• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Most Unreliable Multiple Unit

Status
Not open for further replies.

Inversnecky

Member
Joined
1 Jan 2021
Messages
581
Location
Scotland
I should perhaps have broadened out this thread to include all trains, but perhaps similar views could be shared here on D(E)MUs/EMUs.

An additional aspect:

Over the years, there has been a shift (at least only for passengers, of course), from locomotive hauled traffic to MU working. Thus older locomotive stock has tended to be replaced by more modern MU stock, making a comparison of reliability between the two types more fraught.

That said, comparing similar vintage stock (eg Mk 1), would MUs in the 1960s-80s have been considered more reliable than locomotive hauled passenger trains?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

SteveyBee131

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
651
Location
Grimsby Town
I'll start off with a modern one...

Certainly in their early days, Voyagers had a reputation of sitting down on the Dawlish Sea Wall during rough weather, due to some electrical equipment being on the roof if I remember correctly.
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
Some yes - some no. The Cravens DMUs with Rolls Royce engines were something of a short-lived disaster. Unreliable, and some prone to catch fire.
And whilst excellent for their passenger environment, the engines on the Class 123 & 124 DMUs were rather troublesome in their later years.
 

Tynwald

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2016
Messages
175
Some yes - some no. The Cravens DMUs with Rolls Royce engines were something of a short-lived disaster. Unreliable, and some prone to catch fire.
And whilst excellent for their passenger environment, the engines on the Class 123 & 124 DMUs were rather troublesome in their later years.
I always liked the feature on Craven Rollers, of the driveshaft going through a tunnel in the fuel tank. Driveshaft fails, utter mayhem. Brilliant !!
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,418
If overseas counts then its got to be the Danish DSB IC4.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
I should perhaps have broadened out this thread to include all trains, but perhaps similar views could be shared here on D(E)MUs/EMUs.

An additional aspect:

Over the years, there has been a shift (at least only for passengers, of course), from locomotive hauled traffic to MU working. Thus older locomotive stock has tended to be replaced by more modern MU stock, making a comparison of reliability between the two types more fraught.

That said, comparing similar vintage stock (eg Mk 1), would MUs in the 1960s-80s have been considered more reliable than locomotive hauled passenger trains?

If we’re including LU, the 1992 stock unfortunately has to get a mention. I say unfortunately as personally I quite like them in their way, and when they’re working properly they’re actually quite decent.

The 72 stock has never been at the top end of the reliability scale either, though the Bakerloo isn’t the most taxing line so this doesn’t flag up as much as it otherwise might.

The Jubilee fleet is also starting to show on the radar as being a problem child, but not the similar Northern ones which still hold their own.

The 1990s DLR stock is also allegedly pretty unreliable these days.
 

37057

Member
Joined
3 Jul 2009
Messages
422
These loco / unit reliability threads are interesting. If you take any one class of train from 50s (for example), I guarantee you will find at least one aspect of it's construction / design that has had it's shortfall, at some point in its life (whether it be known broadly or not). The thing to note is, trains tend to have teams of engineers working to maintain that reliability, so as issues come and go, periods of unreliability shouldn't tarnish the overall life of any type of train.

If you were to work in the maintenance depot of a train that has won multiple 'golden spanner' awards then you will find that they have their issues too, but it's how these issues, as they arise are acted upon that counts. That said, these forums may measure reliability differently to how the industry does, though I don't think the industry measure has been going since the 50s as privatisation and separate TOCs / maintenance contracts have come in, so it's complicated!

On the BR 60s diesel modernisation subject (probably more applicable to the loco thread), I wonder if there was actually another incentive to 'choose' certain equipment manufacturers over others. The designs of the 'chosen' manufacturers certainly didn't go without their issues for the lives of the assets (leaky Sulzers for example).
 
Last edited:

NSE

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2010
Messages
1,727
I don’t really keep up with this side of the railways too much but I seem to recall lots of threads on here about 180’s failing. They always struck me as having reputations of being problem children.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,160
If we’re including Europe, the Fyra was an unmitigated disaster:

I would suggest that it is a clear winner. Just weeks (or was it days?) in service before chronic issues were found and the whole fleet rejected and sent back to the manufacturer. The report into them was utterly damning.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
I would suggest that it is a clear winner. Just weeks (or was it days?) in service before chronic issues were found and the whole fleet rejected and sent back to the manufacturer. The report into them was utterly damning.

The IC4s would surely give them a run (or grounding!) for their money
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,418
The IC4s would surely give them a run (or grounding!) for their money
The IC4s didn't get sent back though, and I don't think the manufacturer sending one to Libya counts against its reliability.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,160
The IC4s would surely give them a run (or grounding!) for their money
True, but they lose out on the main prize as DSB have persisted with them.

Perhaps the thread should be renamed “Most Unreliable AnsaldoBreda Multiple Unit”?
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
The IC4s didn't get sent back though, and I don't think the manufacturer sending one to Libya counts against its reliability.

They didn't get sent back, true, but in most other respects were similarly terrible, including the significant refund that AB paid out! (~50% of IC4 contract was refunded, 59% of V250 was refunded prior to the sale of the units to Trenitalia)

Perhaps the thread should be renamed “Most Unreliable AnsaldoBreda Multiple Unit”?

That's like asking who the most catholic pope is, or which bear has the most frequent bowel movement! :D
 
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
467
Location
Malvern to Minffordd
180 by far. it surprises me if one hasn't been on fire within the past week. when they ran our line up the Cotswolds a good 40% of trains diagrammed for these sets were cancelled.
 

david1212

Established Member
Joined
9 Apr 2020
Messages
1,464
Location
Midlands
Does the 769 count?

Early days but from the 769 threads and despite the lllloooonnnggg delays there seem to be plenty of failures. On paper a relatively straightforward project of adding a couple of power packs to replicate the third rail DC.

Are the 230's running again Bedford - Bletchley ? Back to summer 2019 there were numerous failures.
 

43066

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2019
Messages
9,214
Location
London
I don’t really keep up with this side of the railways too much but I seem to recall lots of threads on here about 180’s failing. They always struck me as having reputations of being problem children.

That hasn’t changed!
 

8J

Member
Joined
31 Aug 2009
Messages
643
The 458s have had spells of both terrible and really good reliability.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,178
Location
Fenny Stratford
Are the 230's running again Bedford - Bletchley ? Back to summer 2019 there were numerous failures.


They are not running at the moment and are replaced by buses. Yes, they were terribly unreliable and were for some time prior to COVID. There should be no excuses when trains start again after COVID!

The 230's were without question the most unreliable unit and the most unreliable over an extended period that I have ever traveled on. They were so bad regular users wanted the 153 back. They were so bad I bought a car.
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
7,443
Location
London
What about Networkers?
I heard railway man at Charing Cross years ago referring to them as Notworkers!

Maybe when they were first introduced in the mid-90s, but there's definitely worse culprits now.

180s FGW gave up on due to outrageous reliability and the somewhat adventurous 230s aren't doing too well, having been prone to be on fire a couple of times. Also not strictly a multiple unit but TFLs 345s have had a wretched start - all I can say is that's one of the saving graces that Crossrail wasn't completed on time or you'd have multiple failures in the Central section on a daily basis!
 

43066

Established Member
Joined
24 Nov 2019
Messages
9,214
Location
London
Networkers are doing better than ever before (albeit still not great), according to the last Golden Spanner league table.
 

supervc-10

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2012
Messages
701
Also not strictly a multiple unit but TFLs 345s have had a wretched start - all I can say is that's one of the saving graces that Crossrail wasn't completed on time or you'd have multiple failures in the Central section on a daily basis!

Not sure what else a 345 would be if not a multiple unit?

But yes. The delays have definitely be helpful in allowing Bombardier time to sort out problems.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
I’m the early days, TfLs 172s we’re measured in Casulaties per Mile rather than the more conventional metric.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top