Multiple Two Together railcards

[maniacmartin]

Alice and Bob share a Two Together Railcard
Bob and Charlie share another Two Together Railcard.

Alice, Bob and Charlie would like to make a rail journey together.
Can they travel on 3x 2GETH-discounted tickets, and if so, how can they buy them?

 

[najaB]

Alice and Bob share a Two Together Railcard
Bob and Charlie share another Two Together Railcard.

Alice, Bob and Charlie would like to make a rail journey together.
Can they travel on 3x 2GETH-discounted tickets, and if so, how can they buy them?

AIUI, Two-Together tickets are sold in pairs. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[yorkie]

AIUI, Two-Together tickets are sold in pairs. Happy to be corrected though.

A station booking office may be able to over-ride this, by selling tickets 'singly'.

For example if a Family Railcard holder wants to take a child one way, but return themselves, I recall that it was reported on here that a ticket office could issue an undiscounted return and a discounted child single.

I'm sure some current or ex booking office staff will be along shortly...

But, really, there's two questions
1) is it technically possible?
2) is it within the T&Cs?

My opinion is that I don't think there's anything in the T&Cs that would dis-allow it...

 

[185143]

Just searched on NRE for 3 adults and 2 railcards. It wants to sell 1 undiscounted ticket and 2 2GETH discounted tickets.

 

[yorkie]

Just searched on NRE for 3 adults and 2 railcards. It wants to sell 1 undiscounted ticket and 2 2GETH discounted tickets.

NRE doesn't sell tickets, but I doubt any of the online websites would be able to cope with maniacmartin's query. A booking office may be able to.

 

[Crossover]

Devils Advocate, it is a two together railcard, not a three together...:P

 

[CyrusWuff]

A station booking office may be able to over-ride this, by selling tickets 'singly'.

For example if a Family Railcard holder wants to take a child one way, but return themselves, I recall that it was reported on here that a ticket office could issue an undiscounted return and a discounted child single.

I'm sure some current or ex booking office staff will be along shortly...

But, really, there's two questions
1) is it technically possible?

Depends on the TIS...For Two Together, the one I use will only allow you to issue multiples of two tickets (ditto three or more tickets for Groupsave), but you can void a ticket out of the basket for other discounts (such as the Adult travelling on an undiscounted Return and Child travelling on a Family RC discount Single).

2) is it within the T&Cs?

The Family and Friends Railcard T&Cs explicitly permit it. The Two Together ones don't, but neither do they explicitly disallow it.

Having said that, I suspect questions would likely be asked if a Ticket Office sold three Two Together discounted tickets in one transaction, assuming it was picked up...It would possibly also end up in the Disputes section on here.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Doing it once would ensure that the T&Cs get amended anyway :P

 

[Abpj17]

Of course, two pairs of two could be sold, but is the price of the unnecessary ticket worth it relative to the discount. I guess sometimes it would be.

 

[muz379]

Warning creative application of the T's & C's below

"Both named cardholders must be travelling together to enable discounted tickets to be used."

Arguably Alice and Bob cannot be traveling together , because Alice is already traveling with Charlie .

 

[sarahj]

Then they buy a group save ticket and travel is NSE land. (or Southern land)

 

[reb0118]

Or move to France and invest in a Carte Ménage à Trois .

 

[Bletchleyite]

My inclination is that while this might as a technicality of the rules appear to be possible, you will get grief as it is clearly not *intended* to be possible.

And as ATOC are known to read here, I suspect it might get fixed

Neil

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I know this is off topic, but...

What's wrong with seeing if there's a Groupsave ticket available?

 

[Paul Kelly]

My inclination is that while this might as a technicality of the rules appear to be possible, you will get grief as it is clearly not *intended* to be possible.

I don't see how it's clear at all. I think the best you can say is that the scenario was not considered by the person writing the terms and conditions. Whilst this state of affairs (i.e. the scenario not having been considered) may be arguably equivalent to "clearly not intended to be possible", I really don't think that can be extrapolated to the more restrictive meaning "clearly intended to be not possible"!

 

[yorkie]

I can't really see why the TOCs or ATOC would be so desperate to prevent this and shut it down.

The only reason I can think of, is that they never wanted to give any discounts at all and were forced to provide/accept this Railcard by the DfT and are therefore desperate to find ways out of it.

If the Railcard is genuinely provided by the rail industry of its own free will, to encourage people to make journeys by rail which would otherwise be more competitive by other transport, such as by car, for people who are travelling together, then I can't really see why they'd want to stop 3 people using 2 Railcards, and insist on only allowing multiples of 2.

As for GroupSave, it's not available on Advance fares, nor on most routes, and there are all sorts of caveats that make it not feasible for most journeys. I'm sure if it was available and suitable for the journey being made, the OP would have considered it.

 

[maniacmartin]

In this particular case, I have already purchased 2 APs before the third person decided they wanted to tag along.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see how it's clear at all. I think the best you can say is that the scenario was not considered by the person writing the terms and conditions. Whilst this state of affairs (i.e. the scenario not having been considered) may be arguably equivalent to "clearly not intended to be possible", I really don't think that can be extrapolated to the more restrictive meaning "clearly intended to be not possible"!

I see your point, but knowing how the railway acts on such things I think "clearly did not intend to be possible" probably *does* imply "intended not to be possible", as they will intend any scenarios they did not consider not to be possible.

For instance, old GroupSave kids for a quid were not intended to circumvent the (poorer) large group discount, even if lots of us did do that. AIUI one reason for removing the kids for a quid was precisely that.

Neil
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If the Railcard is genuinely provided by the rail industry of its own free will, to encourage people to make journeys by rail which would otherwise be more competitive by other transport, such as by car, for people who are travelling together, then I can't really see why they'd want to stop 3 people using 2 Railcards, and insist on only allowing multiples of 2.

I also can't see why someone who has booked a trip with a Two Together and the second person can't travel shouldn't travel alone provided they have both sets of tickets *and* the Railcard, as (unlike the situation of one adult and one child on a Family card) they have paid more than if they bought one ticket. However the railway stops that as well.

Neil

 

[Haywain]

I don't see how it's clear at all. I think the best you can say is that the scenario was not considered by the person writing the terms and conditions. Whilst this state of affairs (i.e. the scenario not having been considered) may be arguably equivalent to "clearly not intended to be possible", I really don't think that can be extrapolated to the more restrictive meaning "clearly intended to be not possible"!

That is taking pedantry to a new level!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....But, really, there's two questions
1) is it technically possible?....

I think there is a way to do it on most TIS, but some may take a while.

....2) is it within the T&Cs?....

I can see a point of view for both sides of the coin, but I would not want to be the one testing it.

Of course, two pairs of two could be sold, but is the price of the unnecessary ticket worth it relative to the discount. I guess sometimes it would be.

It would never be worth buying two pairs, regardless of the value of the ticket. Two tickets is four thirds of a fare, the normal fare is just three thirds.

 

[ASharpe]

For instance, old GroupSave kids for a quid were not intended to circumvent the (poorer) large group discount, even if lots of us did do that. AIUI one reason for removing the kids for a quid was precisely that.

I'm a Beaver Scout leader. Another leader in my area mentioned they were going somewhere by train with a fairly large group of young people.

Knowing about group save and with my algebra skills it didn't take long for me to work out the optimum price for that one.

It was a considerable saving on what he was told by the ticket office when pricing up the trip.

 

[Clip]

It was a considerable saving on what he was told by the ticket office when pricing up the trip.

Well that will all depend on exactly what he asked the clerk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm a Beaver Scout leader. Another leader in my area mentioned they were going somewhere by train with a fairly large group of young people.

Knowing about group save and with my algebra skills it didn't take long for me to work out the optimum price for that one.

It was a considerable saving on what he was told by the ticket office when pricing up the trip.

Ticket offices weren't shy at advising it either. But when I emailed ATOC to complain that new GroupSave was useless because it was only an adult discount, they basically told me it had changed because people like me were abusing it (not in those words, but it was strongly implied). We've switched to Family Railcards which are almost as good. I do wish they'd sort out a proper small/large group discount, though - my suggestion would be that for a group of more than 10 people to offer the Family Railcard prices on all fares without the Railcard being necessary.

Neil

 

[arabianights]

Of course, two pairs of two could be sold, but is the price of the unnecessary ticket worth it relative to the discount. I guess sometimes it would be.

I do not see how it ever could be at 1/3rd discount.

You could come up with a very contrived situation where Alice, Bob, Charlie, Elizabeth, Francis, Gwynneth were travelling together and just before booking Dave came along and it would be worth it though - hopefully it is clear if you imagine a sort of chain with a weak link, but ask me if you need me to elaborate. But in this case for it to make sense you would again need the double usage permitted in this thread.

 

[causton]

It was a considerable saving on what he was told by the ticket office when pricing up the trip.

Even on a "return to London" with a group (of 3 or more, maybe with 1 child or more), there can be quite a few fares to consider, and we wouldn't have the time to work it all out for each customer! I choose 2 or 3 basic options and go from there, I know you could probably save more by splitting but it would confuse the passengers (in some groups), take a lot longer to work out if it is viable and due to local rules I cannot sell some tickets that could make it cheaper. Some TOCs kids travel free, some they travel free off-peak depending on what the adult is having, some tickets have a £1 flat rate, some have a £2 flat rate, sometimes the child has to have an adult ticket to make it cheaper! The combinations can be bizarre at times.

And then you get someone wanting 45 adults, 22 kids all of different ages and eligibilities and 4 people with Z1-6 seasons, who need to travel on the train leaving in 5 minutes...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think there is a way to do it on most TIS, but some may take a while.

I believe Tribute would be able to do it, it will warn you it is not valid but itt will usually let you issue the fare anyway, although it has a funny tendency to suddenly mark fares Not Available and you have to work out what it didn't like (usually multiple passengers) and start again :P

 

[bunnahabhain]

On avantix there would be no issue selling the ticket, you can pretty much issue anything provided there is a fare for it. So one adult on a two together can be done quite easily, as can a lone adult or child on a family railcard. There are a few occasions when I've done that.

With regards to the original question about A+B and B+C travelling on two together, personally I'd be quite dubious about trying it, if I had a two together railcard presented to me, then I would expect to be given four tickets.