My idea for a 6 track hs2 line

[Joshrowlands]

Call me nieave or young or stupid but I think I have a great idea and I'm not quite sure why someone else hasn't apposed this instead of hs2

And before I start I'm aware I don't know fully about train speed and the advantages/disadvantages of high speed rail nor do I know fully about track gauge or switch points etc I'm slowly learning..

I've been looking a lot in to hs2 recently and I'm completley for it don't get me wrong, the WCML is crowded just like most main lines in the UK so that's where hs2 comes in but it will only serve major cities and not small towns along the line? Which would be so beneficial so I have had this amazing idea;

Why not build a 6 track mainline? (3 up and 3 down) the track at the edge could be for stopper trains to stop at all small stations along the line (like northern rail services do) and then the outer two could be for long distance Trains IE serving the major cities, so then everyone gets to go to the major cities weather you're coming from London or a small little town like Stafford for example (maybe even smaller towns than that) and then on the other 3 tracks the same?

So to basically brake it down, 3 tracks for trains heading northbound (1 outer track for stopper trains which would stop at all stations obviously at lower speeds) and then the outer 2 for long distance trains travelling at high speeds and wouldn't be affected by the stopper trains because they're on a seperate track so they could just whizz pass? And then the same for the 3 tracks on the southbound side?

I personally think this is an amazing idea and doesn't leave anyone out of benefiting from hs2, it could be like a mega mainline and even the stopper trains could go at higher speeds between stations because the track would he designed for higher speeds? This idea seems really beneficial to me but maybe there's a trillion and one reasons it wouldn't work even though it's a brilliant idea and I'm just being nieave?

Anyone's opinion is welcome on why it wouldn't work or if you think it's a good idea? Thanks

 

[221129]

Call me nieave or young or stupid but I think I have a great idea and I'm not quite sure why someone else hasn't apposed this instead of hs2

And before I start I'm aware I don't know fully about train speed and the advantages/disadvantages of high speed rail nor do I know fully about track gauge or switch points etc I'm slowly learning..

I've been looking a lot in to hs2 recently and I'm completley for it don't get me wrong, the WCML is crowded just like most main lines in the UK so that's where hs2 comes in but it will only serve major cities and not small towns along the line? Which would be so beneficial so I have had this amazing idea;

Why not build a 6 track mainline? (3 up and 3 down) the track at the edge could be for stopper trains to stop at all small stations along the line (like northern rail services do) and then the outer two could be for long distance Trains IE serving the major cities, so then everyone gets to go to the major cities weather you're coming from London or a small little town like Stafford for example (maybe even smaller towns than that) and then on the other 3 tracks the same?

So to basically brake it down, 3 tracks for trains heading northbound (1 outer track for stopper trains which would stop at all stations obviously at lower speeds) and then the outer 2 for long distance trains travelling at high speeds and wouldn't be affected by the stopper trains because they're on a seperate track so they could just whizz pass? And then the same for the 3 tracks on the southbound side?

I personally think this is an amazing idea and doesn't leave anyone out of benefiting from hs2, it could be like a mega mainline and even the stopper trains could go at higher speeds between stations because the track would he designed for higher speeds? This idea seems really beneficial to me but maybe there's a trillion and one reasons it wouldn't work even though it's a brilliant idea and I'm just being nieave?

Anyone's opinion is welcome on why it wouldn't work or if you think it's a good idea? Thanks

And where will the line run? And the cost?

 

[43074]

What about freight?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Your six track mainline will exist after HS2. The sorts of places where slow and medium-speed trains need to stop are already served by the WCML, so there is no need to build another route from scratch. The fastest pair of tracks don't need to run through any of these places because they're not going to stop at any of them, which is what HS2 does.

 

[Joshrowlands]

And where will the line run? And the cost?

Exactly where hs2 would run, I'm saying it could stay the same as the current hs2 route but this idea would obviously be better?

 

[Starmill]

Where would slow stopping trains stop on the current route of HS2?

 

[Joshrowlands]

Your six track mainline will exist after HS2. The sorts of places where slow and medium-speed trains need to stop are already served by the WCML, so there is no need to build another route from scratch. The fastest pair of tracks don't need to run through any of these places because they're not going to stop at any of them, which is what HS2 does.

Yes but I'm saying where the hs2 route would lie, the small towns and villeges along the proposed route could benefit from hs2 if this idea was put In to place is what I'm saying, I don't know maybe this idea isn't great

Our railways are a nightmare the WCML included, they were built when people travelled at 40mph and that was considered fast in Victorian times, in my eyes it needs completely knocking down and rebuild using this kind of idea but easier said than done, a lot easier
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Where would slow stopping trains stop on the current route of HS2?

Well I'm not very clear on the route of hs2 but what I'm saying is hs2 could have 6 lines, 3 northbound 3 southbound, one of the rails for each side could be for slow stopping trains which would stop at all small towns/villages along the route weather that means they need a new station because they haven't got one or the one they've would be replaced with this one?

Consider my idea more of an extension on hs2, 2 lines each side would be for high speed long distance and the 2 edge rails would be for stopper trains so everyone on the route could benefit from it instead of just watching trains whizz by wishing they could benefit from it?

 

[Agent_c]

So rather than build a modern line, as straight as possible with full grade seperation, in areas that arent so built up for long distance travel, we're going to follow the old, curvy line that goes through areas now built up... why again?

 

[Snapper]

You haven't really grasped the concept of high speed rail. The clue is in the words high & speed. This means it doesn't stop at every blade of grass. Also, the more high speed trains you have on existing mixed use lines, the less capacity you actually have.

 

[Joshrowlands]

What about freight?

Never thought about this, well If this idea did go along hopefully people who use the WCML would use this instead weather they're going long distance or short (because the idea is a line that would serve both with seperste tracks) so that would free up the WCML for more freight or maybe one of the rails on this line could be for freight at certian times and then all long distance high speed trains could just go on one rail during quieter off peak times if that makes sense?

 

[Starmill]

Examining the route (Large file!) of Phase 1 - it doesn't go through very many towns and villages. That's rather by design... The WCML will serve almost everywhere along it's route much better once HS2 is open, because there will be lots more stopping trains.

 

[Joshrowlands]

You haven't really grasped the concept of high speed rail. The clue is in the words high & speed. This means it doesn't stop at every blade of grass. Also, the more high speed trains you have on existing mixed use lines, the less capacity you actually have.

You're not understanding what I'm saying

I'm all for hs2 and high speed trains but on this line if it were to exist the 2 tracks either side (North and South) wouldn't stop at stations only the major ones (like the current plan) it's only the one rail either side (North and South) that would have slow to medium trains stopping at smaller stations

So the high speed trains could carry on being high speed and go past on their 2 tracks either side of the line without being affected by the stopper trains because they would be on sepeate tracks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Examining the route (Large file!) of Phase 1 - it doesn't go through very many towns and villages. That's rather by design... The WCML will serve almost everywhere along it's route much better once HS2 is open, because there will be lots more stopping trains.

Yeah I see where you're coming from, it just seemed a good idea when I thought it up lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So rather than build a modern line, as straight as possible with full grade seperation, in areas that arent so built up for long distance travel, we're going to follow the old, curvy line that goes through areas now built up... why again?

No, my idea was for the route to be as straight as possible and avoid built up areas except major cities.

 

[43074]

Imagine the opposition from StopHS2 for a six track railway!

Although, at least they'd be able to use it!

 

[Joshrowlands]

Imagine the opposition from StopHS2 for a six track railway!

Although, at least they'd be able to use it!

Haha!

It seems like a crazy idea but I truly believe this would work and with it being 6 track it's less and less strain as the population grows and yet more trains are needed I amost wish I was in a position to propose it to hs2 lol

 

[ACBest]

So are you proposing to build it in place of HS2, or build an extra two tracks alongside the existing WCML? Whatever the answer, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[Joshrowlands]

So are you proposing to build it in place of HS2, or build an extra two tracks alongside the existing WCML? Whatever the answer, it doesn't make much sense.

Oh well, I'm a dreamer

 

[ACBest]

Oh well, I'm a dreamer

But what was the answer to my question?

 

[Joshrowlands]

But what was the answer to my question?

The idea was to keep the current hs2 route but make it a six track in order for this idea to work

3 tacks each side, North and South bound
2 of which would of been for high speed long distance trains each side
1 of which each side would of been for low-medium speed trains able to stop at small stations without affecting the speed of high speed long distance trains

But then I realised their isn't many towns on the proposed hs2 route anyway as it's mainly countryside but still a great idea I think as it has potential for the future

 

[ACBest]

The idea was to keep the current hs2 route but make it a six track in order for this idea to work

3 tacks each side, North and South bound
2 of which would of been for high speed long distance trains each side
1 of which each side would of been for low-medium speed trains able to stop at small stations without affecting the speed of high speed long distance trains

But then I realised their isn't many towns on the proposed hs2 route anyway as it's mainly countryside but still a great idea I think as it has potential for the future

There's no stoppers, so that knocks two tracks out. Two fast tracks alongside each other seems a bit pointless, as I don't see why, on a segregated network, services should ever catch up with each other like that.

The amount of land required would become prohibitive, and it may present some infrastructure challenges.

 

[Snapper]

You're not understanding what I'm saying

Oh,believe me, I do...

 

[NotATrainspott]

Yes but I'm saying where the hs2 route would lie, the small towns and villeges along the proposed route could benefit from hs2 if this idea was put In to place is what I'm saying, I don't know maybe this idea isn't great

Our railways are a nightmare the WCML included, they were built when people travelled at 40mph and that was considered fast in Victorian times, in my eyes it needs completely knocking down and rebuild using this kind of idea but easier said than done, a lot easier

But the places where people want to go and where stations need to be built are already on the existing route. The WCML is fine for speeds below 110mph, which is as fast as any of the services that will run on it once HS2 opens will go. There's absolutely no need to get rid of it.

 

[Abpj17]

Cost benefit analysis doesn't stack up.

There are two practical examples you might like to explore though.

The Bedford - St Pancras line has essentially fast and slow lines; MML services run on the fast; the TL all stations run on the slows. The fast to St Albans and then stop run on a combination of the fast and slow lines as their calling patterns and gaps in the MML/slows permit.

In France, the TGV routes go via major cities but avoid many of the smaller places. But, you do get the phenomen of stations in the middle of nowhere - not always well used. And not necessarily well connected into the rest of the public transport network rendering them a bit pointless.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

If you are to have a station every mile or two then only 2 tracks are needed with extra tracks only at stations on the route.
Lookbat the first Shinkansen line
That has trains pulling into bays and stopping while being overtaken.
2 tracks can be great if organised well.

 

[Joshrowlands]

If you are to have a station every mile or two then only 2 tracks are needed with extra tracks only at stations on the route.
Lookbat the first Shinkansen line
That has trains pulling into bays and stopping while being overtaken.
2 tracks can be great if organised well.

Yeah I know with a lot of signalling and careful controlling it could but the reason I was saying 3 tracks each side would be good is because 1 is obviously for slow stopping trains going roughly 50-80mph between stations so then trains going 250mph don't have to slow down they aren't ever on the same track and the other 2 for high speed is good for capacity and also if one of the tracks is blocked for a reason

 

[ash39]

Can't decide if this is trolling or not.

 

[Darandio]

Can't decide if this is trolling or not.

Josh is just enormously enthusiastic. He wants to learn.

 

[Abpj17]

Can't decide if this is trolling or not.

youthful enthusiasm (without pausing to always think about practical realism or using google )

 

[Joshrowlands]

Can't decide if this is trolling or not.

No it isn't, sorry I may not be as knowledgable as people like yourself but I'm learning, this post was just expressing an idea I had (for a six track hs2 line) and I wanted people's opinions most of which have been reasons why it wouldn't work which I also welcomed on my first post and I expected.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Josh is just enormously enthusiastic. He wants to learn.

Thank you, it's people like yourself that keep me on this site, Its nice to be appreciated
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

youthful enthusiasm (without pausing to always think about practical realism or using google )

Hm can't decide if this comment was in my favour or sarcasm lol

 

[The Planner]

But the places where people want to go and where stations need to be built are already on the existing route. The WCML is fine for speeds below 110mph, which is as fast as any of the services that will run on it once HS2 opens will go. There's absolutely no need to get rid of it.

Best scrap any of the post HS2 indicative timetable work thats been done then if we are dropping to 110mph.

 

[yorkie]

.... but the reason I was saying 3 tracks each side would be good is because 1 is obviously for slow stopping trains...

but people have said above that this is unviable (no possible business case) and that the existing routes go to places people want to go and it is the existing routes that will be able to have more 'stopping' services....

Are you disagreeing or have you not read those posts?