Nantwich-Market Drayton-Wellington line

[Philip]

If this line had remained open, could it have seen modern day use as the route for the Cross Country services from Manchester? It would have meant trains not having to use the slow route through Macclesfield, Harecastle and Stone; a lot more capacity through Stafford for London services and WCML Birmingham services and thus possibly not having to rebuild Norton Bridge Junction. Being a rural line I suppose it was obvious for the chop at the time, but could this have proven a useful through route between Manchester and Birmingham? I wouldn't have thought the mileage to be much more than the current route, if at all.

 

[A0wen]

If this line had remained open, could it have seen modern day use as the route for the Cross Country services from Manchester? It would have meant trains not having to use the slow route through Macclesfield, Harecastle and Stone; a lot more capacity through Stafford for London services and WCML Birmingham services and thus possibly not having to rebuild Norton Bridge Junction. Being a rural line I suppose it was obvious for the chop at the time, but could this have proven a useful through route between Manchester and Birmingham? I wouldn't have thought the mileage to be much more than the current route, if at all.

But would have meant dropping Macclesfield, Stoke and Stafford as stops - which are more significant that Crewe and Telford (which are the only two largish places on that route).

Looking at a map - I reckon it would easily add 20 miles to the journey (Wolverhampton - Wellington is about 20 miles) and currently trains between those stations take about 20 mins. I very much doubt the rest of the route would have been quick enough to offset that extra mileage.

 

[Senex]

I remember using that route in the Pines Express. At one time that train took two portions from Manchester, the main train for Bournemouth and coaches for Birmingham New Street. The timings were such that you could travel in the New Street coaches as far as Wolverhampton High Level and then have very comfortable time to cross over to the Low Level station and pick up the main train that had made its detour through Market Drayton.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Market Drayton line was a cheaply built GWR line with many level crossings and tiny halts, much like the Severn Valley line, only double.
I too used it once on the Pines Express c1963.
It only went this way because the LNWR route via Stafford was being electrified.

The upgraded North Stafford line is not at all slow, bar the junction at Stone (the Market Drayton route had slow junctions at Wellington and Nantwich).
XC could go faster on the NS route if they bothered to use tilt as they once did with Virgin.
HS2 will also alter the route options.

 

[Senex]

It only went this way because the LNWR route via Stafford was being electrified.
The upgraded North Stafford line is not at all slow, bar the junction at Stone (the Market Drayton route had slow junctions at Wellington and Nantwich).

I thought the reason for going first via Market Drayton and then via Shrewsbury was to get to the GW main line, as Bushbury Jn with the GW wasn't available at the time.
The NS certainly isn't slow, but it has far too many restrictions lower than (what I'd still call) line-speed for it to be a genuinely fast line. It's interesting that if it had been beuilt to the origin al plans for a route via Stoke it would have been very much better ...

 

[Philip]

The Market Drayton line was a cheaply built GWR line with many level crossings and tiny halts, much like the Severn Valley line, only double.
I too used it once on the Pines Express c1963.
It only went this way because the LNWR route via Stafford was being electrified.

The upgraded North Stafford line is not at all slow, bar the junction at Stone (the Market Drayton route had slow junctions at Wellington and Nantwich).
XC could go faster on the NS route if they bothered to use tilt as they once did with Virgin.
HS2 will also alter the route options.

Put that way it doesn't seem like it would've worked well, if the line speed had remained low. What was the top speed on the Market Drayton line before it closed?

I know parts of the North Staffs are fast, but it's not just Stone that has a slow section - the train always crawls through Macclesfield and the new line around Harecastle hill isn't very fast. A little off topic but it seems a bit odd to have all services through Stoke station stopping there, perhaps things could be sped up a bit here.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Put that way it doesn't seem like it would've worked well, if the line speed had remained low. What was the top speed on the Market Drayton line before it closed?

I know parts of the North Staffs are fast, but it's not just Stone that has a slow section - the train always crawls through Macclesfield and the new line around Harecastle hill isn't very fast. A little off topic but it seems a bit odd to have all services through Stoke station stopping there, perhaps things could be sped up a bit here.

Have you looked at the population of Stoke? Bigger than Wolverhampton, for instance, where everything also stops.
If the NS line is "slow", why is it the prime route from Manchester to London?
The biggest bottleneck on the Birmingham route has been completely eliminated by the Norton Bridge flyover.
The future fast route from Manchester to Birmingham will be HS2 (missing all the stations mentioned!).
I don't know about the Market Drayton line speed, but my guess would be around 60mph.
It's traffic was local stoppers, GW freight and the odd mail/parcels service, I think.
The Stoke-Market Drayton branch just added locals and freight to the southern section.
There was milk traffic to a creamery en route.
The Bushbury connection between WR and LMR was also in use at the time, I remember a Snow Hill-Stoke-Manchester service routed that way while the Stour Valley line was being electrified.

 

[Altfish]

When the Hodnet by-pass was built I was involved in the knocking down of one of the over bridges. And IIRC we severed the line at one point.

 

[Senex]

The Bushbury connection between WR and LMR was also in use at the time, I remember a Snow Hill-Stoke-Manchester service routed that way while the Stour Valley line was being electrified.

The 1960 Sectional Appendix shews no running-junction connection with the Western at Bushbury. The Pines was diverted via Market Drayton in the winter timetable 1962. There were certainly the diversions you mention in May 1965 and again in January 1966. I have a vague memory of reading that the lines from Cannock Road Jn towards the LNW line were being used at the beginning of the 60s for wagon storage. Can anyone provide any more information?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 1960 Sectional Appendix shews no running-junction connection with the Western at Bushbury. The Pines was diverted via Market Drayton in the winter timetable 1962. There were certainly the diversions you mention in May 1965 and again in January 1966. I have a vague memory of reading that the lines from Cannock Road Jn towards the LNW line were being used at the beginning of the 60s for wagon storage. Can anyone provide any more information?

Isn't that the Victoria Basin branch (which is now the main route from Wolves HL to Oxley and Shrewsbury)?
I seem to remember the Cannock Rd Jn-Bushbury link was used regularly by the royal train to get from GW to LNW metals.
My GWR atlas (1947) does show a through line from LL to Bushbury (but not from HL to the Victoria Basin branch).
It also shows a former name of the junction at Bushbury as Snow Hill Jn.