and everything else -- overwhelmingly, the kids just latch on to all possible inconsequential "fun" aspects of the outing; overall, very little solid information gets into their heads -- that is the last thing that they're interested in.

This pessimistic view is of course not an "absolute": some knowledge gets assimilated, however randomly; some individual kids do find such stuff interesting, and learn a good deal -- even about subjects for which they are not already enthusiasts. I cannot but feel in the main, though; that someone in @70014IronDuke's newly invented position of KASO, would need to be a magician (literally -- Hogwarts style) to clock up much successful achievement vis-a-vis his role. The same, I feel, goes for all "normals / punters" (child, or adult) visiting preserved railways -- very many of them will just want to enjoy the experience, hoping to find it relaxing / aesthetically pleasing (plus of course nice cafes, toilets, etc.): they won't want to be plagued with pesky facts, hitherto unknown to them and of no interest to them, about trains and railways -- and at varying levels of awareness, they'll resist such. (To be truthful, I can feel some sympathy for them here.)

Some learning on the part of non-railfans, will happen -- but in the nature of things I feel, not a lot. Even strenuous attempts to educate, will probably reap only a meagre harvest: prompting the question of whether -- with preservation societies' resources apt to be, in general, not very thickly spread -- it's worth investing all that much, in the learning-and-info side of the business. Have informational signs posted up, of course: they'll be mostly ignored, but some visitors will take varying degrees of interest in their content. Doing much more would, I fear, be rather throwing good money after bad.

Ill match you in cynicism. Some parents wonder why has MR Awdry the English Teacher arranged a trip to a heritage railway for his class during the quite term time, getting paid and free transport laid on(paid by the pupils parents) into the bargain?
Wouldn't the day out be better spent somewhere on the topic he's teaching?

 

[John Luxton]

If the posters on this forum are not attracted to visit some heritage railways (because they are boring / lack of appeal) what hope do these railways have of attracting sufficient paid visitors to keep the money rolling in or of attracting volunteers to keep the show on the road.

What I think this thread shows is that there are probably no railways out there that do not interest any members of the forum. People have different criteria by which they judge a railway to be boring - it is very much a personal judgement and there is no agreement as to which lines actually are the most boring - perhaps this topic should have been accompanied by a poll which might produce a clear winner in the boring stakes. I don't think a line will founder purely because a few on here find it boring. Rather commenting on line I find boring I would rather comment on lines I prefer visiting.

Earlier in this thread I commented about a Trip Advisor review concerning the Dean Forest Railway where someone complained it mainly ran through trees and didn't offer views which other heritage railways offer. Obviously that comment was a bit of a one off as obviously quite a lot of enthusiasts and non enthusiasts obviously like going there. I know I do.

I imagine also most people visit the Forest of Dean because it is just that a Forest and obviously there will be trees - lots of them.

Railways won't close purely because they are boring. One person's boring railway is probably another person's favourite.

 

[Western Sunset]

Was that accidental....or deliberate?

Long story; thankfully in the days before social media... But it all ended well.

 

[stuu]

What I find fascinating is that within these comments may lie the reasons for the decline (and possible eventual) loss of a number of heritage railways.

It is widely understood that some? heritage railways are struggling: financially and in terms of resources. Those resources could be volunteer input, a skills deficit, undercover accommodation.

If the posters on this forum are not attracted to visit some heritage railways (because they are boring / lack of appeal) what hope do these railways have of attracting sufficient paid visitors to keep the money rolling in or of attracting volunteers to keep the show on the road.

Whilst I wouldn't want to diminish the hard work and no doubt love and attention that has gone into any of these lines, they don't have any right to exist for the sake of it. If they don't have enough appeal to pull in paying customers then they aren't viable, that's all there is to it

 

[Runningaround]

What I find fascinating is that within these comments may lie the reasons for the decline (and possible eventual) loss of a number of heritage railways.

It is widely understood that some? heritage railways are struggling: financially and in terms of resources. Those resources could be volunteer input, a skills deficit, undercover accommodation.

If the posters on this forum are not attracted to visit some heritage railways (because they are boring / lack of appeal) what hope do these railways have of attracting sufficient paid visitors to keep the money rolling in or of attracting volunteers to keep the show on the road.

Considering 80% or more of the population consider railways boring in general the heritage lines may need to consider what they offer to encourage as a package someone to travel on it's line for fun.
If you've been commuting on a Pacer for thirty years you are hardly likely to be enthralled when one trundles up after you just paid £x for the privilege of experiencing the misery again.
If Heritage lines are using them to cut costs and work don't be surprised that visitor numbers will drop when you are running them.

 

[yorksrob]

Considering 80% or more of the population consider railways boring in general the heritage lines may need to consider what they offer to encourage as a package someone to travel on it's line for fun.
If you've been commuting on a Pacer for thirty years you are hardly likely to be enthralled when one trundles up after you just paid £x for the privilege of experiencing the misery again.
If Heritage lines are using them to cut costs and work don't be surprised that visitor numbers will drop when you are running them.

I felt quite nostalgic when the 144 turned up for the DMU day I was at recently !