Flying Snail
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Dec 2006
- Messages
- 1,638
It got the extension after Ulsterbus Stranraer lost the contract so that seems the logical reason.
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National Express Coaches Discussion
- Thread starter cnjb8
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It got the extension after Ulsterbus Stranraer lost the contract so that seems the logical reason.
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RailUK Forums
Smethwickian
Member
Don't really want the faff of catering for lots of short-hop passengers. Not registering means legs can be dropped or coaches can miss stops - in the event of late-running or other problems - if no-one is booked. Or an operator can often request network control permission to terminate short if the coach is empty, and no-one is due to be picked up, at the penultimate stop.
Basically, more of the crumbling edge of quality for local transport.
For example the London > Swanage goes via Bournemouth. If on arrival at Bournemouth, there are no passengers for Swanage the service is terminated at Bmth. Saves 45 odd miles of fuel consumption etc.
Not really. If there was demand for a bus from Leeds to Wakefield after midnight, the local operator should run it, not a long distance coach company with limited capacity. Coaches generally run on an 'advance purchase' basis now anyway.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
This is exactly the reason.
What is closer to NX's role? Should they be selling tickets for Leeds and other towns/cities to London, or providing a late night option for people who've enjoyed the fleshpots of Leeds of an evening and want to get to Wakefield?
Some services had extensive registered sections and did act as the long bus service (the Edinburgh to Newcastle routes through the Borders spring to mind) but they were often more hassle than they were worth.
Oh please, you know it doesn't work like that !
Short distance travellers on the 465 are a nuisance for people who want to sleep!
Well, I was always very quiet, but even then, there are a lack of evening connections from Leeds to the Wakefield area.
The N10 night bus used to be well used, but disappeared during covid, never to be seen again
Well, someone ought to be providing that service.
Seems the disallowed trips on the 465 are Leeds to Wakefield, Barnsley to Meadowhall / Sheffield, Sheffield to Chesterfield, Chesterfield to Mansfield and Mansfield to Nottingham - ie any journey to the next stop south of Leeds, but any journey to the second and later stops is fine.
This from the rather interesting way it gets set up in bustimes.
https://bustimes.org/services/465-london-huddersfield
This from the rather interesting way it gets set up in bustimes.
https://bustimes.org/services/465-london-huddersfield
Victoria, London - Huddersfield Town Centre, Huddersfield
| Wakefield, at Cathedral Retail Pk | 00:40 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Huddersfield Bus Station (Stand B) | 23:00 | ||||||
| Halifax Bus Station | 23:20 | ||||||
| Bradford Interchange (Stand 3) | 23:40 | ||||||
| Leeds Dyer Street (Bay 6) | 00:10 | ||||||
| 00:20 | |||||||
| Barnsley Interchange/A23 (A23) | 01:05 | 01:05s | |||||
| Meadowhall Interchange (at) | 01:20s | 01:20 | 01:20s | ||||
| Sheffield Centre Sheffield Interchange/E2 (E2) | 01:35s | 01:35 | 01:35s | ||||
| Chesterfield Coach Station (Bay A) | 02:05s | 02:05s | 02:05 | 02:05s | |||
| Mansfield Bus Station (Bay A) | 02:25s | 02:25s | 02:25s | 02:25 | 02:25s | ||
| Nottingham Broad Marsh Bus Station (Bay 10) | 03:00 | 03:00s | 03:00s | 03:00s | 03:00s | ||
| Golders Green (Stop GE) | 05:50s | 05:50s | 05:50s | 05:50s | 05:50s | 05:50 | 05:50s |
| Marble Arch (->S) | 06:10s | 06:10s | 06:10s | 06:10s | 06:10s | 06:10s | |
| London Victoria Coach Station Arrivals (->W) | 06:20 | 06:20 | 06:20 | 06:20 | 06:20 | 06:20 | 06:20 |
They have had all sorts of roles. I've often used National Express for short hops, including middle of the night trips. Most of the shorter journey opportunities I used to do have now disappeared. Most don't have enough use (certainly without advertising) for a local operator to provide those trips.
There used to be several overnight trips between Leeds and Bradford in both directions, between Cambridge and local villages to Hitchin at 0100 and 0300 and much of the Sunday service between High Wycombe and Stokenchurch.
I see, would wonder how many used that service from Ayrshire. Forgot about that thread. Makes interesting reading as the services have changed. The 594 from Edinburgh operates down the M6 now.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Surely the railway as they provide the majority of fast links between Leeds and Wakey?
You'd have thought so !
tbtc
Veteran Member
Do your two facts above not tell their own story?
You’ve said yourself that it wasn’t busy, and that the Arriva service between the cities wasn’t viable either
But, as with threads about reopening rural branch lines, you take the fact that a market is too small to sustain a commercial minibus as a reason for a more expensive “solution”
I’d typed out a longer reply to the other points that was lost when the old thread was removed but essentially..
1. National Express need to run commercially viable services in a market dominated by subsidised trains, so have to target some places (e.g. Mirfield) that have no trains, or extend London services to places with no direct London trains (e.g. Rochdale, Accrington)
2. If you insist on London to West Yorkshire services to divert into places like Mirfield, even though there are no passengers on board wanting to get off there, then you’re delaying all passengers on board just in case someone wanted to use a long distance coach for a trip from Mirfield to Dewsbury… similarly, if you’re insisting that an empty coach runs all the way to Rochdale then you’re threatening the viability of a route that doesn’t get the subsidy that the trains do
3. By making routes “set down only” like this, it means you aren’t diverting off the motorway for no reason but also it allows busy services to segregate passengers, e.g. a service from the south/ midlands might serve Leeds on its way to terminating at Bradford, but (if you’re not worrying about Leeds to Bradford passengers) you might run over coach into Leeds add a separate one to Bradford so that those passengers get home a lot sooner than going into and back out of central Leeds - why waste diesel having two coaches follow each other via Leeds to Bradford?
I guess that of you’re heading back to a depot then it’s worth serving Ayr/ Kilmarnock if there’s just a couple of people from Ayrshire who’d prefer a direct coach via a slow route (Stranraer) to having to travel into Glasgow- marginal costs etc
No, I never said the N10 was quiet. It was well used when I was on it.
I merely mentioned that I was quiet on the National Express to Wakefield
markymark2000
On Moderation
It's not a good layout but it is at the same time. National Express has put it in to stop journey planners giving people journeys that they can't take.
As for the Leeds to Wakefield service, if you wanted to risk it, you could get a Leeds to Barnsley ticket. As long as the drivers don't ask NX Control to bypass Wakefield for some reason, no driver is going to refuse to let you off the bus at a stop. They will say that they are not meant to, but they can't stop you. Passengers get off early all of the time. If you're going to do it though, preferably only have hand luggage else it could cause them issues as they load the lockers in a certain way.
Last edited by a moderator:
Only services to Ipswich have come back and all via Stansted. Was there a service along the A12?
They could well bypass Wakefield if no one is booked to board.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Unless the bus is full, or quite delayed, they should serve all stops because people can buy tickets onboard. While not liked by drivers, it is possible to do. Tickets can also be bought for a service up until around 10 minutes prior to departure online.
Maybe the trick is to buy a single from Leeds to Sheffield and another from Wakefield to Sheffield.
markymark2000
On Moderation
At which point, it may not be much different to paying for a taxi
CBlue
Member
Don't think Southend ever had a National Express service and really can't see it ever having one when you consider how quick the train is to London.
Up to around 2015, there used to be Southend to Birmingham via Chelmsford, Stanstead, Cambridge service. I think it went on to Liverpool too.
At one time the Southend - Liverpool called in at Bishops Stortford and not Stansted Airport which seemed a bit bizarre to me.
M803UYA
Member
When I worked in a bus station travel office (2005) we sold National Express tickets. Drivers at the time refused to sell tickets to intending passengers, instead directing them to the travel office. The advent of the smartphone presumably means most travelling have prebooked and there would be very little walk up trade?
Yes, Essex and Hertfordshire coaches had some very intriguing calling points.
Teflon988
Member
Southend used to have a NX 305 daily service from there via Chelmsford and Stansted Airport,then onto Cambridge and continuing via St Neots,Bedford, Northampton,Coventry Birmingham Airport and Birmingham and Liverpool
Also IIRC at some point there was a Commuter service to London 090 from Southend.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Service cars do not skip any stops unless it is unavailable, such as a road accident and then it’s rare. Dupes can.