My idea for NMT to be replaced by a Cl800

[MonsooN]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

 

[Master29]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

In time there will probably be a NR class 800 in yellow proudly nicknamed the Banuma, Aznana , flying IEP or something similar

 

[Bletchleyite]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

Probably remain an HST, there is a long tradition of using old passenger stock as departmental vehicles. There are some custom builds like the Sprinter derivative, but there's also a converted 313, and Merseyrail used to use the 501 sandwich (a 73 sandwiched between 2 Class 501 driving trailers) and the complete 2-car unit, as well as Mk1 and Mk2 coaches.

 

[D365]

Where would a departmental 800 be sourced from?

 

[Harbornite]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

What would the point of that be? If anything, it would seem more logical for NR to take on some available coaches or power cars.

 

[broadgage]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

I expect it to remain an HST for many years, indeed it might one day be the last HST still running on the national network. The "banana train" is a go (almost) anywhere train and is most unlikely to be replaced with something that can only operate on limited routes.
Furthermore the departmental train has had numerous and presumably costly internal alterations to fit it out for the specialist work undertaken, why replicate all that on a new and very expensive train.

 

[Marklund]

Where would a departmental 800 be sourced from?

They could, you know, buy one...

 

[bonzawe]

They could, you know, buy one...

Japan spends the money to have purpose built test trains

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JR Central's Class 923 "Doctor Yellow" set T4 on the Sanyo Shinkansen, March 2010
Doctor Yellow (ドクターイエロー) is the nickname for the high-speed test trains that are used on the Japanese Shinkansen ("Bullet Train") dedicated express passenger train routes. The trains have special equipment on board to monitor the condition of the track and overhead wire, including special instrumented bogies and observation blisters.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Yellow

 

[jopsuk]

Japan spends the money to have purpose built test trains

So that's one each for the Shinkansen operations of JR East, JR West and JR Central. Seems reasonable. Non bullet-train based trains aren't an option, as the "classic" network in Japan has a different track gauge. SNCF have IRIS 320 for their network and HS1, modified from a withdrawn TGV Réseau. HS2 might see the GB network needing a new-build High Speed recording train? DB have ICE S, cobbled together from old power cars and carriages.

An 800-based test train would (currently) be less capable than the New Measurement Train. The NMT can operate over all lines it needs to, with the only restriction being that it can't do EPS tilting speeds on the West Coast Main Line. Network Rail doesn't seem to consider this to be an issue that it needs to address, and obviously the AT300 series would not address it anyway.

If the reliability of the NMT is fine, then Network Rail won't want to spend money on a new train that has clearance issues.

Do the 800s have, as with some recent EMUs (eg Class 379), track and OHL recording cameras mounted on them anyway?

 

[Marklund]

An 800-based test train would (currently) be less capable than the New Measurement Train. The NMT can operate over all lines it needs to, with the only restriction being that it can't do EPS tilting speeds on the West Coast Main Line. Network Rail doesn't seem to consider this to be an issue that it needs to address, and obviously the AT300 series would not address it anyway.

Absolutely.

The question of where NR would get one from, as often happens, was as a dismissive reply.
It's fairly obvious where NR could get one from.

The bigger (and more relevant) question would be why NR would get one.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don’t see what the point of it would be...

 

[gsnedders]

SNCF have IRIS 320 for their network and HS1, modified from a withdrawn TGV Réseau. HS2 might see the GB network needing a new-build High Speed recording train?

Given the lack of any UIC GB gauge connection from HS1 to HS2, hiring IRIS 320 would seem out of the question, hence I presume either it'll have to be done by the NMT or some new train (you might get away with converting some existing ETCS-capable high-speed train, depending on if it being fully captive would work).

 

[Mordac]

Given the lack of any UIC GB gauge connection from HS1 to HS2, hiring IRIS 320 would seem out of the question, hence I presume either it'll have to be done by the NMT or some new train (you might get away with converting some existing ETCS-capable high-speed train, depending on if it being fully captive would work).

Just use a 373? Better than have it go to scrap.

 

[gsnedders]

Just use a 373? Better than have it go to scrap.

AIUI, no space to fit ETCS equipment. (Though presumably one could strip out TVM/KVB/TBL, which might work?)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Japan spends the money to have purpose built test trains

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


JR Central's Class 923 "Doctor Yellow" set T4 on the Sanyo Shinkansen, March 2010
Doctor Yellow (ドクターイエロー) is the nickname for the high-speed test trains that are used on the Japanese Shinkansen ("Bullet Train") dedicated express passenger train routes. The trains have special equipment on board to monitor the condition of the track and overhead wire, including special instrumented bogies and observation blisters.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Yellow

Painting it yellow just makes it look even more like a duck...

 

[DarloRich]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

No. at least not for a long time.

Also what would be the point of spending all that money to replace something that works perfectly well?

They could, you know, buy one...

Is that the best use of tax payers money.............................

An 800-based test train would (currently) be less capable than the New Measurement Train. The NMT can operate over all lines it needs to, with the only restriction being that it can't do EPS tilting speeds on the West Coast Main Line. Network Rail doesn't seem to consider this to be an issue that it needs to address, and obviously the AT300 series would not address it anyway.

If the reliability of the NMT is fine, then Network Rail won't want to spend money on a new train that has clearance issues.

Is the correct answer!

 

[ash39]

Worst thread I've seen pop up for a long time. Seriously?

 

[J-2739]

@ash39

Tbf, it's not really the OPs fault, this was split from the original class 800 thread, but a note hasn't been put down yet.

 

[Marklund]

Is that the best use of tax payers money.............................

If you're going to quote me, quote what I posted later, and in context, thanks.

Oh, and over use of ellipsis doesn't make your points any more impressive...

 

[Tracked]

No-one's suggested a Pacer or a 442 for the job yet, is there a problem with the board?

 

[najaB]

No-one's suggested a Pacer or a 442 for the job yet, is there a problem with the board?

If you're looking for a go-anywhere train, 442's are derived from Mk3s and a Class 37 is RA3...

 

[43096]

The NMT is on long-term lease to NR so not being replaced any time soon.

Why you would take an AT300 or whatever is beyond me. The HST has a very wide route clearance whereas the ****achi stuff doesn't. 26m vehicles would not be easy to clear over the network.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The other thing with the NMT is there is going to be a glut of spare parts available soon.

 

[D365]

Tbf, it's not really the OPs fault, this was split from the original class 800 thread, but a note hasn't been put down yet.

As this discussion isn't relating to the Class 800 testing or the GWR rollout.

 

[Suraggu]

I saw the Network Rail "Banana train" as I was heading out of Bristol TM last week. Will that also change to a Class 800 or will it remain an HST as it's not for passengers?

Your idea is pretty pointless, a one off build? Thats going to be extremely expensive.

 

[MonsooN]

It was just a question that I posted in the main 800 thread. I never intended it to become a thread on its own. And I don't have an "idea." That was just put in the title the moderator used.

The question has been answered to my satisfaction.

 

[adrock1976]

AIUI, no space to fit ETCS equipment. (Though presumably one could strip out TVM/KVB/TBL, which might work?)

Could the acronyms/abbreviations please be translated into plain English?

I believe it is forum policy not to use acronyms or abbreviations without first saying what they mean.

 

[najaB]

AIUI, no space to fit ETCS equipment. (Though presumably one could strip out TVM/KVB/TBL, which might work?)

Could the acronyms/abbreviations please be translated into plain English?

In cab signalling equipment.

 

[Eagle i-Thrust]

Could the acronyms/abbreviations please be translated into plain English?

I believe it is forum policy not to use acronyms or abbreviations without first saying what they mean.

ETCS = European Train Control System
TVM = Transmission Voie-Machine (Used mainly in France).
KVB = Contrôle de Vitesse par Balises (Also used in France).
TBL = Transmissie Baken Locomotief (Used in Belgium).

As najaB mentioned these are signalling systems used in aforementioned countries amongst others.

 

[adrock1976]

Many thanks.

One that jumps out at me is the KVB system. Is part of this signalling system used for the Pendolinos and Voyagers in the UK, or is it totally different?