My Main Line is Better than Yours

[yorksrob]

You’re right. We did a day-trip to Rye a year or two ago (to walk the Rye & Camber Tramway). Unusually we took HS1, or what is still to me CTRL, to Ashford, and it was remarked to me how utterly boring that part of journey was.

Sure it’s useful for getting places quickly, although I tend to find that once beyond Ashford this advantage rapidly diminishes, and doesn’t really exist at all on the Faversham route. However in all honesty at the end of the day it’s still a case of getting on a train at an origin and getting off at a destination, half an hour extra on a pleasant and comfortable Electrostar which at certain times of day may well be pretty empty for most of the journey (especially on the Ashford routes) is no bother at all.

Indeed. You get a better view of the Wealden countryside between Ashford and London via the Tonbridge route as well.

 

[RailWonderer]

GEML for me. Liverpool St to Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, Norwich and the branches. It’s gone to the dogs these last few years, 30 year old trains and old MKIII/DVT ex-Virgin rolling stock with filthy windows you can’t even see out of, running up and down every day. The lines are very wobbly around the London area and fast trains thump and bump with one another the tracks are built that close together. East London is awful, so many ugly high rises around Stratford, old and new, the only nice part is north of Ipswich. Trains have been short formed and delayed frequently. New trains delayed by over a year. At least there are a small number of newer 360s.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. You get a better view of the Wealden countryside between Ashford and London via the Tonbridge route as well.

Absolutely. That part of Kent never fails to live up to its handle of “garden of England”.

It helps that the trains tend to be fairly empty as well. Perhaps not in absolute numbers, but certainly at off-peak times in 8-car trains punters can be fairly thinly spread.

I always used to enjoy going to Hastings in the 1990s. Almost invariably would go via Ashford, sometimes via Maidstone. By this time the first part was more likely to be a VEP rather than CEP, although a brand-new 365 was an occasional novelty on the Maidstone route at that time. The best bit of course was wondering what was going to turn up on the Ashford-Hastings line, 207017 being the natural first prize.

To be fair, the Southeastern Electrostars with their luxurious Connex interior are a reasonably worthy replacement for the Mk1s, although I’d take a VEP any day.

 

[yorksrob]

Absolutely. That part of Kent never fails to live up to its handle of “garden of England”.

It helps that the trains tend to be fairly empty as well. Perhaps not in absolute numbers, but certainly at off-peak times in 8-car trains punters can be fairly thinly spread.

I always used to enjoy going to Hastings in the 1990s. Almost invariably would go via Ashford, sometimes via Maidstone. By this time the first part was more likely to be a VEP rather than CEP, although a brand-new 365 was an occasional novelty on the Maidstone route at that time. The best bit of course was wondering what was going to turn up on the Ashford-Hastings line, 207017 being the natural first prize.

To be fair, the Southeastern Electrostars with their luxurious Connex interior are a reasonably worthy replacement for the Mk1s, although I’d take a VEP any day.

Yes, its all best enjoyed from a VEP compartment. VEPs were the mainstay of services on the Maidstone line for a long time. You never know, we might get to travel on one through Kent again one day !

The electrostars are nice to travel in, and quite underused a lot of the time. That said, this Christmas, I had a train that was busy all the way between Ashford and Tonbridge. Busiest I'd seen it since HS1 services started !

Was 207017 the one that had trojan moquette up until very late on ?

 

[Mogster]

Wigan is lucky to be a bit of a railway hub with the WCML, Southport, Bolton. Atherton and Kirkby lines all converging. As far as stock goes is from the sublime to the ridiculous, from a Pendo to Edinburgh to a 142 to Hag Fold...

 

[bramling]

Yes, its all best enjoyed from a VEP compartment. VEPs were the mainstay of services on the Maidstone line for a long time. You never know, we might get to travel on one through Kent again one day !

The electrostars are nice to travel in, and quite underused a lot of the time. That said, this Christmas, I had a train that was busy all the way between Ashford and Tonbridge. Busiest I'd seen it since HS1 services started !

Was 207017 the one that had trojan moquette up until very late on ?

Whilst the VEP compartments were nice, one naturally tended to avoid these in order to travel in the motor car! I think history has viewed VEPs a little unfairly. Whilst by no means the perfect or most comfortable train, they were a pretty good “jack of all trades”. I liked them anyway.

Yes 207017 was the one with Trojan moquette and tungsten lamps. Although ISTR it did increasingly get brought “up-to-date” with NSE moquette in its final couple of years. In my view at the time this was *the* nicest train on the railway, the only slight spoiler was it did have a habit of getting quite heavily vandalised, no doubt partly due to the lack of gangways.

 

[Aictos]

I live in Luton. We have fast trains to Birmingham, Manchester and North Wales, all available by spending an hour or so on a bus going up to Milton Keynes first.

There's some line running up to Corby or something as well locally, but that's a side point.

Not forgetting fast trains to London too

 

[Train Maniac]

Whilst the VEP compartments were nice, one naturally tended to avoid these in order to travel in the motor car! I think history has viewed VEPs a little unfairly. Whilst by no means the perfect or most comfortable train, they were a pretty good “jack of all trades”. I liked them anyway.

Yes 207017 was the one with Trojan moquette and tungsten lamps. Although ISTR it did increasingly get brought “up-to-date” with NSE moquette in its final couple of years. In my view at the time this was *the* nicest train on the railway, the only slight spoiler was it did have a habit of getting quite heavily vandalised, no doubt partly due to the lack of gangways.

Yeah! the VEP's were the absolute best when i was a little kid!! Battered, dirty, noisy and bounced all over the place! Haha

 

[bramling]

Yeah! the VEP's were the absolute best when i was a little kid!! Battered, dirty, noisy and bounced all over the place! Haha

And not forgetting windows which could be leaned out of without having to stray far away from one’s seat. ISTR the south eastern and south western ones only got bars very near the end, the south central ones presumably having gained them much earlier to allow working through Oxted tunnel.

 

[E_Reeves]

The WCML. One of the two 125mph mainlines, and interesting and/or beautiful scenery near enough throughout. The WCML tells the story of the UK in one journey - from the bustle of London, to the run-down suburbs, to the beautiful rolling hills of the Chilterns and Northamptonshire, to the industrial Midlands, to the much greener rolling hills of Cheshire, to the industrial North West, to the actual west coast (briefly!) and up through Lakeland, over Shap, a stop at the border city of Carlisle, then on through more stunning mountain scenery to the great Scottish cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The ECML is a drab and boring wasteland in comparison.

Completely agree... The views are absolutely stunning through the Lake District!

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst the VEP compartments were nice, one naturally tended to avoid these in order to travel in the motor car! I think history has viewed VEPs a little unfairly. Whilst by no means the perfect or most comfortable train, they were a pretty good “jack of all trades”. I liked them anyway.

Yes 207017 was the one with Trojan moquette and tungsten lamps. Although ISTR it did increasingly get brought “up-to-date” with NSE moquette in its final couple of years. In my view at the time this was *the* nicest train on the railway, the only slight spoiler was it did have a habit of getting quite heavily vandalised, no doubt partly due to the lack of gangways.

Yes, I quite liked the VEP's. As you say, decent jack of all trades trains.

I remember getting 207012 (or similar) long after the Marshlink had received it's dedicated fleet of units refurbished with gangways.

 

[bramling]

Yes, I quite liked the VEP's. As you say, decent jack of all trades trains.

I remember getting 207012 (or similar) long after the Marshlink had received it's dedicated fleet of units refurbished with gangways.

Wouldn’t have been 207012 as that was withdrawn in the 1980s following the East Grinstead electrification. According to my notes the only two Oxted units to survive into the 1990s were 207001 and 207013, which lasted until 1993. The motor car from 013 survived into preservation but this gradually fell by the wayside and the car was sadly scrapped as recently as a couple of years ago.

So, unless it was 207017, I’d suggest your unit was possibly 207013 (which would make me slightly envious as that’s one I never managed to catch!).

Riding on 205032 on the Dartmoor Railway a few years back was like going back in time. Pink-tinted flourescant tubes (instead of the more recent brilliant white, daylight or LED versions), a full set of interior maps and posters dating from the early 2000s, and *that* distinctive smell these units always used to have inside which I always put down to dust! The Eden Valley unit is just as nice, though it doesn’t run as fast.

 

[43096]

Yes, I quite liked the VEP's. As you say, decent jack of all trades trains.

VEPs were outdated when they were built; they should have been built as sliding door stock (as Merseyside and Glasgow had had for years previously) rather than perpetuating the SR slam door mentality.

Cold and draughty in winter, hot and sweaty in summer, they were appalling for those using them; to suggest otherwise is just misty-eyed rail enthusiast talk. The Desiros, Electrostars and Junipers that replaced them were a massive step change in quality.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And not forgetting windows which could be leaned out of without having to stray far away from one’s seat. ISTR the south eastern and south western ones only got bars very near the end, the south central ones presumably having gained them much earlier to allow working through Oxted tunnel.

The South Western ones never received bars, though I seem to remember a CIG which had a CEP trailer with window bars.

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn’t have been 207012 as that was withdrawn in the 1980s following the East Grinstead electrification. According to my notes the only two Oxted units to survive into the 1990s were 207001 and 207013, which lasted until 1993. The motor car from 013 survived into preservation but this gradually fell by the wayside and the car was sadly scrapped as recently as a couple of years ago.

So, unless it was 207017, I’d suggest your unit was possibly 207013 (which would make me slightly envious as that’s one I never managed to catch!).

Riding on 205032 on the Dartmoor Railway a few years back was like going back in time. Pink-tinted flourescant tubes (instead of the more recent brilliant white, daylight or LED versions), a full set of interior maps and posters dating from the early 2000s, and *that* distinctive smell these units always used to have inside which I always put down to dust! The Eden Valley unit is just as nice, though it doesn’t run as fast.

There were the two (I think) which had their centre trailers removed and were fully refurbed for the Marshlink and later became 3 cars again with the addition of a CEP trailer. These lasted up until the end of thumper action in the mid noughties. I wonder if these were given a different number category.

I definitely remember getting an unrefurbished 207 very late on, which I presume had been living on the Uckfield line. The trojan was a dead giveaway.

VEPs were outdated when they were built; they should have been built as sliding door stock (as Merseyside and Glasgow had had for years previously) rather than perpetuating the SR slam door mentality.

Cold and draughty in winter, hot and sweaty in summer, they were appalling for those using them; to suggest otherwise is just misty-eyed rail enthusiast talk. The Desiros, Electrostars and Junipers that replaced them were a massive step change in quality.

You get a table on the new ones, but other than that, the VEP's were fine for me. Used to love travelling up to Victoria in my own compartment. Superb.

 

[bramling]

There were the two (I think) which had their centre trailers removed and were fully refurbed for the Marshlink and later became 3 cars again with the addition of a CEP trailer. These lasted up until the end of thumper action in the mid noughties. I wonder if these were given a different number category.

I definitely remember getting an unrefurbished 207 very late on, which I presume had been living on the Uckfield line. The trojan was a dead giveaway.

The refurbished examples were given their own number sequence, and ultimately became 207201-3. The first two were even named Ashford Fayre and Brighton Royal Pavilion respectively. If it was an unrefurbished 207 and after 1993 then it could only have been 207017. Of the refurbished units 207201 came to grief hitting a tree a few years before the finale and was robbed for parts, ultimately being one of only a small number of the final survivors which didn’t make it into preservation.

If there were two things I’d put back on the railway now and go back in time one would be DEMUs (probably more practically on Oxted to Uckfield rather than Ashford to Hastings), and the other would be Manchester-Bury with the 504s! Actually the former isn’t such a fanciful idea...

 

[bramling]

VEPs were outdated when they were built; they should have been built as sliding door stock (as Merseyside and Glasgow had had for years previously) rather than perpetuating the SR slam door mentality.

Cold and draughty in winter, hot and sweaty in summer, they were appalling for those using them; to suggest otherwise is just misty-eyed rail enthusiast talk. The Desiros, Electrostars and Junipers that replaced them were a massive step change in quality.

I loved the VEPs. Never really found the issues described, although to be fair I tended to use them when not busy. Found them comfortable enough, although probably not so when all seats taken.

 

[yorksrob]

The refurbished examples were given their own number sequence, and ultimately became 207201-3. The first two were even named Ashford Fayre and Brighton Royal Pavilion respectively. If it was an unrefurbished 207 and after 1993 then it could only have been 207017. Of the refurbished units 207201 came to grief hitting a tree a few years before the finale and was robbed for parts, ultimately being one of only a small number of the final survivors which didn’t make it into preservation.

If there were two things I’d put back on the railway now and go back in time one would be DEMUs (probably more practically on Oxted to Uckfield rather than Ashford to Hastings), and the other would be Manchester-Bury with the 504s! Actually the former isn’t such a fanciful idea...

Ah well, I do regularly enjoy thumper travel on the network in the Hastings unit !

 

[bramling]

Ah well, I do regularly enjoy thumper travel on the network in the Hastings unit !

It’s not the same when the train’s full though. The lovely thing about the Uckfield line in particular was that the train would normally be pretty empty. Same with Ashford-Hastings if on a 3-car.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It’s not the same when the train’s full though. The lovely thing about the Uckfield line in particular was that the train would normally be pretty empty. Same with Ashford-Hastings if on a 3-car.

Only time I've used the Marshlink was on a 3-car (IIRC an ungangwayed set with a CEP trailer shoved in the middle) but was the weekend of All Tomorrow's Parties at Camber Sands, so it was pretty crowded then!

 

[Higginsafcb]

North Wales Mainline is more of a big branch line but cracking scenery. Gets me to football if it's a Saturday match at the correct time of day. Just don't mention the late train cattle class 2 car 175 run from Chester.

 

[yorksrob]

It’s not the same when the train’s full though. The lovely thing about the Uckfield line in particular was that the train would normally be pretty empty. Same with Ashford-Hastings if on a 3-car.

Yes, the Marshlink was rarely overly busy in those days. It's not as enjoyable squashed on a 2-carriage.

Only time I've used the Marshlink was on a 3-car (IIRC an ungangwayed set with a CEP trailer shoved in the middle) but was the weekend of All Tomorrow's Parties at Camber Sands, so it was pretty crowded then!

It would have been gangwayed if it included a CEP carriage.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, the Marshlink was rarely overly busy in those days. It's not as enjoyable squashed on a 2-carriage.



It would have been gangwayed if it included a CEP carriage.

My memory is of dragging my friends to sit in the driving motor, which had a blank wall at the end, rather than a CEP car which to an enthusiast living in Surbiton in 2003 was a bit dull... though unless something was lashed up temporarily, with the doors at the ends of the trailer locked, then I may be confusing different memories together from the journey out and back.

 

[yorksrob]

My memory is of dragging my friends to sit in the driving motor, which had a blank wall at the end, rather than a CEP car which to an enthusiast living in Surbiton in 2003 was a bit dull... though unless something was lashed up temporarily, with the doors at the ends of the trailer locked, then I may be confusing different memories together from the journey out and back.

I agree with you, the CEP's were a bit boring to an Ashford lad like myself, so I always went for a true DEMU carriage (I still tend to avoid the one in the Hastings set). Incidentally, I read somewhere that one of those CEP trailers was the only carriage to have been in regular service as part of a steam train, EMU and DEMU at various times.

It's possible they could have bunged a spare motor coach on it I suppose. I once had a loco hauled phase 2 CIG on the route !

 

[Swanage98]

SWML Near Bournemouth back in the day VEPs,CIGs,BEPs,CEPs,REPS with TCs, 73's 33's 47's 58's 60's 59's 66's Wessies, HSTs I thought we were fairly blessed back then. Its all Desiros and Vomiters now. Still nice ride through the Forest thou, good Connections at Southampton and Basingstoke, Not to shabby going to Weymouth good frequnecy now compared to the past. then of course Clapham and Waterloo!!!! The highlight of the line has to be the Battledown flyover and Worting junction, with a Up fast crossing onto the centre up fast just past the flyover! I know the exact moment we cross over now to the second how sad is that? Still prefer the WCML however!