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Naming ideas for ScotRail HSTs

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Mag_seven

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... you do realise I wasn't really suggesting to name them after the SNP MPs, right? :?

Of course I knew you were joking - but there is a serious point here- would Scotland be getting these power cars if Scotland was independent? One of the benefits of the Union is we can have a UK single national rail network and cascade stock easily between the constituent nations. :D
 
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edwin_m

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There doesn't have to be a political connection for stock to be transferred between railways with compatible technical standards. For example some redundant 3'6" DMUs were sold by Perth to Auckland a few years ago - that's not Perth in Scotland or Bishop Auckland in England...
 

me123

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Of course I knew you were joking - but there is a serious point here- would Scotland be getting these power cars if Scotland was independent? One of the benefits of the Union is we can have a UK single national rail network and cascade stock easily between the constituent nations. :D

... given that no-one else seems to want the HSTs*, then I don't see why we wouldn't get them? Scotrail is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so it's not as if this is an internal Westminster thing. Perhaps the procurement would be a bit more convoluted, but there's no real reason why rolling stock couldn't move across the border. After all, BR did export the 141s to Iran; even with independence moving rolling stock from a Scottish to an English depot (or vice versa) is surely easier than that.

Let's not start a serious independence discussion on this part of the forum, though. There's a whole thread for that elsewhere.

*Enthusiasts aside
 

xotGD

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Of course I knew you were joking - but there is a serious point here- would Scotland be getting these power cars if Scotland was independent? One of the benefits of the Union is we can have a UK single national rail network and cascade stock easily between the constituent nations. :D

An independent Scotland might get new build Class 68s and Mark 5s instead of English cast-offs.
 

jingsmonty

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I would happily add the Black Watch but they are now the 3rd battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and it would surely have to be the parent regiment used as a name to be fair.

We haven't, sadly, got enough names for:

  • Royal Scots Borderers
  • Royal Highland Fusiliers
  • The Black Watch
  • The Highlanders (Seaforth, Gordons and Camerons)
  • The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
  • The 52nd Lowland Regiment (TA)
  • The 51st Highland Volunteers (TA)

We will need all those Deltic names back at this rate ;)
Great suggestions, although as far as literary figures go, I would nominate the late, great Iain Banks as well (perhaps instead of J K Rowling - not a fan, but thats just me...).
Regimental names would be good - would love to see 51st Highland volunteers on but could just use the Royal Regiment of Scotland, to reflect the modern era?
 

jingsmonty

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Of course I knew you were joking - but there is a serious point here- would Scotland be getting these power cars if Scotland was independent? One of the benefits of the Union is we can have a UK single national rail network and cascade stock easily between the constituent nations. :D
Oh please! What about the class 86/87 locos exported to eastern Europe - one of the benefits of EU membership...and an hst derivative runs Down Under...
 

sonorguy

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Oh please! What about the class 86/87 locos exported to eastern Europe - one of the benefits of EU membership...and an hst derivative runs Down Under...

That would be sold to Eastern Europe and an HST variant sold (in design terms) to Australia. Not just transferred....
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Some I would like to add to previous suggestions:

Partick Thistle FC - Pride of Glasgow (the neutral team in the city)
Mary Barbour (consciencious objector during WW1)
Ronald "Bon" Scott 1947-1980 (former vocalist in AC/DC born in Kirriemuir)
Anne Begg (former MP who was the first wheelchair bound person elected to Westminster)

In regards to the "City of ..." nameplates, I would be wary of re-using "City of Glasgow" due to that coincidentally being the name of 390033 that was involved in the Grayrigg derailment in 2007. For those that are superstitious, it is deemed unlucky to re-use a name that has previously been involved on an accident.
 

Bletchleyite

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An independent Scotland might get new build Class 68s and Mark 5s instead of English cast-offs.

If it isn't able to remain in the EU, an independent Scotland is likely to be closing half its network and thankful for any English hand-me-downs it can get for next to nothing...
 

Clansman

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Partick Thistle FC - Pride of Glasgow St. Johnstone FC - Pride of Perthshire (Best team in Tayside)

Fixed that for you :D

On a serious note, I'd like to add some more suggestions;

Scone Palace - Original Home of the Stone of Destiny
Perth - The Fair City
CHAS - Children's Hospice Association Scotland
Queensferry Crossing - Crowning 3 centuries of innovation

Have to agree with most of DarloRich's selections, well chosen.
 
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me123

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How about

Jack
Victor
Isa
Winston
Tam
Boabby
Navid
Meena
Methadone Mick...
 

Mag_seven

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In regards to the "City of ..." nameplates, I would be wary of re-using "City of Glasgow" due to that coincidentally being the name of 390033 that was involved in the Grayrigg derailment in 2007. For those that are superstitious, it is deemed unlucky to re-use a name that has previously been involved on an accident.

Well if we are going to let superstition dictate policy we may as well all give up and go home.
 

shredder1

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Scottish Mountains for me, plenty to go at.


Ben Nevis (1344m)
Ben Macdui (1309m)
Braeriach (1296m)
Cairn Toul (1291m)
Sgor an Lochain Uaine (1258m)
Cairn Gorm (1244m)
Aonach Beag (Nevis) (1234m)
Aonach Mor (1221m)
Carn Mor Dearg (1220m)
Ben Lawers (1214m)

Beinn a'Bhuird (1197m)
Carn Eighe (1183m)
Beinn Mheadhoin (1182m)
Mam Sodhail (1181m)
Stob Choire Claurigh (1177m)
Ben More (Crianlarich) (1174m)
Ben Avon (1171m)
Stob Binnein (1165m)
Beinn Bhrotain (1157m)
Lochnagar (Cac Carn Beag) (1155m)

Derry Cairngorm (1155m)
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan (1151m)
Bidean nam Bian (1150m)
Sgurr na Lapaich (1150m)
Ben Alder (1148m)
Geal-Charn (Alder) (1132m)
Ben Lui (1130m)
Binnein Mor (1130m)
An Riabhachan (1129m)
Creag Meagaidh (1128m)
 

dubscottie

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I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) heritage/ culture
2) tourism
3) places
4) people
5) responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)

Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole prposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign would be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel. However limiting the names to the above routes means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes.

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

It may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services. There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy!

1 Edinburgh Castle
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood ( got to keep the politicos on side!)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Burrell Collection
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Glasgow School of Art
11 The Cathedral of Saint Mungo
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 HM Queen Elizabeth II – Scotland’s Queen (Perhaps after independence!)
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots ( I KNOW we already have this name on a 37 but still…….)
28 Flora MacDonald (instead of Culloden as it might not go down well!)
29 Duke OF Edinburgh
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – hint Nicola)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 SSE ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway


Fire away ;)

Big problem with No 14. The current Queen is Queen Elizabeth the first of Scotland.

That's why you don't see E II R on post boxes in Scotland. Even a few of the class 325 had different versions of the crown.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Well if we are going to let superstition dictate policy we may as well all give up and go home.

City of Glasgow was the Stanier Duchess Pacific that was involved in the Harrow & Wealdstone disaster in 1952. Read into that what you will...
 

DarloRich

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Big problem with No 14. The current Queen is Queen Elizabeth the first of Scotland.

That's why you don't see E II R on post boxes in Scotland. Even a few of the class 325 had different versions of the crown.

You are quite right! Take it out along with the Duke of Endinburgh and we get one name space for the Royal Regiment of Scotland and a blank space - any ideas!
 

DarloRich

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Scottish Mountains for me, plenty to go at.


Ben Nevis (1344m)
Ben Macdui (1309m)
etc

How many of those are on the routes that will be served by the Scotrail HST? If we can have any old Scottish names we can go for the full lochs, glens, highlands and islands treatment ;)
 
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jingsmonty

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Big problem with No 14. The current Queen is Queen Elizabeth the first of Scotland.

That's why you don't see E II R on post boxes in Scotland. Even a few of the class 325 had different versions of the crown.
Great suggestions there - would suggest that we stay away from current members of the Royal family as they have their names on plenty of things already (the QE univercity hospital, for example). Also, no JK Rowling as she isn't Scottish (someone else I think pointed this out) - Iain Banks would be my choice - much more worthy in my humble opinion!
Some of the scenic unit 158s could carry names as well (although a few of the Inverness units do already), some of the suggestions may be more relevant to those units rather than hst power cars.

Also, DEFINETLY NO current polititicians! Been said already...
 

Townsend Hook

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City of Glasgow was the Stanier Duchess Pacific that was involved in the Harrow & Wealdstone disaster in 1952. Read into that what you will...

Yes, clearly the reason that those defective points in Grayrigg were not inspected is because the name of a Pendolino was the same as a loco involved in an accident half a century before.
 

DarloRich

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Great suggestions there - would suggest that we stay away from current members of the Royal family as they have their names on plenty of things already (the QE univercity hospital, for example). Also, no JK Rowling as she isn't Scottish (someone else I think pointed this out) - Iain Banks would be my choice - much more worthy in my humble opinion!
Some of the scenic unit 158s could carry names as well (although a few of the Inverness units do already), some of the suggestions may be more relevant to those units rather than hst power cars.

Also, DEFINETLY NO current polititicians! Been said already...

Can Ian Banks attend the naming ceremony and guarantee free publicity via column inches? I would suspect many people (especially US/foregin tourists) might assume Rowling to be Scottish. I think i must have done. She is certainly associated with Edinburgh. That's why I chose the living authors I did. ( Plus i like the Rebus series ;) )

BTW Bonnie Prince Charlie was born in Rome and i don't see many people rejecting him as an important scottish historical figure...........
 

Altnabreac

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Can Ian Banks attend the naming ceremony and guarantee free publicity via column inches? I would suspect many people (especially US/foregin tourists) might assume Rowling to be Scottish. I think i must have done. She is certainly associated with Edinburgh. That's why I chose the living authors I did. ( Plus i like the Rebus series ;) )

BTW Bonnie Prince Charlie was born in Rome and i don't see many people rejecting him as an important scottish historical figure...........

Well it would generate publicity if he managed to turn up:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jun/09/iain-banks-dies-59-cancer
 

Altnabreac

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Yes, we shouldn't name a power car after one of Scotland's greatest authors as he had the hard neck to die...hardly his fault he passed away at 59 with terminal cancer

Is that what I said? No so don't suggest I did say that.

I was pointing out that he had died so shouldn't be considered in a which living author can generate most publicity at a naming ceremony debate.

Also JK Rowling is Scottish. She lives in Scotland so she is a Scot, same as I am despite not having been born here. In her words:
By residence, marriage, and out of gratitude for what this country has given me, my allegiance is wholly to Scotland

But in general my view would be not to name vehicles after living people so I'd prefer Iain Banks to get the nod if we want down the authors route for names.
 
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