Most DMUs replaced per mile of electrification?

[starlightEXPRESS]

Reading - Gatwick Airport? Many sections of this route are already done.

I think only about 45% of the entire route from Reading to Gatwick is electrified and there's 29-odd miles which require infill electrification. IIRC there are five diagrams M-Sa on the North Downs Line (with possibly one additional one in each peak). If you crunch the numbers it's just under six miles of electrification per DMU saved, which doesn't compare very favourably with some of the other lines mentioned on this thread.

Interestingly in their response to the GW RUS draft, FGW suggested completing the North Downs Line electrification in order to release more DMUs for Thames Valley services, but I don't think that the idea made the final published version.

 

[43167]

How long are the Uckfield and Marshlink lines (in terms of electrification needed)? 10 2-car and 6 4-car would be freed by those.

What's the DMU/mile benifit of the Edinburgh-Falkirk-Glasgow-Stirling-Dunblane-Alloa project?

If that was done, it could also benefit Transpennine express. It would free 185's to strengthen other services.

Though Scotrail could take some aswell.

Wouldnt take alot to convert the 171's back to 170's.

 

[telstarbox]

Apologies if this has been posted before but Network Rail have produced a map showing the complete network, with the electrified sections (as of 2009) highlighted:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...pe and miles/electrified track capability.pdf

 

[A0wen]

Sorry, I meant to type "up to 125", my apologies
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


To me, yes, this is exactly what we should be doing.

Nobody wants to build more DMUs (given the limited shelf life), so the best way to improve DMU routes is to increase capacity by releasing DMUs from elsewhere.

Lines like Walsall - Rugeley, Marks Tey - Sudbury, Coventry - Nuneaton, Doncaster - Hull, Crewe - Chester, Greenford to West Ealing and the Uckfield/ Marshlink lines would be better to do than a whole new massive project.

Problem is some of these aren't 'profitable' and require subsidies to operate, so the infrastructure needed for electrification would never make sense (e.g. Sudbury - Marks Tey, or Marshlink).

Greenford - Ealing may happen as part of GWML in any case.

Surprised that Uckfield wasn't electrified really, given all surrounding lines are 3rd rail already.

The biggest benefit of electrification is gained by electrifying frequent stop suburban lines e.g. Birmingham - Leamington, Birmingham - Kidderminster, Manchester - Bolton etc. Really that should be the focus of any future electrification since diesels are least efficient on regular start / stop services.

 

[tbtc]

The biggest benefit of electrification is gained by electrifying frequent stop suburban lines e.g. Birmingham - Leamington, Birmingham - Kidderminster, Manchester - Bolton etc. Really that should be the focus of any future electrification since diesels are least efficient on regular start / stop services.

For me the biggest benefit of electrification is gained by electrifying

* - self contained lines (GOBLIN, Valley Lines) where every service on the route would become electrified

or

* - routes where diesels already spend most of their time under the wires (London - Chester/Hull) where a short section of electrification would mean a lot of DMUs converted (not a lot of DMUs run on these lines, but the ones which do travel under wires for hundreds of miles, so could be replaced by EMU

 

[A0wen]

For me the biggest benefit of electrification is gained by electrifying

* - self contained lines (GOBLIN, Valley Lines) where every service on the route would become electrified

or

* - routes where diesels already spend most of their time under the wires (London - Chester/Hull) where a short section of electrification would mean a lot of DMUs converted (not a lot of DMUs run on these lines, but the ones which do travel under wires for hundreds of miles, so could be replaced by EMU

Except in the case of Hull and Chester, the DMUs which run under there would need to be replaced with new electric stock - and in both cases it is highly debatable what that stock would be. Chester you might argue Pendos, but since most head onto Nth Wales, there would still be the need for diesel haulage. Hull - no idea. More 91s aren't an option nor are any of the other units currently in use on the ECML, so it would need to be whatever the 'next generation' is.

 

[OxtedL]

Right, that's it....tomorrow I'm starting the electrification thread to end all others...

Or maybe i won't...

 

[Nym]

Its in a thread somwhere but I actually did a calculation for it...

Number of diagrams converted to diesel / number of route miles needed to be electrified

I came up with Lostock - Wigan at about 0.55, but this route wouldn't require feeder stations to it's less costly

But then you have to factor in other issues like:
Number of paths created on lines close to capacity
Stock to be cascaded
Local infills required
New service patterns
And of course, people factors.

 

[Waddon]

Ok, just to be silly, if its a question of number of units saved vs. miles of electrification... What about the Stourbridge Junc-Stourbridge town line? 0.8 miles in length and has two PPMs... not that they could really be allocated anywhere else...

Or in terms of 'real' units saved, the Cardiff bay shuttle, 1 mile for 1 unit...

 

[cle]

So did GOBLIN win this? Bonus points for freeing up the newest DMUs on the system, rather than Pacers like some others!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

GOBLIN would also allow a lot of the under-used electric locos to displace 66s on freight wouldn't it?

 

[Bald Rick]

GOBLIN would also allow a lot of the under-used electric locos to displace 66s on freight wouldn't it?

Which freight trains would those be ?

The metric that needs to be measured is number of DMU vehicles, not units, saved; taken further it would be the volume of DMU miles saved per mile of electrification.

Pure speculation, but I would guess that the routes that come out top are Manchester - Liverpool / Preston, the GWML to Cardiff, the Valley lines and then the MML.

 

[Class172]

How many DMUs were replaced when the Cross-city line was electrified??

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Which freight trains would those be ?

The very frequent ones that thunder through Gospel Oak on / off the NLL.

 

[Bald Rick]

The very frequent ones that thunder through Gospel Oak on / off the NLL.

Almost all of which are heading to or from a non-electrified line for some part of their journey. There are very few freights on the GOB that could be electrically hauled if it were wired.

 

[bluenoxid]

And reading Modern Railways this month, it appears that NXEA are paying Freightliner to run an electric service as a diesel to reduce the load on the OHLE on the EAML.

 

[northwichcat]

Electrification isn't as simple as just saying x miles will release y units.

For instance, the first stage of North West electrification is Deansgate to Earlestown. In theory doing that'll release no diesel units. However, as it stands it means the Scottish service will become EMU. But they'll be no DMUs to cascade at that stage as they'll still be needed for capacity via Bolton.

It'd be similar with Crewe-Chester. If that line was electrified it'll mean the Crewe-Chester shuttle could switch to EMU (which requires just one unit.) That project would need to coincide with the Voyagers becoming dual powered or a new Pendolino order with a WCML timetable recast to have any real benefits.

A slightly different question is if Hazel Grove-Buxton was electrified would that help with the autumn/winter traction problems?

 

[Nym]

Well, the next big job seems to be getting rid of pacers and having either a cascade or new build of suburban 100mph EMUs. So targeted electrfification of self contained routes would seem best, or those that could interleave with other electrified routes to releive capacity at pinch points.

My short list:

Lostock Junction - Wigan Wallgate & Wigan NW
East Manchester Lines: Manchester Piccadilly & Manchester Victoria via Phillips Park Jcns - Rose Hill Marple & New Mills Central (NT hope valley services would then move to 156/158 operation and run express from Piccadilly to New Mills) Possibly extend wires just south of New Mills allong with the Hazel Grove line to allow ECS moves between the two with a reversal at Chinley)
Victoria - Rochdale & Victoria, Guide Bridge - Stalybridge and all lines via Phillips Park. (This would allow all services from the West of victoria to be extened through to terminate at new bays at Both Stalybridge and Rochdale. Aswell as a new stopping service from Piccadilly to Stalybridge. Not to mention laying the foundation for electrifcation over the Diggle Route.
Snow Hill Lines (Don't know that much on these but aparently the're a good option)]


Personally though I'd also look at re-opening from Rose Hill Marple to Macclesfeild, nice diversionary route away from the overcrowded WCML, and if certain curves in manchester and a certain route is 4 tracked, it would make a nice access into the East of Victoria as an insurance policy or engineering diversion available for when somwhere has to be closed.

 

[Waverley125]

don't know the route mileage, but, in addition to the current wirings in the NW

Colton Junc.-Nevillle Hill & Whitehall Junc.-Guide Bridge

would take all 51 185s

 

[Nym]

Asside from those that go to Hull, Scarbrough and Middlesbrough?

 

[ainsworth74]

Asside from those that go to Hull, Scarbrough and Middlesbrough?

Which is a fair few what with the hourly service each way on all those routes throughout the day!