Most expensive loco nameplates

[52290]

As I've never been to an auction of this kind, I can't be certain what happens. However, this is an extract from the Terms and Conditions of Great Central Railwayana, who I referred to above (post No. 3):

"8 Condition of lots
Subject to Condition 11, (a) lots are sold with all faults and imperfections and neither the Seller nor the Auctioneer is responsible for any defects whatsoever; (b) no warranty is given or authorised to be given by the Seller or the Auctioneer with regard to any lot other than that the Seller has the right to sell it; (c) any express or implied conditions or warranties whether relating to description or quality, are hereby excluded.

9 Inspection
Ample opportunity is given for viewing and the Buyer, by making a bid, acknowledges that he has satisfied himself fully before bidding, by inspection or otherwise, as to its condition. This includes the physical condition and description, including, but not restricted to, whether the lot is damaged or has been repaired.

10 Catalogue descriptions
The Auctioneer undertakes that care has been taken to see that catalogue descriptions, including rarity, origin and condition, are accurate and reliable, taking into account all the information available when the catalogue was prepared, but these are necessarily matters of opinion only and shall not be taken to be statements of fact. Subject to Condition 11 neither the Seller nor the Auctioneer is responsible for the correctness of any description. Any comments on the catalogue, lots or descriptions should be made to the Auctioneer at least seven days before the date of the sale and not any later as this provides no opportunity to check any queries.

11 Forgeries
Notwithstanding Conditions 8, 9 and 10, if the Auctioneer receives notice in writing from the Buyer within 7 days of the sale that in the Buyer’s opinion a lot is a forgery, and on giving such notification the lot in question is returned to the Auctioneer at their working premises in the same condition as when bought, then if, on considering such evidence as the Buyer supplies to prove the Buyer’s assertion, the Auctioneer decides that the lot is a forgery the sale of the lot will be rescinded and the purchase price repaid to the Buyer."

I don't know what they'd do with the item if it was returned to them, proved to be a forgery and a refund made. I assume that they'd refer the matter to HM Constabulary for them to take action as necessary.

When I went to the sale by BR in Derby each buyer was given was given a certificate of authenticity.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

When I went to the sale by BR in Derby each buyer was given was given a certificate of authenticity.

Ah, thanks, that's good to know.

 

[Loppylugs]

What sort of documentation/proof is there that a name or numberplate is genuine? Or indeed a lot of railway relics that sell for a lot of money. I can't imagine there is much supporting paperwork for items from the 50/60's.

GWR Nameplates are easy to spot if forgeries. Brass always wears down with time and the surface letters will become rounded. The plates were affixed to the loco by three spikes and these left three vibration marks on the back of the plate. Swindon also stamped the plate on the rear with both the number of the loco and an L or R to determine which side it fitted on to. The earlier cabside plates had the number etched into the brass beading although this stopped on later locos. Swindon always issued receipts when selling their plates.

 

[DB]

Surprised to see no Class 50s in the diesel list - would have expected some of them to have sold for a fair amount.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Surprised to see no Class 50s in the diesel list - would have expected some of them to have sold for a fair amount.

They're creeping up in price and now sell for more than the average Hall plate. Nameplates from popular classes will always sell well,see the recent price rise in HST plates for example. Even those awful thin shiny nameplates from them command a reasonable price. Also the nicer the name the better the price,for example Pebble Mill or Comet?

 

[Justin Smith]

They're creeping up in price and now sell for more than the average Hall plate. Nameplates from popular classes will always sell well,see the recent price rise in HST plates for example. Even those awful thin shiny nameplates from them command a reasonable price. Also the nicer the name the better the price,for example Pebble Mill or Comet?

Do you know of any Class 50 plates which have sold for more than £6000 ? If so please tell me (with evidence) and I'll add them to the list.

Dauntless went for £7,400 in Dec 17 (added to list in Sept 23).

 

[Ashley Hill]

Not off the top of my head. Have a look at the 'past/previous auctions' section on the websites of major railwayana auction companies,they print the sale prices alongside the sold lots.

 

[Justin Smith]

Not off the top of my head. Have a look at the 'past/previous auctions' section on the websites of major railwayana auction companies, they print the sale prices alongside the sold lots.

That, plus my own records, is what I did to collate the list, and I have put all diesel/elec name plates over £6000 that I know of on it. If anyone knows of some I have missed please tell us on here !

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @Justin Smith to update.

 

[Justin Smith]

I don't think that it's the same thing, but there's always a double page spread in the RCTS's "Railway Observer" from Great Central RA advertising their next auctions and giving examples of what they've recently sold and the prices. The January 2020 issue has the following:
6231 Duchess of Atholl - £39,000

Have you the original source for Duchess of Atholl plate at £39,000 ? And when it sold for that ?

Thread reopened for @Justin Smith to update.

Thanks C

 

[Ashley Hill]

Unfortunately the GCRA past auctions link only goes back as far as 26/11/20. You could give them a call they’re quite helpful.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Have you the original source for Duchess of Atholl plate at £39,000 ? And when it sold for that ?

Thanks C

As I think that this question was asked to me, my answer is "No, I haven't, I've just seen it in the magazine".

 

[Merle Haggard]

Unfortunately the GCRA past auctions link only goes back as far as 26/11/20. You could give them a call they’re quite helpful.

I think you looked under the heading 'past auctions'. The one headed 'historic auctions' goes back much further.

Wildly expensive now are 'flame cuts' - the piece of bodyside with the number on, gas-axed off at the scrapyard. For a Deltic number someone paid north of £10,000 at G. W. Railwayman recently; what you get is a steel sheet, the back rusting furiously away, the front with some numbers on a magical order transferred on to the blue paint. Someone told me that a certain scrapyard (there aren't that many, so any more detail might identify) sold blue painted sheets of steel flame cut from other areas of bodysides obviously without a number on. Then all you need is some BR style number transfers. Certainly not saying the Deltic one was made like that, but one should be wary.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I think you looked under the heading 'past auctions'. The one headed 'historic auctions' goes back much further.

I went back as far as 2018 but couldn’t find an entry for said Duchess plate at GCRA,neither does Googling it. Could it have been another auction house or a reference to an old auction. For a plate that price it sounds like it went through an old Sheffield auction.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @Justin Smith to add to

 

[Justin Smith]

Thanks C.
I have added :

Ballymoss (Deltic) - Mar 23 - £32,400
Guillemot (A4) - Dec 23 - £38,500

That's seven Deltic plates in the diesel/electric list and three A4 plates on the steam. TBH I am a little surprised there aren't more A4 plates on there !

As ever, if anyone knows of any errors or omissions tell us all on the thread or PM me.

 

[Magdalia]

D1011 Western Thunderer nameplate and numberplate had a hammer price of £14500 at the November 2024 GWRA auction.

At the same auction Defiance from 50049 and Howe from 50023 were £9600 and £9400 hammer prices respectively.

Three steam locomotive nameplates sold for more than £10000:

£15000 King Edward VIII from GWR King 6029
£10500 Thames from GWR 9091
£10000 Western Star from BR Britannia 70025

Most of the railway auction houses publish results on their websites.

 

[Justin Smith]

D1011 Western Thunderer nameplate and numberplate had a hammer price of £14500 at the November 2024 GWRA auction.

At the same auction Defiance from 50049 and Howe from 50023 were £9600 and £9400 hammer prices respectively.

Three steam locomotive nameplates sold for more than £10000:

£15000 King Edward VIII from GWR King 6029
£10500 Thames from GWR 9091
£10000 Western Star from BR Britannia 70025

Most of the railway auction houses publish results on their websites.

Thanks for that I have added them, plus a few others. I do look at some of the auction results which I know about.
I have added links to some of the main auction results pages, though some are easier to search then others so any info on high prices for plates is helpful.
The steam plates do not make the threshold for inclusion, in fact I was wondering if the diesel threshold should be raised a bit or the steam threshold lowered ! I will consider it but the latter would require very much research as I have not kept a note of the plate values under £32k.

 

[Magdalia]

I have added links to some of the main auction results pages, though some are easier to search then others so any info on high prices for plates is helpful.

Great Western and Great Central websites have categories in their catalogues/results that can be used as filters.

Nameplates likely to go for high hammer prices usually appear on the preview pages.

The steam plates do not make the threshold for inclusion

If I had noticed that I could have saved myself some work. £10k for a steam loco nameplate is evidently nothing much to get excited about!

 

[Justin Smith]

Great Western and Great Central websites have categories in their catalogues/results that can be used as filters.

I worked out how to get the full list of all nameplates sold from GWRA but there were 442 (and that was just diesel ones) !
Is there any way to reorder the results (ideally high to low price) ?

 

[jupiter]

Import the data into excel and sort?

(If you can email me the text file I’ll try and do it.)

 

[Justin Smith]

Great Western and Great Central websites have categories in their catalogues/results that can be used as filters.

I have combed through the entire 442 entries and added a load of new Diesel entries but the list is possibly too long now, and makes the steam list (albeit with significantly higher prices) look too short. I will go through GWRA's steam nameplate list when I have time, though I doubt there'll be many steam plates over £32,500 on there. I could be wrong but we'll see !

 

[Justin Smith]

Import the data into excel and sort?

(If you can email me the text file I’ll try and do it.)

As regards extending the steam plate list below the £32,500 threshold that would not help as I did not bother even keeping the data, thus I would have to redo all the research to get them which, TBH, I am loath to do. After all, it is supposed to be most expensive nameplate and we already have the top 24 steam plates on the list anyway !
I am more likely to cut the diesel list to balance it up !

 

[Magdalia]

If the data capture can be automated then the marginal cost of a big list over a small list is tiny.

The longer lists do show useful information: how prices vary between classes and over time.

Doing a "catch up" is going to take a bit of effort but between Christmas and New Year is probably the ideal time for such a task.

But once you are "on top of things" then maintenance is just a matter of knowing the auction dates and checking the results.

 

[Justin Smith]

I went through all 381 steam nameplates on the GWRA site and three were added to the list, though I did lower the threshold from £32,500 to £32,000 to include Kingfisher (A4), partly because I am a big A4 fan !
I do wonder whether the classic car trend for "modern classics" to become more expensive * (and older classics to sometimes reduce in value) may be affecting nameplates too ?

* People buy stuff that they hankered after as kids (or young men/women) but could not afford it then.

 

[Magdalia]

I do wonder whether the classic car trend for "modern classics" to become more expensive * (and older classics to sometimes reduce in value) may be affecting nameplates too ?

* People buy stuff that they hankered after as kids (or young men/women) but could not afford it then.

Auction prices are a classic case of supply and demand.

For railway loco nameplates, supply is sadly a lot to do with previous owners passing away. We haven't mentioned the Crewe auctions yet, but recently they disposed of a big collection of Jubilee nameplates that are likely to have been on the market for this reason.

On the demand side, a high price occurs when two or more people want the same thing, and have the funds to pay the hammer price. The key point with auctions is that the price is actually set by the last bidder to drop out.

I don't buy nameplates but I do follow the auctions as a dual railway/economic interest. I noticed a big increase in hammer prices for diesel and electric era memorabilia during the pandemic which I thought was a "wall of money" effect. Rail enthusiasts with sufficient income for discretionary spending were prevented from spending on travel so bought railwayana instead. But that does seem to have been a step change upwards rather than a blip. On the other hand, for steam loco memorabilia supply is increasing but demand probably is not.

 

[Justin Smith]

Having entered the latest lot of results I think the list of Diesel plates is becoming too long, thus I have increased the threshold to £10,000 but I have reproduced the full list at that date below :

Diesel / electric nameplates over £6000 :

Ballymoss (Deltic) - Mar 23 - £32,400
Duke Of Wellington’s Regiment (Deltic) – Dec 02 - £31,400
The Green Howards (Deltic) – Sept 02 - £25,000
Falcon c/w crest (Prototype) – Aug ? 04 - £22,500
Tommy (EM1) - Sept 01 - £22,200
Western Pathfinder - Jul 19 - £15,500
Neptune (Class 50) - Jul 23 - £15,000
Western Thunderer - Nov 24 - £14,500
Highland Chieftain (HST) - Nov 20 - £13,900
Western Vanguard - Apr 17 - £13,500
Royal Highland Fusilier (Deltic) – Dec 99 - £13,000
Spartan (Warship) - Jul 24 - £13,000
Sir Edward Elgar (Class 50) - Jul 16 - £12,400
Lucania (Class 40) - Oct 23 - £12,000
Western Governor - Oct 23 - £12,000
The Staffordshire Regiment (P of W) (Class 45) - Mar 20 - £11,600
Invincible (Class 50) - Jul 22 - £11,500
The Royal Warwickshire Fusiliers (Class 45) - Jun 22 - £11,400
Nimbus (Deltic) – Jun 98 - £11,000
Western Monarch - Jul 21) - £11,000
Ivernia (Class 40) - Jul 21 - £10,600
Sharpshooter (Warship) - Mar 24 - £10,200
Lady Diana Spencer (Class 47) – Dec 99 - £10,200
Illustrious (Class 50) Jul 19 - £10,200
Royal Sovereign (Class 87) - Oct 22 - £10,000
Carmania (Class 40) - Sept 18 - £10,000
Mauretania (Class 40) – Dec 00 - £9,900
C G Churchward (Class 47) - Nov 15 - £9,700
Cyclops (Class 47) - Jul 23 - £9,600
Laconia (Class 40) – Apr 01 - £9,600
Defiance (Class 50) - Nov 24 - £9,600
Tryfan (Class 44) - Jun 22 - £9,500
Western Prefect - Nov 20 - £9,400
Howe (Class 50) - Nov 24 - £9,400
Coldstream Guardsman (Class 45) – Sept 98 - £9,300
Rodney (Class 50) - Nov 18 - £9,000
Earl Mountbatten of Burma - Oct 23 - £8,600
Renown (Class 50) - Mar 19 - £8,600
Zenith (Warship) - Jul 22 - £8,600
Royal Fusilier (Class 45) – Oct 01 - £8,600
Sharpshooter (Warship) - Feb 23 - £8,500
Vanguard (Class 50) - Mar 16 - £8,300
Diomedes (EM2 / Class 76) – Jun 01 - £8,200
Queens Own Highlander (badge only !) (Deltic) - Jul 21 - £8,100
Western Explorer - Feb 23 - £8,000
Northumbria (Class 47) - Jul 21 - £7,800
The Geordie (Class 47) - Jul 21 - £7,600
Western Challenger - Mar18 - £7,600
Argyll & Sutherland Highlander (badge only ! ) (Deltic) - Dec 16 - £7,600
Battle of Britain (Class 73) - Nov 15 - £7,500
Dauntless (Class 50) - Dec 17 - £7,400
Daring (Warship) - Nov 19) - £7,100
Cockade (Warship) - Mar 20 - £7,000
Craigentinny (HST) - Nov 20 - £6,500
Druid (Warship) - Jan 08 - £6,400
Kings Own Scottish Borderer (Deltic) – Dec 94 - £6,300
Western Empress – Jun 98 - £6,100
National Railway Museum 1975-2015 (HST) - Nov 20 - £6,100
Daring (Warship) - Apr 17 - £6,000
Pendennis Castle (Class 57) - Jul 18 - £6,000

 

[Ashley Hill]

I see the nameplate from Deltic 55005 The Prince of Wales’s Own Regiment Of Yorkshire recently sold at Crewe for £41.418!!!. This is claimed to be a new record.

 

[Trackman]

I see the nameplate from Deltic 55005 The Prince of Wales’s Own Regiment Of Yorkshire recently sold at Crewe for £41.418!!!. This is claimed to be a new record.

I've seen that on the auction website, it seems the figure is with commission as it sold for £35k, unless it's a typo or something.
The nameplate doesn't look like it had a clean since it was removed from the loco!

 

[Ashley Hill]

I've seen that on the auction website, it seems the figure is with commission as it sold for £35k,

Yes, £41k could be perceived as a seemingly misleading boast from the auction house.