Most striking split ticket saving?

[cholsey-choose]

Reading-Chippenham off peak return, roughly £50 (for a 1 hour trip!)

Reading-Chippenham splitting at Didcot, roughly £20. Even less on the weekend when the Network Railcard minimum fare doesn't apply.

I would feel like such a sucker if I paid the £50.

 

[alastair]

North Camp to Leamington for a day return.

Only through fare is an off-peak SVR £55.90.

Splitting at Banbury and using 2 CDR's £27.00.

Weird that this kind of thing goes right back to BR days!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Newcastle to Bradford, off-peak return £61.30. Split at York with an XC Only off-peak return York-Newcastle and it's down to £36, which is cheaper than two advance tickets at the lowest XC tier.

 

[cholsey-choose]

North Camp to Leamington for a day return.

Only through fare is an off-peak SVR £55.90.

Splitting at Banbury and using 2 CDR's £27.00.

Weird that this kind of thing goes right back to BR days!

I guess it's a natural consequence of (1) having cheaper fares for local journeys, and (2) not offering day returns for journeys beyond a certain length. I must say I preferred the Japanese system where it was a flat fare per kilometre and then a surcharge for using faster services.

 

[Merseysider]

I'll update this later with a couple more, but XC are particularly devious. As a quick example:

Tomorrow
0927 Manchester - Bournemouth 1411 £209.30 First Advance
0935 Stockport - Bournemouth 1411 £148.80 First Advance

A difference of £60.50 for 6 miles.

Of course, Trainsplit can do the whole hog from Manchester for £147.70 with 7 different tickets

 

[yorkie]

York to Derby £104.40 before 0930.
Take the 0835 or 0845 direct XC trains, and it's about £30 for a flexible day return.

Reading to Birmingham £112.80 before 0930. This can be reduced to £28 taking the direct train at 0915, splitting at Banbury. Even departing much earlier than this, a combination can be had for less than half price, with the maximum payable being £45.60 with a split at Banbury.

In both cases, the through fare was priced at a sensible rate at the time of privatisation. The 'anomaly' is caused by XC pricing longer distance journeys at a ludicrous premium. These are absolutely insane fares for the relatively short distances involved, and appear to be designed to put people off trains and into their cars. This is in line with Government policy.

I think £30 for York to Derby is a little too high, and £28 to £45 for Banbury to Reading is also a little too high. But to ask for 3-figure sums for these journeys is absolutely scandalous. People who allow this pricing structure (that includes people at the DfT and Arriva XC) are clearly acting in an anti-rail manner. If we had effective regulation, it would not be lawful for them to do this.

 

[londonbridge]

Posted this before but some years back I was sorting football travel and was quoted £55.90 for a saver return from London to Blackburn, which I reduced to half price by combining the old Virgin 'Saturday Day Out' ticket from London to Preston with a CDR.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I'll update this later with a couple more, but XC are particularly devious. As a quick example:

Tomorrow
0927 Manchester - Bournemouth 1411 £209.30 First Advance
0935 Stockport - Bournemouth 1411 £148.80 First Advance

A difference of £60.50 for 6 miles.

Of course, Trainsplit can do the whole hog from Manchester for £147.70 with 7 different tickets

Going the other way, from Bournemouth to Manchester...

Tomorrow (Wed 26 Apr)
0630, 0730 and 0845 - all £129.40 for an Advance single (or £135.50 for an Anytime Single)

via trainsplit (inc. their 10% 'finders fee')...
0630 is £87.01 (seven tickets)
0730 is £71.80 (four tickets)
0845 is £68.11 (three tickets)

 

[FenMan]

Reading - Totnes (returning the same day)

Out d. 07:33
Back d. 17:28

The Standard Anytime Return is £215.00.

or, more sensibly:
£107.50 Anytime Single (out)
£ 45.20 Super Offpeak Single (return)
£152.70 Total

Using a combination of Anytime and Offpeak returns, splitting at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury and Taunton, brings the price down to:
£64.40 Total

And, yes, I have used this combination of tickets for this journey.

 

[philjo]

going to windermere I have often found it much cheaper to get a 1st advance Euston to Oxenholme (Virgin only) plus the £5.90 off-peak single Oxenholme to windermere than get the through ticket - about £80 difference last time !

 

[DaiGog]

A lot of these are rooted in BR days. InterCity fares rose steadily, and in some cases sharply, where usage of local and regional services was in decline in the 1980s/90s. In order to boost passenger numbers to fill often plentiful capacity, especially in the off-peak, local fares were kept on the low side in the run-up to privatisation in order to make the product attractive to private companies by showing an increase in passenger journeys. On InterCity, the money was being made from the higher fares on offer to the business market, so keeping these higher and rising would make that division attractive in a different way..

Privatisation arrives, with the carve-up being along the lines of the TOCs we have today rather than the three big BR business units. Different firms operate different services side by side, each with their own business plans and their own views on the best way to fill their trains and make a profit. Fares regulation also arrives, preventing more substantial increases to many fares, so local fares stay on the low side (comparatively speaking) and long-distance fares continue to climb more steeply. Therefore the gap widens, and will continue to do so as there is no commercial sense in reducing lucrative fares to solve the split-ticketing problem.

 

[father_jack]

Going the other way to the OP.

WSM-CPM before 0833 on a weekday- SOR is only piece available for £57.

SDR WSM-BRI £10.60, SDR BRI-CPM £11.60. £22.20.

 

[Mag_seven]

Funny how XC feature a lot here - they seem to charge the highest intercity fares and operate the crappiest intercity stock.

 

[tspaul26]

Privatisation arrives, with the carve-up being along the lines of the TOCs we have today rather than the three big BR business units. Different firms operate different services side by side, each with their own business plans and their own views on the best way to fill their trains and make a profit. Fares regulation also arrives, preventing more substantial increases to many fares, so local fares stay on the low side (comparatively speaking) and long-distance fares continue to climb more steeply. Therefore the gap widens, and will continue to do so as there is no commercial sense in reducing lucrative fares to solve the split-ticketing problem.

This rather begs the question of how lucrative a fare actually is if no one buys it.

I suspect that part of Crosscountry's strategy is specifically designed to push passengers who have no choice but to travel before 9.30am into buying Advance fares. This carries two main advantages:

• they don't need to bother with revenue-sharing; and
• it assists their load management and planning.

From the TOC's perspective, it is probably better to get about £80 for two Advance fares that are only valid on a single service each way, as opposed to £100 for an Anytime Return with unrestricted validity. The former would be much easier to manage and lower risk.

And of course, if the passenger's plans change or a train is missed altogether, the TOC can then charge him for round two.

Fortunately, simplicity is on the way:
Press release

I'm sure that this initiative will solve everything without any detriment to the passenger at all.

 

[DaiGog]

Fortunately, simplicity is on the way:
Press release

I'm sure that this initiative will solve everything without any detriment to the passenger at all.

It ought to solve some of it, but if you're a TOC who currently receives £140 for a fare from A to C via B, and the new initiative will take the fare from A to B and add it to the fare from B to C, meaning you will get £100........something will have to give somewhere. If Advance fares are used in the new end-to-end methodology, as they are not regulated, we can probably expect some serious price hikes as soon as this is adopted so that A-B added to B-C will pretty much equal what A to C used to!

 

[DaiGog]

I suspect that part of Crosscountry's strategy is specifically designed to push passengers who have no choice but to travel before 9.30am into buying Advance fares. This carries two main advantages:

• they don't need to bother with revenue-sharing; and
• it assists their load management and planning.

Maybe, maybe not. If a TOC (not necessarily XC) sets a fare of £100 and ORCATS gives them £50 of it, they might decide to offer Advance fares at £51 and upwards as anything over and above the ORCATS share is a good result. The nearer £100 the better, obviously.

CrossCountry will simply do what they all do; price the morning peak up as much as they can, as that's where the money is.

 

[Hadders]

I can buy a combination of fares for a day return out of Paddington in the evening 'peak' returning later the same night that the railway would like me to pay over £200 for less £50.

If fares are simplified will the cost of the fare the railway would like me to buy be reduced to less than £50 or would I end up having to pay over £200.....

Simplification sounds great in principle but it will result in fares increases.

 

[father_jack]

Maybe, maybe not. If a TOC (not necessarily XC) sets a fare of £100 and ORCATS gives them £50 of it, they might decide to offer Advance fares at £51 and upwards as anything over and above the ORCATS share is a good result. The nearer £100 the better, obviously.

CrossCountry will simply do what they all do; price the morning peak up as much as they can, as that's where the money is.

But only today an example- an "XC ONLY" advance for £98 where the SOS was £103.

She missed the train.

Bought on the "2 singles might be better" website called trainline with a off peak single back for £97. A SOR was £206 and (obviously) valid on the next train and refundable if meeting cancelled.

 

[Joe Paxton]

But only today an example- an "XC ONLY" advance for £98 where the SOS was £103.

She missed the train.

Bought on the "2 singles might be better" website called trainline with a off peak single back for £97. A SOR was £206 and (obviously) valid on the next train and refundable if meeting cancelled.

Yep, quite a few of these about. In my earlier post (#8) I gave an example of three morning XC trains from Bournemouth to Manchester where an Advance single is £129.40, whilst the Anytime Single is £135.50.

If I had to buy one of them ahead of travel (e.g. if I wanted to secure a seat reservation), I'd go for the Anytime Single just in case I didn't travel or I missed the train I was aiming for. And because I slightly object to this pricing tactic!

Of course as well as the marginally cheaper Advance showing up 'top of the list' on booking systems, if an employer has a 'cheapest ticket policy' then an employee may be obliged to choose that ticket, and if the employer uses a locked-down corporate travel booking system then the employee simply might have zero flexibility over choosing a marginally more expensive but more flexible ticket that in the bigger picture might be the far better (and possibly less costly) choice.

 

[yorkie]

But only today an example- an "XC ONLY" advance for £98 where the SOS was £103.

She missed the train.

Bought on the "2 singles might be better" website called trainline with a off peak single back for £97. A SOR was £206 and (obviously) valid on the next train and refundable if meeting cancelled.

That's sharp practice by XC, but entirely consistent with their ethos, and the DfT are happy with this arrangement.

Whatever the journey was, it was likely that walk-up fares were cheaper than the Advance fares, if a combination of fares was purchased. On XC, it's very possible to pay more and get less.

 

[CyrusWuff]

An Anytime Day Return from London Terminals to Oxford (priced by GWR) is £62.40.

Passengers intending to use Chiltern both ways can reduce this to £45.60 by splitting at Oxford Parkway:

SDR London - Oxford Parkway (via High Wycombe, priced by Chiltern) is £42.20
SDR Oxford Parkway - Oxford is £3.40

It can be reduced to £44.10 by splitting at High Wycombe instead, but that halves the journey opportunities.

 

[neilmc]

I used to work for a major bank based in Bristol, and they realised how much they were being cheated by the rail network with an automatic policy of buying Anytime returns for staff travel, so they offloaded staff travel to an agency and put the responsibility on to the staff member to search for cheaper tickets, with individual travel costs featuring in the staff appraisal process. Suddenly there was an amazing surge in the number of tickets to and from Didcot, and meetings being held in the afternoon to facilitate off-peak travel.

I have to say I approved despite occasional inconvenience as I regarded fares for long-distance rail travel in the peak periods as licensed fraud, and still do.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Pitch up at Sheffield wanting a day return to Stoke On Trent and you'll be sold a Saver Return at £34.60.
Split at Blythe Bridge (travelling off peak) and you'll pay a mere £15.20 (£11.60 + £3.60)!

 

[cholsey-choose]

An Anytime Day Return from London Terminals to Oxford (priced by GWR) is £62.40.

Wow that is just a stupid amount of money to travel 100 miles or so.

 

[Hadders]

Wow that is just a stupid amount of money to travel 100 miles or so.

An absolute bargain when compared to the £338 you have to pay for an Anytime Return between Manchester and Euston.

 

[Starmill]

An absolute bargain when compared to the £338 you have to pay for an Anytime Return between Manchester and Euston.

And that was £329 less than a year ago.

 

[Merseysider]

And that was £329 less than a year ago.

A tad over £200 just 10 years ago.

 

[jfollows]

Wilmslow - Birmingham FOR £187.20, SOR £84.00, FSR £96.60 (restriction 2V), SVR £37.10 (2V)
Wilmslow - Stafford FOR £43.20, SOR £26.40, SVR £18.80 (CS)
Stafford - Birmingham FOR £29.60, SOR £17.20, SVR £16.40 (CS), CDR £11.00 (DJ), SDR £12.90

There are even better combinations if the timing is right, eg leaving Wilmslow before 09:30 means SOR £84.00 but splitting can be as low as SVR £18.80 (not before 09:00, so 09:11 fast to Crewe is fine) + CDR £11.00. Time restrictions on the return CDR from Birmingham though. I usually buy FOR £43.20 + FOR £29.60 before 09:30 for £72.80 total.

Even better: my destination is usually University (Birmingham) station; the CDR Stafford-University is also £11.00, allows break of journey in Birmingham of course and has restriction code JE which has no evening rush hour time restrictions on the return journey.

 

[jfollows]

Pitch up at Sheffield wanting a day return to Stoke On Trent and you'll be sold a Saver Return at £34.60.
Split at Blythe Bridge (travelling off peak) and you'll pay a mere £15.20 (£11.60 + £3.60)!

For similar reasons, no doubt, I had a day trip with an early start from Wilmslow to Derby recently: £43.40 SOR, but instead I used Wilmslow - Tutbury & Hatton SDR £17.70 plus Tutbury & Hatton - Derby SDR £6.00 for a total of £23.70.

 

[cholsey-choose]

An absolute bargain when compared to the £338 you have to pay for an Anytime Return between Manchester and Euston.

I think I find the shorter ones more off-putting because it's more feasible that one could drive it. Find reasonably-priced parking and you could easily rent a car for 24 hours and cover all the costs of driving from Oxford to London for less than that train ticket.